Difference between revisions of "User talk:Djonni"

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Tags: mobile edit mobile web edit
(→‎Picture troubles: Fixed! 😊)
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You'll also note, if you're a little experienced in how the wiki works, that my page is not in the <tt>User:</tt> namespace. This is on purpose &mdash; I'm perfectly happy for others to <span class="plainlinks">[http://wiki.godvillegame.com/index.php?title=Djonni&action=edit make changes]</span> to my page. If I have a problem with it I'll just undo the edit, just like any other page. And if for whatever reason I'm not around, then it doesn't really matter anyway!
You'll also note, if you're a little experienced in how the wiki works, that my page is not in the <tt>User:</tt> namespace. This is on purpose &mdash; I'm perfectly happy for others to <span class="plainlinks">[http://wiki.godvillegame.com/index.php?title=Djonni&action=edit make changes]</span> to my page. If I have a problem with it I'll just undo the edit, just like any other page. And if for whatever reason I'm not around, then it doesn't really matter anyway!
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I tried adding a picture to [[12th step]], but it showed up double with some random text on the side. Any explanation? What an I doing wrong?  
I tried adding a picture to [[12th step]], but it showed up double with some random text on the side. Any explanation? What an I doing wrong?  
--[[User:His portliness|His portliness]] ([[User talk:His portliness|talk]]) 09:00, 12 October 2020 (UTC)
--[[User:His portliness|His portliness]] ([[User talk:His portliness|talk]]) 09:00, 12 October 2020 (UTC)
: I fixed it for you in [https://wiki.godvillegame.com/index.php?title=12th_step&type=revision&diff=121539&oldid=121536 this edit.] The infoboxes take care of the formatting of the picture so that it's consistent, and as hard as possible for people to screw up mobile views (you'd be surprised how easy this is to do, and even with the infoboxes we still have users who struggle when using mobile devices with narrow screens like iPhones<=5ish generation).
: So the template wants ''just the image name'', and none of the <code><nowiki>[[File:...|stuff]]</nowiki></code>, or the formatting and display happens twice with some junk, as you discovered. 😊 Without access under the hood of the wiki code, which no players have (nor are likely to get any time soon), there's not way around this, I'm afraid. -- [[User:Djonni|Djonni]] ([[User talk:Djonni|talk]]) 09:17, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

Revision as of 09:17, 12 October 2020

Ralph wave.gif

Hi, friend or stranger! You've found your way to my Talk page. I'm GodDjonni , and this is one of the ways you can get in touch with me about anything game or wiki related. If you leave me a note here, I'll reply here. You can click here to start a conversation with me about a new topic below. If you prefer you're also welcome to add me as a friend in the game and message me directly there. I'll reply equally promptly to either.

You'll also note, if you're a little experienced in how the wiki works, that my page is not in the User: namespace. This is on purpose — I'm perfectly happy for others to make changes to my page. If I have a problem with it I'll just undo the edit, just like any other page. And if for whatever reason I'm not around, then it doesn't really matter anyway!

This page has an archive

Old and/or inactive discussions have been moved to the /Archive subpage.

(Actually I'm a bit late, but close enough...)

🎶 Twenty, twenty, twenty-four hours to go... 🎵 (Note: Offsite link)

...This also serves as a demonstration of the easily-abused power of class="plainlinks", which I shall now apply to the wiki-local URL links in the hatnotes and JanuWiki 2019 article. (Dunno why I didn't think of this before.) -- FeRDNYC (talk) 23:08, 30 December 2018 (UTC)

JanuWiki side job progress

A question that occurred to me, regarding side job progress — how can "best five" contests have _progress_? The judging can't take place until the end of the event, at which point it goes from 0% to 100% pretty much instantly. -- FeRDNYC (talk) 00:38, 4 January 2019 (UTC)

I see your point... I added a heading "Side job candidate articles" to each, and may scrap the "Progress" {{diaryquest}}s, but I wanted to give your new |side= formatting an airing ;) -- Djonni (talk) 22:53, 4 January 2019 (UTC)

bullet-wrap not working in {{Navbox list}}

Hey, it looks like {{Navbox list|bullet-wrap=yes}} isn't working — I pulled the list transclusion for the JanuWiki navbox quests into Special:ExpandTemplates and the generated output is identical with or without the bullet-wrap param. (Here's the code I tested:)

{{Navbox list|bullet=🍻|bullet-wrap=yes
| [[Brew a storm in a teacup]]
| [[Deliver some sour gnomish beer to the dark elves]]
| [[Find out how to turn a golden brick into a pint of beer]]
| [[Sing all of “99 bottles of beer on the wall!”]]
| [[Sit in a tavern and write fake diary entries]] <span style{{=}}"font-size: x-small; display: inline-block; vertical-align: middle;">✔</span>

Ideally what I'd like to be able to do, is tell it to format the items without the white-space:nowrap, but still tie the bullets themselves to the item they follow with a non-breaking space before them. It wasn't entirely clear to me whether that was possible (or supposed to be possible) with the template, and certainly "|bullet-wrap=yes" sounds like a strange way to express that sort of thing if it is. But the syntax is unimportant right now, the question of if/how is what matters.

...Anyway, as a result of the big, nowrap-styled quest titles, the JanuWiki navbox is formatting way too wide on mobile and sticking off the edge of the screen. Think you could take a look when you have a moment? Thx!

Oh, totally unrelated to this, and of absolutely no urgency whatsoever, but See Also: my idea at Template talk:Navbox list when you've got a few moments (which might not be until February, and totally understandable if that's the case). -- FeRDNYC (talk) 10:36, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

Yeah, I noticed you added |bullet-wrap=yes to {{Navbox JanuWiki 2019}}, and it reminded me that the semantics of the two wrapping options at {{Navbox}} isn't great is terrible.
I had the "clever" idea of making Template:Navbox list/Space hold a space character — the idea being, if we decided to replace every &#32; space in every navbox list with a &thinsp;, or &ensp;, or whatever, we just change that one thing. In retrospect that's not easier than simply coding the space into the template, so I might rewrite it a bit, since that makes it difficult for me to do the behaviour you've described without mediawikiwiki:Module:String installed. But as I'm typing this a possibility occurs to me...
Would this achieve the expected behaviour? [[Long multi-word navbox list item]]<span style="white-space: nowrap;"> •</span> [[Next long link]] 🤔 I'll have to have a bit of a play with that.
I also saw your suggestion at Template talk:Navbox list, which I'll answer over there... apologies for reading without acknowledging. I've thought about it though, and my conclusion is that (even though it would be a bit of work to overhaul now) having {{Navbox list}} apply wiki-linking to the entries is not only obvious, but always should have been the default behaviour. More over there.
Soooo yeah, that might wait until after JanuWiki 😅 but in order to make the quests in the JanuWiki navbox more functional I'll work on that, uh... soon. -- Djonni (talk) 16:41, 7 January 2019 (UTC)
And no, [[Long multi-word navbox list item]]<span style="white-space: nowrap;"> •</span> [[Next long link]] doesn't seem to behave as I'd hoped, the bullet wraps as if the <span>...</span> isn't there. Back to the drawing board. I think I'll just have to drop support for |space= and simply hard-code the spaces. -- Djonni (talk) 17:08, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

JanuWiki 2019 post-mortem

Hi Djonni, I'm FeRDNYC. With JanuWiki 2019 wrapped up, we're having a post-mortem discussion over at its talk page to get a handle on what worked, what didn't, and what lessons we can learn for future events. As a participant in the event, your insights would be invaluable. We'd love it if you could share any feedback you might have. Feel free to join us at Talk:JanuWiki 2019! -- FeRDNYC (talk) 23:08, 23 February 2019 (UTC)

Hello from Lelotif

Sorry to appear like this but I wanted to say thank you for polishing my Demotivational Speaker page. That monster was the first of many monsters I wanted to bring to life but lacked the level. And, if you don't mind, could you teach me how to upload images? I made one for my Frost Mite. Again, thank you and sorry to intrude. --Lelotif (talk) 19:33, 29 August 2019 (UTC)

Hey there! Hope you don't mind that I moved this here, a User talk: page (like this one) is where these conversations traditionally happen. Your User talk:Lelotif page will be where other wiki users are likely to leave any notes for you. :)
And you're very welcome, I enjoyed both Demotivational Speaker and Frost Mite! I was a touch distracted today so I hope my edits were good and my summaries weren't too brusque, heh.
And I'm delighted to help with pictures, or anything at all. There's a bit on pictures in the Creators Manual, which should be in decent shape... I haven't logged at it in a while but I know WardPhoenix have the guidelines a lot of love recently so they've been in good hands!
For Frost Mite, though, I've made it especially easy for you by popping a blank {{monster}} template on there ready to fill in. If you open the Frost Mite page for editing, you'll find the parameters of the monster template at the top ready to fill in. Replace the text that says <!--An image filename (e.g. Example_picture_name.jpg). If the filename doesn't exist, this gives you a link to upload it. --> with a suitable filename — say, frost-mite.jpg, or whatever — then save the changes. Where the default picture was in the monster template you'll now have a clickable link that will take you straight to the right place to upload the file. Tahdah!
If you have any trouble or questions, add me and I'll talk you through it, or reply here, or leave a note on Help:Requests, or ask anyone whose name appears in Special:RecentChanges regularly making the kind of edits you want to ask about (everyone's pretty friendly around here) 😊
And most of all, keep it up and have fun making creative, interesting, and funny content for the entire game community (and beyond) to enjoy. Personally, I know that contributing to and reading the wiki has expanded what I get out of (and put into) Godville in immeasurable ways. --Djonni (talk) 20:58, 29 August 2019 (UTC)

My Godwiki Page

Howdy, I'm The Quantus, I've kinda just made my Godwiki page.

To be honest I think it's pretty good, content-wise at least.

Was hoping you'd cast an eye over it. Edit away if you have time. Give me advice if you've less time. Tell me it's wrong if you have no time, but could you tell my why it's wrong if that's the case 😊

I'd kinda like it to be perfect!

Cheers in advance!

The Quantus — Preceding comment added by The Quantus (talkcontribs) 8 September 2019‎

Hi there The Quantus! I moved your nice comment here to my proper User talk:Djonni page, as Talk:Djonni is supposed to only be a redirect page to here. :)
Now, to your question. I'm definitely happy to take a look at your page, and have tried now twice to do so and keep getting interrupted. So, this is me saying I'll absolutely take a look, as soon as I have 15 uninterrupted minutes... Promise!
(P.S. If you end your talk page messages with this: -- ~~~~ it will come out looking like this:) -- Djonni (talk) 16:28, 8 September 2019 (UTC)
Thanks, this really is my first wiki edit experience. Just booted up the old laptop, as i'm mainly a windows mobile user. I know! And yeah... i understand none of the code side i'm seeing apart from kinda the code/codenowiki/nowiki stuff, or if i'm replying properly. To be honest this is also a test message as well as a thank you. -- The Quantus (talk) 18:31, 8 September 2019 (UTC)
Your replies are fine! You might notice that adding a : at the very start of a line indents it one level. It's customary to indent a reply one level below what you're replying to, so it's much easier for readers to follow a thread. Otherwise, you're good. :)
As for the code and nowiki stuff... <code>text</code> just formats a span of text like this to distinguish it metatextually as some kind of code, symbol, or keyboard input. The <nowiki>something here</nowiki> indicates to the wiki software that something here is not to be interpreted as code of any kind (wiki, html, or otherwise) and is to be printed to the page exactly as it is. Sometimes you'll see it as <nowiki /> with no content for fancy reasons of tricking the wiki software into behaving some specific way, or tricking it into not recognising something (like, for example, if I actually want the first character in the line to be a :, I could do <nowiki />: or <nowiki>:</nowiki>, whichever I like.). You're not likely to need that unless for some reason you decide to get right into the deep nuts and bolts of some of the more complex templates. (A template, by the way, is {{one of these}}. You are using the {{usergod}} template on your user page, for example.)
To which! Your user page. :)
It can be tricky to give feedback on a user's godwiki page, 'cause really, you should be making it into whatever the hell you like! A narrative chronicle (like yours), a temple to your towering ego (like mine), an anal retentive painstaking record of your hero(ine)'s life (like so many are), an absurd self-parody of your quixotic obsessions (like mine), a densely nested collection of in-jokes and mutual admiration (like so many are), any or all of the above in combination and more. It can really be anything you want. I see you've started adding templates and formatting, which is great, and which I was going to suggest after my first glance. You appear to be an old school HTML guy, as I note you're using hard-coded HTML bold and italics tags (<b>...</b> and <i>...</i>) and even *wince* <u>...</u>.
Now... don't get me wrong, it ain't lip service that you can do as you like with your user page. There are some godwiki user pages that are enthusiastic and unabashed monstrosities of design gone wrong. And that's cool, no problem. But there are some pretty good reasons to not use <b>, <i>, or *shudder* <u>. If you're curious and interested, you can do some reading about why (here's a decent brief explanation), but there's a quick guide to formatting text on the Creators Manual § Formatting. Rather than using <b><u>Heading</u></b> for headings, I suggest you use the wikicode that makes it an actual heading:
==The Cautionary Tale of Roderick the Blind==
Which becomes:
The Cautionary Tale of Roderick the Blind
People using bad screens, small screens, or people with vision impairment, or people who simply use screen readers for convenience will thank you for not using manual formatting, and letting the wiki take care of it. And if you do decide to keep expanding your page with more sections, those headers will become the table of contents automagically. The more =s you use, the smaller (lower level) the heading is. More explanation at Creators Manual § Headers.
Now, that's formatting out of the way. I won't give unsolicited input on content, so if you'd like that kind of input then say so and I can do it here or privately. But, suffice to say I enjoyed your origin story so far! It's the kind of story you might actually find in a god's chronicles, which is a feature of the game you may or may not have discovered yet! The Pantheon of Storytelling is the pantheon that recognises the best chronicles on Godville, and you might find reading some of the highly rated chronicles on the 🏆 Storytelling  pantheon a way to spark inspiration for more of your own creativity. I love reading good chronicles, and I'm often amazed at how interesting and funny some of our fellow deities can be.
If you do decide to transplant your writing from your wiki page to your chronicle (found at the bottom of your GodThe Quantus  god page), do note that the formatting there is different again (details found at the bottom of the Hero's Chronicles page). Some people like long chronicles, some like short, so don't try too hard to please the crowds and just put there what you feel is your best contribution! :)
Please don't hesitate to ask for any more input, or any more questions you have. I'm always delighted to help, and it's a good distraction when work's frustrating. ;) -- Djonni (talk) 11:48, 10 September 2019 (UTC)
Additional: Hah! I actually looked, and noticed that that actually is your chronicle, and that it's all nicely formatted over there and everything. Nice! -- Djonni (talk) 11:52, 10 September 2019 (UTC)
Well! I can see why you're on the help list! Damn near perfect response, thank you.
Formatting: No problem on switching, if it suits the more modern :P way of doing things more than happy to learn. Plus it's a page of my very own to mess about on. Good spot on old school! You've no idea! However I'm spotting quite a few similarities. Which is nice, i don't have to travel to far from my pterodactyl. Going to slowly add links (in a wiki fashion) and other flourishes as I find them. One thing i seem to be missing is how to move text down a line without it being either a new paragraph or bullet point of some kind. Would it have to be indented kinda like these chat paragraphs? I'd prefer not, but i could live with it.
The Good Stuff: I've really no problem with grammar, or even style, tips or criticism! Let me know what you think. I'm not done with the page, more sections now need to be added. However let loose on what's there. The middle section of the chronicles part bothers me, seems a bit 'rushed' perhaps more action to balance the introductions and consequences? Or even just a small re-write, flesh it out a bit?
Really looking forward to what you have to say. -- The Quantus (talk) 21:20, 10 September 2019 (UTC)

────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────Hah, well, this is one way your OG HTML [1,2] knowledge will help. The way to make a line break without a new paragraph is the same now as it always was: <br /> :)

(The old <br> will work fine too, just that the semantics of markup require that anything that's opened must be closed. So, a single tag with no content must close itself. Hence, />, making a self-closing tag, like with <nowiki />, and another you'll see used at the bottom of every page with footnotes or references, <references />)

A bit later today (probably) I'll give your page a content read then! I had zero experience with wikis when I started fooling around on here, and was patiently and supportively guided by others who, I'm sad to say, are now mostly inactive. (But such is the nature of Godville, they may return one day. I'm certainly been guilty of taking long unannounced sabaticals, heh.) But we now have a small team of active editors, as well as gnomes and gardeners. We are all friendly and helpful, without exception, and will leave notes on talk pages or tinker with edits where we see a way to improve or advise.

Some little pieces of advice that have given me a deep understanding of the wiki over time, some (or many or all) of which you may already be all over:

  • Keep you eyes on Special:RecentChanges. On mobile, it's in the links at the very bottom of the page. On desktop, it's in the links at the left-hand side. You'll notice that the majority (by far) of edits to the wiki are to guild pages, and then after that probably edits to user pages. Both of those are probably very interesting to you right now, but will quickly become less interesting than all the other edits going on. Edit summaries should give brief explanations, and you can use the history of the page to see precisely what changes are made. (The history function on mobile is terrible and semi-broken, so if you can't figure out what's going on look at it on desktop.)
  • The Godwiki is a plain, run-of-the-mill MediaWiki wiki with very few extensions nor bells 'n whistles beyond the basic set. So, that means that there's a metric butt-tonne of helpful information out there about how a wiki like that works, starting and usually ending with the afore-linked MediaWiki wiki. Want a thorough understanding of image options? mediawikiwiki:Help:Images' gotcha covered. Want the fine detail on how <ref>...</ref> and <references /> work? mediawikiwiki:Extension:Cite, boom. My first strategy when I can't remember or need to learn something about the wiki is the google "mediawiki feature or keyword" and follow whatever is the top result from mediawiki.org or wikipedia.org (in that order of preference).
  • For your user page (and I note you've started tinkering with your guild's page too, great!), the most interesting collection of templates to begin with will be the formatting templates. Each of them is (hopefully) well-documented, and if they aren't, they should be, as they'll be often looked at by wiki newbies who are coming to grips with what all this junk is and how it works. Don't be afraid to look under the hood at the code, though do be afraid to save changes, as they are usually used very widely across the wiki and it would be pretty easy to break a lot of pages, eheh. But if you are looking at an interesting template, like, say, {{Diaryquest}}, and you want to see examples of how it's used in the wild, you can hit "What links here" (LHS on desktop, page bottom on mobile) to see where it's used. (For some templates that will be a VERY long list.)
  • That said... though mucking about with the live versions of very widely used templates is unwise, generally speaking, messing about with pretty much anything on the wiki is pretty safe. Every single edit can be undone with two or three clicks. Simple as that. As long as your tinkering doesn't violate the rules, there's really no way to break the wiki's eggs so much that they can't be unscrambled within seconds. One major caveat to that, however, is your own User page. You are the only person with permission to edit your User page in any way. That's a blessing and a curse, since it's protected from anyone else making changes, which means it's sadly protected from anyone else making changes for you. :) But you always have the option to undo an edit (on desktop, in page history).

🤔 This was just gonna be a quick, short note, and as usual I've gone from short note to extended lecture. Must drink coffee and get ready for work. More anon! -- Djonni (talk) 05:35, 11 September 2019 (UTC)

Hoping my indents are right there <- i toyed with popping lots of :'s </notanemoji></sarcasmcodetoo> on, but you'd reset the 'start point' and i figure - keep it simple? Thanks once again for the response. I got away for the weekend, so mine is a tad delayed. However again you covered everything. I've been looking through the templates and various wiki codes and am getting quite excited.
Whilst I think my page is now pretty much going to be fun content to add now. The topic of my guildpage has caused a touch of discussion in the DA's guild council (great place to hang out btw - guild plugged). One thought was, as it's quite old, and from the original DA members, should we archive it? If the group consensus turns this way, what would the prefered method of doing this be? I'm guessing starting a new page - calling it the DA guild original archive or something (better name needed) and copy pasting all the older data into it?? With appropriate notes and references? I.e. "if you're looking for...."
On the other hand: I'm pushing more for an update, an addition of information rather than a re-start. I'm hoping to incorporate all the info that's there at the moment, maybe smarten it up (i'm enticed by the collapse-able tables). I'm having to wait a little to find out which though. Really hoping its the second though.
Still very much looking forward to a breakdown of my pages content and grammar. Don't feel like you'll offend. Criticism breeds improvement! Plus i'll have something to strive for as i add to it. -- The Quantus (talk) 13:39, 17 September 2019 (UTC)

Article Deletion

I was sure that I'd seen page deletion activity recently. On checking admin contributions though, there is no evidence of this (unless I'm looking in the wrong place). -- S624 (talk) 19:09, 2 October 2019 (UTC)

The place to look would be in Special:Logs, but nobody but the Devs has the permissions for that. You're right that they do delete pages that are somehow a problem — vandalism and spam pages have been removed in the last month or two, and I know that historically pages with inappropriate or copyrighted material have been deleted, if an edit isn't enough. But there are 179 items in Category:Marked for deletion, and since User:Spode became inactive, no user has been granted any administrative rights that would allow them to permanently delete a page.
Which, really, isn't that big a deal. A hypothetical future admin would have a lot of other priorities, like giving the wiki CSS a badly needed upgrade, selectively popping in some useful, low-risk extensions (mediawikiwiki:Extension:Thanks, Scalable Vector Graphics support, etc etc etc...), fixing some of the, erm... quirks of image cache timeouts, and a bunch of other under-the-hood stuff. And honestly, we manage okay without a user admin, and I know that I for one wouldn't really want the responsibility/blame that would come with it, haah! 😉 -- Djonni (talk) 13:41, 3 October 2019 (UTC)
In a related note, if you think that there's something on the wiki that really needs the Devs to intervene to delete content or limit a user's access, like spam, vandalism, or discriminatory, offensive, or otherwise inappropriate content, my advice is to submit an Other into Ideabox with the details. They have always responded promptly to my requests there, if necessary. -- Djonni (talk) 16:38, 3 October 2019 (UTC)
Thanks for the clarifications / confirmations on recent page deletions Djonni. I run into the access issue on Special:Logs as well. -- S624 (talk) 18:29, 3 October 2019 (UTC)
Oh hey, it turns out we can see the deletion log, just not the general log! Special:Log/delete -- Djonni (talk) 07:29, 4 October 2019 (UTC)

Blanking pages

Regarding the previous discussion I could easily answer yes to that question, but that would be a lie. I already restored the pages and i am sorry for what i have done. Do what you must. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zelthal the Hollow (talkcontribs) 25 October 2019‎

Well, seeing as you've self-corrected the problem, I personally don't see any reason why further steps should be taken, though you should be aware that any user of the Godwiki can see every edit that's made and will make their own decision about whether it should be reported. That includes GodFalsakhar  themself, who will be able to see the full history of every affected page, and this conversation.
I would also suggest that you undo the fourth edit you made, (Tick.png Done -- Djonni (talk) 09:26, 26 October 2019 (UTC)) which was removing a legitimate (if out of date and unanswered) question that Falsakhar asked on BlueStapler's talk page years ago.
The lesson here is that the Godwiki is not the place to take personal issues between players, nor is it the place for any practical jokes or pranks which violate the rules or create confusion or nuisance for other players. That said, you did the right thing to undo your vandalism yourself, so well done for that.
Note to reader: This conversation is a continuation of User talk:Zelthal the Hollow#Blanking pages that may belong to another God regarding the blanking of content belonging to Falsakhar. -- Djonni (talk) 10:33, 25 October 2019 (UTC)

Question from Sand Devil 4-medal laurel(U • C • T) 

Just curious, you changed my template? Sand Devil (talk)

Yeah, it had an empty {{doc}} template that was causing Template:Sand Devil/Documentation to appear in the Special:WantedTemplates report. You can see the changes here.
You're obviously welcome to undo the edit and add documentation to your template if you like. You can either create Template:Sand Devil/Documentation, or, probably easier, is to add |content=Your documentation text goes here. to the {{doc}}, like: {{doc|content = Your text}}. -- Djonni (talk) 14:13, 1 November 2019 (UTC)
It was a question, not a critique. Thank you for the explanation. I wish I could remember why I felt the doc template was necessary, but that desire has passed. You all are doing fine work and I see no reason to undo it, but because I like doing things correctly, I have to ask. --Sand Devil (talk) 17:04, 1 November 2019 (UTC)
Mmm of course! I learned everything the same way — watching what's happening around the wiki and either puzzling it out or asking why. I never mean to discourage questions, sorry if my response seemed curt, I was simply distracted. I usually throw in more smileys and stuff. 😅

User:Djonni/Template sandbox Question

In fact, if you want to get involved with some testing and feedback on the improvements being made to major templates, please feel free to give the draft replacement for the {{Usergod}} template a whirl, it's currently at User:Djonni/Template sandbox. If you want to use the draft on your Sand Devil page and play with it, just replace {{usergod| heroine = Bella Rebe|...}} with {{User:Djonni/Template sandbox| heroine = Bella Rebe|...}}. I've fully documented my changes, so you can play with the new parameters, set colors and styles, whatever. If you want to see some examples of it, I've been using it on my User page for a while now, and WardPhoenix has been testing it at User:WardPhoenix/Sandbox as I've made changes and improvements. I've also made myself a testbed of what it will do to a sample of existing inactive users' God pages at User:Djonni/Sandbox (though fair warning, that page is big and messy). In fact, come to think of it, unless something unexpected comes up from immediate feedback, making the documentation more user-friendly is probably the last thing left to do before opening it up for testing and feedback by anyone interested. So if you want to, please don't hesitate to give it a good try, and give me any feedback on the template itself, the parameters and their behaviour, or the documentation! -- Djonni (talk) 17:32, 1 November 2019 (UTC)

Very colorful, very flexible, lots of parameters to get lost in. I LIKE IT! Can you change the font colors? --Sand Devil (talk) 20:37, 1 November 2019 (UTC)

You can, using the areastyle parameters which, I realise now, I need to sort out for the three subsections. Tomorrow I'll try to get those working properly and then I'll explain how to change the text colour for parts of the box (like, say, the guild section you have coloured a dark brown on your user page!) 😊 -- Djonni (talk) 21:55, 1 November 2019 (UTC)
Alright! So, I've greately expanded the flexibility of how customisable the subsections are. I've briefly documented the parameters at User:Djonni/Template sandbox#Subsection style parameters, but essentially, I've made it possible to insert your own custom CSS into the various parts of the table. So, if you want to change the text colour of the Guild subsection of your table, add this to your template wikicode: |guildstyle=color: CSS colour value;.
CSS colour values are very flexible. I don't know how much you know about HTML and CSS, but you can set hex colour values or specify colour names. I see you've used hex codes for the colurs you've got, but if you want to look look at the full range of options, try htmlcolorcodes.com, it's one of many helpful sites for this kind of thing.
Looking at the dark colours you're using in the Guild block, you might find that |guildstyle=color: lightgrey; works well for you. However, you'll notice that doesn't change the colour of the link to the guild page — unfortunately that's beyond our control on the wiki. (In short, we humans don't want spambots to be able to create pages on wikis with hidden deceptive links, so the wiki clamps down on any changes to link styles. It's very important, and a little annoying.)
But otherwise, the |guildstyle=, |guildheaderstyle=, |guildlabelstyle= and |guilddatastyle= parameters will let you go crazy with any CSS styling you want. The only immovable object is the styling and colouring of links; otherwise, make it as crazy, ugly, or awesome as you want! -- Djonni (talk) 17:05, 2 November 2019 (UTC)

User:Djonni/Template sandbox Suggestion

Just a thought, maybe for the template (Probably better on the hero, but still thinking overall), have a section of goals. Goal 1 build temple by Christmas. Goal 2: Be in the top 100 of duels. Goal 3: Seeking honored coach achievement medal.

The idea is, written goals given a sense of direction and increases sense of satisfaction when done. Especially if there is a completed option. More importantly, for some achievements, like coaches, it would let others know that you are interested in coaching.

I know this could be done by custom, but a demonstration on how would probably better. Maybe something that a beginner would be more willing to use.

It's early, I'm barely at my coffee, so I'll be ok if you let me know this idea is too half-baked....

Myabe there is a better way for coaches, probably cat -- willing sparrers, with most likely to be availabe... hmm... .coffeee....

--Sand Devil (talk) 14:27, 6 November 2019 (UTC)

Mmm, I'm pretty open to adding more sections if there's a demand for it. No ideas are bad ideas, as far as I'm concerned!
That said... the template is already big, and adding more sections and parameters that won't be used isn't particularly helpful to anyone, as it simply bloats the documentation needlessly, and makes the template harder to deal with for anyone who wants to work on it in future. So what I'm going to be looking for is a user-led, and usage-led, process. Users, of course, includes you 😊
What I'd suggest for this or any idea about what should be built into the template is for folks to use the custom section to build what they actually *want* their infobox to display. Your suggestion of a demonstration of some custom section arrangements is a good idea, I'll have to think about a reasonable way to do that. I was already considering a style gallery.
Perhaps once the new template is in place and working, these are things which would live on the Guideline: God Articles page (which now contains very little), and we can see what people really want from the template by what they use. Feel free to start designing examples in a sandbox if you want, there's nothing preventing the test template from being called with only a custom section, and if you paste a second copy of the template between <pre>...</pre> tags people will see the code (as in the test template docs, see for example). You may also wish to pop a |nocat=yes into the template examples that aren't your real infobox, or your sandbox with end up in [[Category:Gods]]. Leave it out of the visible code between the <pre>...</pre> tags though, or people will think they need it to use the example. Hope that makes sense.
There's a pretty real chance that the options and sections it has now won't get used much, so the proof will be in the pudding, I think. But the more ideas people can see and use easily, the more likely they are to be inspired! 😊 -- Djonni (talk) 18:11, 6 November 2019 (UTC)
Thanks a lot for the tip, your template is User friendly and highly customisable though I worry it might be quite hard for people who don't already have a good grasp of how the wiki including work, might I ask if you intend to make an easier version, which would look a bit more complete than the first one because the template is so nice I wouldn't want people to think it's too hard for them and to still use the old Usergod/Usergodess template.
--Arkhen Thean (talk) 21:02, 20 November 2019 (UTC)
Well, the plan is to replace {{Usergod}} and {{Usergoddess}}, so everybody will be using the new template. And you're right, it will be important to write really clear and easy docs for new folks to use it, when it's out of testing. I'll probably break the docs into two sections, a very easy beginner section at the top, and an advanced section for those who want to dig right into the fancy parts. :) Thanks for the comment, it's good to be reminded that some beginners might find it too hard to use! -- Djonni (talk) 21:33, 20 November 2019 (UTC)
My initial thoughts were that I didn't at all like it but that was a couple of weeks ago. The amount of options are a bit overwhelming & I don't see myself using most of them, or any of the colour choice options. That being said, I'm sure there was a discussion that the icon beside the Guild label could be changeable. Is that right, or can it be hidden? -- S624 (talk) 20:44, 28 November 2019 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── Yeah, I definitely great what you're saying about the uptime being overwhelming. Writing clear, easy, beginner-friendly docs is the next big challenge. And I wouldn't expect any one person to use most of the options!

The icons can be absolutely be suppressed, with |emoji=no. (Does |icons=no make more sense?) That'll switch off the symbols to the left of both Guild and Pantheon headers. -- Djonni (talk) 05:50, 29 November 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for taking it into consideration. |icons=no would make more sense to me. -- S624 (talk) 08:36, 29 November 2019 (UTC)
Done. {|icons=no should now work for you. Let me know if it doesn't work as expected. -- Djonni (talk) 08:42, 29 November 2019 (UTC)
Added & works as expected. Many thanks. -- S624 (talk) 08:45, 29 November 2019 (UTC)

Interwiki link test

Unless you are Godville Admin, please ignore this :)

mediawiki:Unexpected leads to an unexpected URL.

metawiki:Unexpected leads to a really unexpected URL.

This is an example of labelled for reuse image searching.

Picturecamera.pngPicture needed
This article needs one or more pictures to be added to it. To help Godwiki, please consider adding suitable pictures. You can find some pictures that are not protected by copyright or licensing here.

Boa constrictor image

I see you removed File:A boa constrictor digesting an elephant.png from delete saying you use it on your user page (which isn’t a problem). It was on the unused images report and didn’t seem relevant to the site which is why I added the template. I’m just confused. It doesn’t appear to be there currently, am I blind, or is it not there? Do you have it on there only every so often (EG: every Christmas or something)

I’m only really asking because I’m curious and because I have it on User talk:Emptysora/dummy (heads up, there’s 800+ image thumbnails on the page, it’s not mobile friendly) to remove it from Special:UnusedFiles. If I remove it from the dummy page, it’ll just go back on the unused files report. That’s why I’m asking.

I’ll keep it there if you want so it doesn’t show on the report as that is the purpose of that page. Just curious/confused.

Bizarre image, btw. (;一_一)

Emptysora (talk) 06:24, 20 November 2019 (UTC)

If you look again tomorrow, you'll see it there, and again 6 days later. (Sometimes less often, sometimes more often, as I add and remove things from the rotation.) The header section of my user page changes itself dynamically every day. (Sometimes more often than every day, but that's another story.) I'll think of a way to make the image appear as "in use" on the page (and keep it off the unused image report) so that if anyone looks at the file in future they'll see it associated with the page, even in days it's not featured.
And yes, it is. Does it frighten you? -- Djonni (talk) 06:47, 20 November 2019 (UTC)
Ah, I figured it might’ve been something like that. I’m not sure how you’ll be able to without adding the images to the page (unless linking to the image instead of embedding it also removes it.)
Whenever you get it working feel free to remove the image from my dummy page (that’s why it’s in User talk and not User) as with any other images, categories, and templates I throw in there if they’re removed from the site or unmarked from the deletion category. I moved the boa image all the way to the bottom of the gallery so you don’t have to fish through the page for the link.
Actually, I just thought of something. We could move the dummy to the main namespace and add it to Maintenance. Does that sound like a good idea? (It basically is a maintenance page at this point) I only thought of this because if we end up using the page regularly, it shouldn’t be in my User talk section, really.
I wouldn’t say it frightens me, it’s just not something I expected to see in the list of images, heh.
A boa constrictor digesting an elephant
Emptysora (talk) 07:07, 20 November 2019 (UTC)
maybe if you put the picture in the page as a 1x1 frameless image that would be enough to hide it somewhere...? (EDIT) That would make it relatively harmless on mobile since it gets thumbnailed to that sizeEmptysora (talk) 07:13, 20 November 2019 (UTC)
Yeah, the 1x1px frameless was my plan, I thought of it ages ago as a way to keep the image off the unused image list, but since nobody's tried to clean those files up until now I never got around to it. 😊 It's done now, and you'll see from File:A boa constrictor digesting an elephant.png that it's now correctly showing as in use on my page. I'll use the same trick in future if I add other images that don't appear every day. 😊 I took it off the list on User talk:Emptysora/dummy too. -- Djonni (talk) 09:35, 20 November 2019 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── To be honest, I didn’t think I would be doing it either. I’m honestly surprised with how active I’m being on this wiki right now, it’s pretty uncharacteristic of me, given I usually just do grammar/spelling/technical edits most of the time. The Category:Marked for deletion category has grown in size quite a bit... But, meh. I digress. — Emptysora (talk) 09:51, 20 November 2019 (UTC)


Thanks for fixing the issue about the unintended categorization! Has some head scratching on that one when I worked on that yet to complete template. Thanks to you, we now have one more useless category to delete 😂. -- WardPhoenix (talk) 23:16, 24 November 2019 (UTC)

Err. I hope I’m not raining on your parade: Category talk:Articles which use infobox templates with no data rows. — Emptysora (talk) 01:22, 25 November 2019 (UTC)
Mmm, unfortunately I don't think we can delete the category just because we've emptied it this time 😅 -- Djonni (talk) 04:00, 25 November 2019 (UTC)

Infobox / How do I ...

How do I get the Title bar to look the same as the other title / label bars? For reference, see Sand Devil? I have future plans for this, but for now, taking baby steps to see how to work it. --Sand Devil (talk) 18:20, 16 December 2019 (UTC)

Heh, it can be tricky at first!
You've done |customdata6={{User:Sand Devil/Temple}}, so the title of the child infobox is being formatted as if it's a data cell. Change it to |customheader6={{User:Sand Devil/Temple}} and it'll look like a header. 😊 -- Djonni (talk) 18:52, 16 December 2019 (UTC)
It's the little things that kill you. I looked through it so very carefully, didn't realize I changed it from header to data. Even got the style to be rowstyle to support the header..... Oh well, it works now, thank you very much! --Sand Devil (talk) 19:05, 16 December 2019 (UTC)
Eheheh, I do that kind of thing constantly. Most of my edits are fixing my other edits.
Here's the helpful insight: when |child=yes, the contents of |title= are just output directly as text into the containing cell. So, you format the cell you embed the child infobox into as you want that header to appear.
Of course, since you used |customrowstylen= you probably figured that much out already!
What you're doing, with a transcluded child, is my vision of how a potential Template:Pet could be used as a standalone template, and then also nested into a {{Usergod}}, {{Hero}}, or potential Template: Ark, etc. Make each template modular, and it could be used on its own, embedded, etc. I'm vaguely considering spinning off the Pantheon section in {{Usergod}} to, I dunno, maybe Template:Pantheons, and when {{Guild}} has been redone, a subset of that could be used for the {{Usergod}} Guild section. Which would allow, for example, a guild to keep their {{Guild}} template in a subpage (see, for example, Russia very cleverly using {{:{{BASEPAGENAME}}/statistics}}}} to transclude Russia/statistics), from where guild members could include automagically up-to-date info in their Usergod. Not the whole guild template just dumped on their Usergod, obviously, that would get ridiculous, just the stats.
Anyway. I'm rambling. But it would be pretty cool, I think, to be able to make a subpage for each of your pets if you want, and so when they get retired you simply 'move' them to your {{Ark}}... And so on. These are still only fairly vague ideas for now, and they're big on cool factor without necessarily being features people actually need, or would use in practice 😆 -- Djonni (talk) 19:30, 16 December 2019 (UTC)
My first step was making sure I could make the infobox work, as a child. I'll split it out to a generic template user:Sand Devil/TempleTemplate that could be referenced from anything else. Then keep the Sand Devil/Temple as my specific temple info so I only have to change info once, and affect the hero and god pages. Then I'll do the same to the pets, then the ark. By then, you should be doen with the Hero template changes. Maybe I'll know enough to help you with the guild or other projects. Maybe...--Sand Devil (talk) 19:57, 16 December 2019 (UTC)
Well, you mentioned (in a PM, I think) that you were considering working up a Template:Pet, I think it was. If you were to either do that in a sandbox I could also edit (i.e., not under your User:, so, for example, Sand Devil/Sandbox), or make it to your satisfaction and put it in the no-longer-used Template:Pet page, I could simply make any adjustments necessary for it to work both standalone and embedded.
Ah, pro tip for transcluding from the main namespace. If you do create Sand Devil/Sandbox, you use the colon trick to transclude it. In other words, you use {{:Sand Devil/Sandbox}}, not {{Sand Devil/Sandbox}}, because the second will look for a template at Template:Sand Devil/Sandbox, and fail to find one. (See note above about the Russia page to see the colon trick in use for main namespace transclusion.) -- Djonni (talk) 20:12, 16 December 2019 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── Challenge: do {{:Djonni}}, preview, and then figure out how I did that. ;) -- Djonni (talk) 20:17, 16 December 2019 (UTC) NICE!!! Much more elegant than what I had tried. Very nice... --Sand Devil (talk) 20:23, 16 December 2019 (UTC)

Rewrite of Help:Requests/howto

Just finished rewriting Help:Requests/howto to be much more professional and flow better. Do you mind proofreading it? I’d like a second pair of eyes. Also, it’s really late for me, so I probably missed a really dumb typo or autocarrot complaint.

Thanks~ — Emptysora (talk) 08:59, 18 December 2019 (UTC)

Sandbox edit for Quote

Just noticed your sandbox edit for Quote. I do think that the align parameter (that I added), does have a use, so it’s not exactly useless. And I’m pretty sure one of my edits actually uses the parameter (hence why I added it). I certainly couldn’t tell you which edit though. The parameter is more useful on desktop with small quotes that completely destroy the flow of a page. (Left aligning the quotes makes it flow better).

There should be a skill article that uses it.

Unless you have a reason to remove it (aside from disuse), I don’t exactly see why we have to remove it. — Emptysora (talk) 17:02, 18 December 2019 (UTC)

Disuse was my only reason, I hadn't realised it was a new addition. I assumed it was part of the original design, and so had been available for ~ a decade without being used. Before starting the sandbox I surveyed every transclusion of the template on the Godwiki, and didn't recall any usage of the parameter, so sorry for missing that you added and are using it! It goes back in. 😊 -- Djonni (talk) 17:08, 18 December 2019 (UTC)
Thanks. I mainly added it because the following (when centered, which doesn’t seem to be default now for some reason...) looks atrocious on desktop:
Level 1
short quote
Level 2
short quote
Level 3
short quote
Level 4
short quote

That happened on one of the skill pages i was editing. It made the actual headers look like content, and the content look like headers. It was... ugly. — Emptysora (talk) 17:16, 18 December 2019 (UTC)
Actually, the not default thing might be a weird Minerva quirk now that I think of it.
EDIT (17:27, 18 December 2019 (UTC)): Oh yeah, it’s just a weird Minerva quirk that it wasn’t centered. Ignore my confusion there. — Emptysora (talk) 17:23, 18 December 2019 (UTC)
It must be a Minerva thing, yes. You'll need to be wary of that kind of work when editing on mobile in Minerva!
As for the sandbox, I've got it to minimum viable (as in, behaving like the current quote template, but in flexboxes, not a table), and if you are inclined to test it out, let me know if it behaves badly. -- Djonni (talk) 17:30, 18 December 2019 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── Yeah, thankfully, I don’t do much layout editing (especially horizontal positioning) on mobile. But, I know Minerva has its quirks. Table collapsing doesn’t work either in Minerva...

Honestly, until yesterday, I didn’t even know they had MobileFrontend installed...

In a similar vein, we should also be trying to make sure things work across all themes. I noticed some weird overflow issues in Minerva with the hatboxes yesterday.

I’ll gladly put your edit through the wringer later. I have a few “chores” to do this morning (and then the rest of the day I’m pretty much free). Hope they don’t take too long to complete. :) — Emptysora (talk) 17:46, 18 December 2019 (UTC)

Well, the problems with layouts on different mobile CSS skins came up historically, during redesigns of the main page, and the conclusion was that the user fraction who would ever change the mobile skin is an extreme minority (my current educated guess is precisely one user) that can look after their damn selves. 😉 Worrying about desktop vs mobile with default settings is hard enough with the rudimentary tools we have access to. You may not yet have discovered this, but you can't even use Special:MyPage/<skin_name>.css for customisation, as $wgAllowUserCss == false here. -- Djonni (talk) 18:02, 18 December 2019 (UTC)
Heh, one indeed. I wonder who that person could be? I figured AllowUserCss was set to false. Special:Version isn’t even accessible, which makes it difficult sometimes to see what level of “abuse” the wiki will take from you without breaking.
It is hard to test desktop vs mobile with our tools we have been provided, but I still think it’s important as it makes the wiki better. Out of all aspects of programming, my favorite is debugging. It’s fun to see what tiny mistakes cause the most bizarre errors. Fixing said errors is like a puzzle sometimes, and I LOVE Logic Games (I have Slitherlink, Tic-Tac-Logic, and Nurikabe apps on my phone, and they’re pretty much my only games on here.) and Puzzles.
Honestly, the last thing I want is the wiki to fall to disuse since it’s an excellent resource we don’t have to rely on the devs for. That’s most of my motivation for my edits: be more welcoming, make it easier for inexperienced users to edit, and ensure everything works regardless of what we do to it. It’s why I’m a bit insistent about certain things too, like the spaces in template calls. “I like godville, I like GodWiki, therefore I shall contribute.” (Me — My user page)
Despite the last paragraph, I currently do not believe that the wiki is falling to disuse, even if that was implied (probably). We just don’t get edits as frequently as other wikis. And that’s perfectly fine.
Also, for something actually on-topic, thanks for migrating Quote to flexbox. I don’t use flexboxes as much as I should. A bad habit from the HTML4 era... Another bad habit I have is using span + display:block/inline-block when the content should be in a div. — Emptysora (talk) 18:33, 18 December 2019 (UTC)
Ackshually... Since you've brought up about the spaces in template calls. I am, to be candid, really against that, but I've not brought it up as the changes were made in a huge sweep that can't be easily unscrambled, and I realise it's partly just an issue of misaligned (heh) aesthetics, but... Let me explain.
In short, it's just aggressively desktop-centric. I genuinely don't see the value-add in it, not when balanced against the awful pain it creates when doing anything on mobile. It's only a handful of the most frequent and active of us editors that use desktop at all, and for an inexperienced user on mobile (i.e. the overwhelming majority of editors) it's inexplicable and confusing why everything's strangely misaligned and weirdly spaced in aallll those templates.
I haven't brought it up before now, because, as I said, there's an issue with unscrambling the egg, but I think it's an idea that would be great on a different Wiki, with experienced editors reliably using monospaced fonts. But that ain't this wiki, and that ain't our users. I want to at least remove the extra spacing from the copy-paste example templates in the template docs, with your blessing. -- Djonni (talk) 18:46, 18 December 2019 (UTC)
Or, of course, throw it to a wider conversation and see which way the wind blows on the issue. I'm not precious about it, if I'm the only one who feels that way. 🤷‍♂️ -- Djonni (talk) 18:48, 18 December 2019 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── Honestly, after editing more in WPTouch (with its liability to ignore your preferred editor font), and with the fact the majority of the edits are on mobile + WPTouch. I’m inclined to agree with you. At the bare minimum, we should keep \n|_parameter-name_=_value\n. I’ll go through in my spare time and reformat them again, just, please, next time “yell” at me on my user page before I go through all of them (if you can), so we don’t have this unscramble a scrambled egg issue. I’ll try to bring my more mass edits up for discussion as well.

Another thing I would like to suggest is instead of camel case for parameter names (where we use them), we use the hyphenated method (parameter-name instead of parameterName) since the hyphen makes it easier to recognize there’s a word break there. Trust me, I know how much of a nuisance this would be to actually do. Also, on mobile, autocarrot is less likely to bug you if you use the hyphenated method, from my experience.

As long as the spacing and camel case is a thing, I don’t think readability will be much of an issue—on all edit themes. I’d like for you to hold off on editing the template docs and guideline articles for now until we decide what to do. Though, if you agree with this (regardless of feasibility), or have a really good reason to be against it (your discretion, you don’t need my permission to edit), then just go ahead and do the edits. We can discuss the feasibility of this later, after all.

Reasonable method: dual support camel case + hyphenated, migrate pages over to hyphenated, remove camel case.

We really should have a style manual for templates, unless I’m blind and we already have one.

Another thing I wish we had is the visual editor. THAT would certainly solve a lot of these source editor user friendliness issues. Maybe we can do a Feedback > Other submission. Unlike CirrusSearch, Visual Editor is much easier to install. (As are many other nice little extensions I wish we had.) — Emptysora (talk) 19:22, 18 December 2019 (UTC)

I... don't know of any camel case in use in any templates? Neither for parameter names, nor recognised values. If you do know of any, we should definitely investigate and migrate as quickly as possible, but as far as I'm aware all parameter names are all lowercase and either |nospaces= or |hyphenated-words=. Camel/intercaps is not at all mobile friendly, and I would never design/allow camel case parameter names.
If you hadn't yet realised, you're actually talking to a professional programmer here. Work in mixed C, C++, C#, .NET, xml, Python, LabVIEW, building both libraries and applications for wide and varied platforms using some... uh... pretty hacky toolchains, much of which is custom. Other languages for hobby projects. I wear two hats though really, programmer by day and part-time English teacher. A uniquely apt combination for contributing to a pun-rich wiki, heh. -- Djonni (talk) 19:38, 18 December 2019 (UTC)
Honestly, I figured as much. While I’m not a professional programmer, I do have decent experience with nearly all of the languages you mentioned (and programming is my major). I’m also particular about grammar. So, the hobbyist equivalent...?
I don’t think there are templates here that use camel case. I just more meant in general, not using hyphens, I’d kind of like to see nospaces be no-spaces (which is more what I was talking about), but... — Emptysora (talk) 19:50, 18 December 2019 (UTC)
Ah, okay, I see. Well... that one's far more of an uphill battle, and less clear cut as to where greater beginner usability lies — though you make a good point about autocorrects. Trouble is that a huge amount of the metatemplates and infrastructure in place here now (and on almost all mediawikis anywhere) use nospaces parameters extensively, or exclusively:
etc. I think there are good reasons to use nospaces naming in many parameters, and good reasons to use hyphenated naming in others. I will usually end up with a mix.
In short, I think what I'm getting at is that in most cases that particular die was cast many years ago, but certainly, I agree that hyphenated parameter names are often the right choice. When designing {{Diarybar}} recently, I chose |background-color= over |backgroundcolor= because, well, obviously. -- Djonni (talk) 20:22, 18 December 2019 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── I agree with that too, I’m aware of what nospaces does internally. I just used that because it worked as an example for what I meant. Internally (like in metatemplate calls), I have no problem with the not-hyphenated version, since only more experienced editors will see that. In main space articles, we *should* (emphasis on should) use hyphenated names in all parameters/values, generally speaking. Valid exceptions include the nospaces parameter, and many fringe cases.

A more interesting case (and probably why I thought of camel case because of the numbering being like upper case letters), is in {{usergod}} |customheaderX= vs |custom-headerX= or |custom-header-X=. It’s a bit gray in this case since neither look that great IMO. I’m inclined to use the former (read, “custom” “header X”, as in “custom” is a modifier of “headerX”) but...

But yeah, I did say I knew this would be a nightmare if we wanted to change this. Yeesh.

Given I do a lot of programming in C# and JS, I have a tendency to use camel case, so if I ever add a parameter that is camel case... sorry.

I don’t think I have dyslexia (never been diagnosed), but I do have quite a hard time reading and understanding page sources when they’re not monospaced or if the words are really close to one another (worse if it’s a paragraph). A lot of of the template calls look like gibberish to me because of this. I just don’t interpret it properly, if at all. I mean, I know it’s a template call, but, it takes me like 7 or 8 reads to actually semi-understand the words. That’s part of why I’m being insistent about this. The hyphenated method plus spaces makes it much easier to spot where words start and end for me. The multi-spaces don’t really help unless I’m in a monospaced editor, unfortunately—which is another part of the reason I’m inclined to undo it. The {{ordinal}} template is a good example of what I mean by hard to read: {{ordinal|1}}. Most of my feedback submissions involve accessibility issues for this reason. (Most of the ones I’m talking about haven’t been approved yet)

I’ll gladly help out if you want to modify and refactor templates. — Emptysora (talk) 20:50, 18 December 2019 (UTC)

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Hello, Djonni. You have new messages at Sand Devil's talk page.
Message added --Sand Devil (talk) 15:02, 27 December 2019 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} template.
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Regarding quote sandbox template

Hi there, short message to say that I noticed a little problem with the quote sandbox template, the firsts guillemets are hiding behind the firsts words of the text. --WardPhoenix (talk) 19:25, 2 January 2020 (UTC)

Thank you for telling me straight away! I reverted the Template:Featured edit back to use Quote. I don't see the same layout issue, what browser/device are you using, and is there a way you could link to a screenshot for me? I'll try to dig into it. -- Djonni (talk) 19:32, 2 January 2020 (UTC)
There you go (hope link works, issue was on mobile view, on my good old samsmung S4) --WardPhoenix (talk) 19:27, 3 January 2020 (UTC)
An S4! My goodness! 😂 No wonder editing the old List Of pages would crash your device, you've got about 5 bits of memory left on that thing, hahaha 😉
So, I guess you're on Android 5 (Lollipop)...? Or are you still on 4.2.2? -- Djonni (talk) 20:12, 3 January 2020 (UTC)
Looks like it's 4.4.4 --WardPhoenix (talk) 21:30, 3 January 2020 (UTC)
Ah, okay, I think that's the cause. A change was made between Android 4.x and 5 to the software that is used to render a web page inside an app, and 4.x devices are still using very old and out-of-date renderers. I hadn't realised that devices on 4.x and earlier wouldn't understand flexboxes.
According to the Android developer dashboard statistics, about 10-11% of Android devices are still running versions below 5. I'm willing to bet that the Godville population is a lot more than that, though — I know the game is treasured by many using old devices because it's a game that runs well on anything.
So, I'll have to shelve the {{quote}} project for a while, or at least change approach. I may need your help with testing some alternative options later, as I don't have any devices running < Android 10 any more, eheh 😅 -- Djonni (talk) 06:53, 4 January 2020 (UTC)

Coding problems

So I'm messaging you about my code... I'm a bit self conscious and I try my best to make up for past mistakes (like not answering people when they tell me stuff on my talk page (Bad Luciolle24)). And to remedy some of those problems I've been studying the code from your, Darksora's and WardPhoenix's pages... I've come across a few very annoying bugs though... I've tried to fix some of it but some are, how do you say this... Persistent! For exemple the Quest template and my attempt at making my talk page a bit more User-friendly... As I'm thinking about creating templates myself, I worry that my inhability to work around my troubles with really well thought out code is going to prove I'm not worthy of putting developer on my User page... If you could be so kind as to take a few minutes to show me what's wrong with my use of the template (if you have time, I don't want you to feel like you need to do it... I really think you have more important things to do than look at my sorry excuse of trying to make templates work)... Yours, truely (I've always wanted to say that 🙃) --Luciolle24 (talk) 19:56, 1 March 2020 (UTC)

Ahhh, I might understand what's going on with the {{quest}} template... are you talking about this little bit of code?
|title=Lord of Lore
|text=Added lore to every page on the wiki.({{#expr:((24/{{formatnum:{{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}|R}})*100) round 2}}%)
|status={{#expr:((24/{{formatnum:{{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}|R}})*100) round 0}}
Firstly, your code there is clever, very nice work. The issue, I think, is that the |status= bit is just a shade too clever. If you just do:
it will look like this:
Lord of Lore
Added lore to every page on the wiki.(0.63%)
There's an (undocumented, I think, I'll need to improve those docs) feature of {{quest}} (it's actually a feature of {{diarybar}}, the template that draws the progress bar in the quest box) that's designed specifically to handle this kind of usage. It actually does the {{#expr: for you, if it detects anything more complicated than a simple number value.
Secondly, if the |status= parameter gets given a value <= 1, it will intelligently handle it as a percentage. I.e., if you set |status=1/2, you'll get a bar that's 50% full. So, the *100 isn't necessary, as the bar already handles that for you. Secondly, by including round 0 you're forcing the bar to round to the nearest whole number (which you don't need to do)... and so, if your value is 0.83, it rounds to 1, and if |status=1, the diarybar treats it as if it were 100%. (So that you could, say, put in |status=10/10 and get 100% as expected, not 1%).
Does that make sense? :D
Incidentally, you can also simplify the |text= expression. You have {{formatnum:{{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}|R}}, which can be expressed as just {{NUMBEROFARTICLES:R}}. :) -- Djonni (talk) 08:44, 3 March 2020 (UTC)
Thanks that help me a lot and ( if it's not too much to ask) could you help me with the code on the top of my talk page... I wanted to make it like yours but it seems it doesn't work on my page and on your talk page it just sends people to
{{Talk :Djonni}}
instead of
{{User Talk :Djonni}}
Luciolle24 (talk) 08:56, 3 March 2020 (UTC)
on your talk page it just sends people to Talk :Djonni instead of User Talk :Djonni Oh my gosh, you're right! That actually explains a lot, hahaha, I couldn't figure out why sometimes people would end up starting new topics on that page 😂😂😂 Fixed, and thank you very much for pointing it out, haha!
As for the one on your talk page, it's fixed now :) In this edit I put _ underscore characters into the URL to fix it. :) -- Djonni (talk) 09:02, 3 March 2020 (UTC)
Thanks to you too... Guess that's my edit for the day 🙃... I thought I was dumb when I clicked on your link, made my code inquiry and looked up to see a giant DO NOT POST HERE, THIS IS NOT THE PAGE YOU ARE LOOKING FOR... well at least now everything will be working :) --Luciolle24 (talk) 09:07, 3 March 2020 (UTC)

#switch/automatic switch and featured articles

Hello there!

I am currently trying to build up a new template to replace the current main page featured article, with the idea to have an article randomly choosen every X time (I was thinking going either every week or day), idea that came from your switching header on your page.

Though I have some trouble with the combinaison of #switch and the Template:Random number. I have noticed that the daily one actually switched by itself at some point, I didn't have the same kind of result with the one using seconds, that one not changing at all.

Since trying with week would take ages, I'd go ahead about what you think about seconds not working (cache things?) and it would work with weeks directly.

While I am at it, I would like to have your global opinion on the automatic featured idea. To go more into details, like I said it would switch article automaticaly once in a while, from a premade list (kinda like the list of Template : Cite blog) where we'll add the article worth of being featured (and we could still nominate article to go into that list, or even force an article to be displayed, by having the random being a default but replacable parameter). --WardPhoenix (talk) 13:59, 7 August 2020 (UTC)

Ahaaah! I've been watching your experiments, wondering what you were planning to build with randomness! Yes, I can explain everything 😄
If you use a random number source that changes all the time (like {{#time:U}}, {{#time:z}}, etc), the resume will change every single time the page is cached. I use this technique in my header for the horribly (hilariously? Yeah, hilariously) obnoxious "Graphic design is my passion" header to change the colours several times through the day. The Godwiki runs a full cache every few hours — every time the featured image on the main page changes, it's because it's been re-cached and a random number generator was used to pick a fresh image. 😊
So, if you want something to change daily, it's best to use a number source that changes daily. {{Daily choice}}, and all the {{he or she}} templates that use it, does this. So, perhaps it's worth us making a {{Weekly choice}} template for this use? I'm sure once we have it we'll find other creative applications for it... Maybe I'll change my |avatar= once a week now 😁
As for the idea of the rotating featured articles, that seems like a pretty nice idea to me. I think it's at least worth setting it up, running it for a few months, and see how we like it. And I think having a {{Weekly choice}} available opens up other Main Page options too... Perhaps we make a rotating list of the most wanted page, or stubs, to try and catch some more creative engagement right from the front page.
Seems like a solid idea to me! -- Djonni (talk) 16:27, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
So that's why those #time things were not doing what I expected, looks like I gonna have to look at good old magic words then. And I completely overlooked the existence of Template:Daily choice, which seemed a good basis for what I had in mind at first read. Though, from what I am reading and understanding, this template rotates between possibilities rather than selecting randomly between them.
Basically, I need a {{#switch:{{{1}}}|1 = article 1|2 = article 2|n = article n|[...]}} but with the {{{1}}} being randomized every week.
Shouldn't something like {{#ifeq: {{#expr:{{CURRENTWEEK}}mod 2}}|0|{{Template:Random Number}}|{{Template:Random number}} }} generate a random number with every new week? Then I could use that generated number as my {{{1}}}. --WardPhoenix (talk) 19:05, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
{{#switch: {{{1|{{#ifeq: {{#expr:{{CURRENTWEEK}}mod 2}}|0|{{Template:Random number|X}}|{{Template:Random number|X|Y}} }} }}} |0 = test 0 |1 = test 1 |2 = test 2 |3 = test 3 |[...] }} Acutal code I came up with so far. --WardPhoenix (talk) 19:19, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
Well, the problem with {{#switch: {{{1|{{#ifeq: {{#expr:{{CURRENTWEEK}}mod 2}}|0|{{Template:Random number|X}}|{{Template:Random number|X|Y}}... is that it still gets called every time the page caches. So, every week it will change between running {{Template:Random number|X}} or {{Template:Random number|X|Y}} with every page cache, but it's still gonna choose a new random number every time, several times a day.
It's true that {{Daily choice}} rotates through the list in order, instead of randomly choosing, but there are good reasons for that (and as I think about it, randomness may not be what we want for the featured article either...). The first reason is randomness is hard. Especially with the kinds of elementary tools available on the the wiki. (Okay, none of what we're talking about is really randomness, it's _psuedorandomness_, but for simplicity I'll keep calling it randomness.) Randomness requires quite large numbers (this is why {{Random number}} uses {{#time: U}}, the number of seconds since Jan 1 1970, because it's a large number: 1634407888). The numbers we have available that will be useful for weekly changes are really far too small to do this well...
Oh crap, I've run out of time... Gotta dash, I'll add more here shortly -- Djonni (talk) 05:36, 8 August 2020 (UTC)

────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────Okay, so. Without a real pseudorandom number generator available on the wiki, the best we have are numbers that are large but change predictably — numbers that come from time measurement. So, we approximate randomness by taking those large numbers and using some tricks to get a less predictable result. Typically, this is modulo arithmetic: take a large number of seconds, mod a not-too-small prime, and your remainder is random-ish. You'll notice that the docs for {{Random number}} specify that the prime used there should not be less than 67. You'll also see mod prime sprinkled everywhere through the {{#switch:}} functions on my user page (I use mostly small but carefully chosen primes, because the cases I'm choosing from are also small).

The variables available for weeks are all going to give us really small numbers: {{CURRENTWEEK}} (41), and {{#time: W}} (41) are too small to be useful for randomness at all.

Aha! But I just remembered we have {{Gregorian-serial date}}, we can use that! {{#expr: trunc ({{Gregorian-serial date}} / 7)}} will give us the count of weeks since the start of the Gregorian calendar: 105439! That'll do for our purposes to get a large-ish number that changes weekly.

But there's still a question as to whether randomness is really what we want, for this use. Randomness has some undesirable properties. Let's say that we have 7 articles in our list:

  • Choosing randomly, 1/7 of the time the same outcome will be chosen twice in a row (and 1/7² of the time, three times in a row).
  • Choosing randomly, 1/7 of the time the previous outcome will appear again next (i.e., A, B, A will happen 1 time out of 7).
  • Choosing randomly, some of the choices will not appear for very long periods, while other choices get chosen frequently. After a very long time we would approach a flat distribution, but for the first couple of years it will look more like a normal distribution, and even when the distribution is flat it will include a lot of long streaks of where some articles never appear)

With real programming you can overcome these limitations by, for example, putting the list in a random but semi-stable order, or writing a choice function which is partly random but gives you some frequency guarantees. We can't do that here.

Hence why {{Daily choice}} and my user page use rotation, instead of randomness. We can still go down the random road if you like, but it's worth considering if randomness is really the effect you want. 😊 -- Djonni (talk) 07:08, 8 August 2020 (UTC)

*sad noises** Yeah, I noticed that it was still switching with the cache, here goes my idea *throw the template by the window*. I have three problem with the {{daily choice}} :
1) Like already said, it's a rotation, meaning the order will always be the same no matter what (at some point we'll know that Y article will appear next after the X article, no surprise element) ;
2) If you update the template to add a new article to the list, it will restart the rotation, which could cause some articles to not appear until very late
3) You can't force the presence of one article, in case of special events for example.
That said, maybe changing the whole featured things to automatic isn't the best idea after all. But maybe, instead I could create a premade list of featurable articles that would work like the list of {{cite blog}}?
Meaning, for example, we'd have {{Featured|1}} and the template would grab the article associated to the number 1. It would mean changing it manually, but atleast, once the full list is made, it would be less a pain in the ass to update.
The reason I wanted to change the template was because it became quite difficult to find new articles to feature and because the historic is becoming difficult to read because of it's length. So basically I wanted to get rid of the contraints of taking a new article, and having to retape it every time. Dunno if it's really a good idea, you'll tell me xD (or if you have a better one I'll take it as well!). --WardPhoenix (talk) 12:19, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
Belatedly responding to this :)
the order will always be the same no matter what... no surprise element...: Yes, unfortunately, the only methods I can think of either have the drawbacks of randomness above, or the drawbacks of predictability. But on the other hand, the only people who will know what the order is are the people who edit the templates, which means, well... probably just you and I. It'll still be a surprise to everyone else! And if the list of articles is long enough, I certainly know that I won't remember what's coming next! 😅
If you update the template to add a new article to the list, it will restart the rotation...: Well, not necessarily. If you change the length of the list, it will jump to an unpredictable location (as you'll go from "mod n" to "mod n + 1", so you'll get a different remainder). But if we simply set the length of the list and don't change it, to add new articles to the list you simply have to replace old articles that have been displayed. And worst case, if we do want to enlarge the list without changing the position, because it's predictable we can always manually add an offset.
Say we have a list of 15 articles, and the template is currently showing article 3. We add two more articles to the list, and find that it's now showing article 12. Using modulo-17 arithmetic (17 being the new list length), we know that 12 + 8 = 3, so we can manually adjust our math: {{#expr: (trunc ({{Gregorian-serial date}} / 7) + 8) mod 15}}. That + 8 in the middle there will ensure that we are still showing article 3 after our edit, and article 4 will come next.
You can't force the presence of one article, in case of special events for example...: Sure you can! In fact it's much easier to do this than with a random template, that's one of the advantages of a rotation system. If next week is a special week (say, Christmas) and I want to change the featured article for next week to, say, Satan Claus, I just look at the number of the current article and insert Satan Claus into the next number in the rotation.
If you want to be extra tricky, we can even put a check at the start to make sure today isn't a special date (something like what I did with Template:Navbox list/Bullet), and override the normal rotation for a day/week/month, etc.
And if we have a special event, like a content drive, we can start putting great completed articles into the featured article list as an extra motivator.

That said, maybe changing the whole featured things to automatic isn't the best idea after all. But maybe, instead I could create a premade list of featurable articles that would work like the list of {{cite blog}}? Meaning, for example, we'd have {{Featured|1}} and the template would grab the article associated to the number 1. It would mean changing it manually, but atleast, once the full list is made, it would be less a pain in the ass to update.

So, this is pretty close to how I imagine the rotation would work, except just not manually. :) Inside {{Featured}} would be the system which chooses one of the articles from the list automatically, so that it's not a pain in the ass at all, it simply changes itself automatically. I think it's the best of both worlds.
The historic is becoming difficult to read because of it's length...: Yeah, I think we can probably get rid of it. It's entirely for the benefit of the people who maintain the featured article, and so if it's more trouble for us than it's worth, then it should go. :)
Incidentally, with the rotation system, it remains possible to keep the "Previously featured:" section at the bottom, maintained automatically as well. They're just articles n-1 and n-2 in the rotation.
Honestly, I think the idea is still a great idea, it's just a shame we don't have the tools on the wiki to make it unpredictable the way you originally imagined. I still think having a rotation changing it each week to the next article in a list is a much, much better system than the way we do it now! I'm still positive about the idea. 😊 -- Djonni (talk) 05:18, 13 August 2020 (UTC)
A lot of scrolling was done. Well, thanks for the feedback and informations.Daily choice alike seems the way to go. I'll try sorting up the full template for featured when I can.
May do a weekly choice template also, to have the featured one a little cleaner, if it works as intended. -- WardPhoenix (talk) 22:26, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

Updating guild wiki

Hey, I've been updating the guild wiki for my guild, https://wiki.godvillegame.com/Righteous_guild! , and I noticed that at the bottom of the header box there is a little note that says data current as of August 2016. I'd like to change that, but I cannot find any access to that little line of info in the edit tab.

Any help would be great! -- His portliness (talk) 22:58, 3 October 2020 (UTC)

The |date= parameter appears to be the right place - simply find the parameter and change its date accordingly. Hankvi Guidza (talk) 23:00, 3 October 2020 (UTC)
Got it, thanks! -- His portliness (talk) 23:03, 3 October 2020 (UTC)
😁 Glad I could help! 😂
The {{guild}} template has awful parameters, with nonsensical or unsemantic names. It's ugly and unfriendly and difficult for new users to understand, which is especially frustrating as it's one of the templates that is most likely to be interacted with by new and inexperienced wiki users. Unfortunately it's been in use the way it is for 10 years now, and so giving it a renovation/rebuild without breaking a decade's worth of guild wiki pages is going to be... a challenge. 😐 -- Djonni (talk) 05:59, 4 October 2020 (UTC)
Has anyone considered making a new template for future use, and then slowly converting the old guild's wikis? In the more active guilds you can probably get a volunteer to convert their page, in the less active ones, well, just add it to a to-do list lol.
Also, there are many guilds that have been inactive for years and just happen to have whatever random hero floated in, and should probably be deleted anyway.
-- His portliness (talk) 07:06, 4 October 2020 (UTC)
Well, it wouldn't be in the Godwiki spirit to alter a guild page without permission (even for an inactive or vanished guild), and we also don't usually delete the pages for the guilds that have disappeared, though we do mark them as defunct with the badly-named {{delete guild}} template.
The approach we'll need to take is along similar lines to the huge overhaul of the {{Usergod}} template last year. A lot of public notice about the changes in the forums, a long process of making sure we're getting it right, a long period to allow active guild pages to make changes with help. We would have to make a decision together as a community about whether we simply switch old guild pages over to the new infobox without notice, or whether we find a technical means to keep those pages looking the same as they do now, which could be a challenge.
Right now, it's a project I haven't really got the spare attention that it will need 😅 Though if it's going to be done this year, I suppose the clock is ticking. -- Djonni (talk) 09:37, 4 October 2020 (UTC)

Totem for righteous guild

Hey, I went to add the new totem for righteous guild but you beat me to it lol

Sunbathing vampire is a stub, how much more info does it need to become a regular page? -- His portliness (talk) 19:16, 10 October 2020 (UTC)

Sure did, sorry! I figured that updating the monster page and list of monsters may have slipped your mind 😊
They're no hard and fast rules about what is or isn't a stub. Think of a stub on the Godwiki as simply an invitation to expand it, to contribute creativity somewhere that we see an opportunity for more creativity. If you've added something substantial to an article and you think it's no longer a stub, you can remove the template if you want to Be Bold, and someone may come along and put it back on if they disagree. 😊 Or, if you'd like an opinion and feedback on an article, you can leave a message on Help:Requests to ask other Wikimedia contributors if they think it should no longer be a stub, and for some advice on it.
So no nice clean answer like "4 paragraphs on 3 sentences each", I'm afraid, it's much more along the lines of "we'd love to see someone apply some more creativity here". -- Djonni (talk) 20:17, 10 October 2020 (UTC)
No hard feelings, I'm just trying to fill the large shoes of The Mighty Stang, who, although hasn't ever disappeared from the short term pantheons, has disappeared from actively updating anything. He taught me a bunch when I first joined the game, so I try to keep some parts of the wiki updated. Btw, have you heard from Stang? We were kind of close before he just fell off the map, although he lurks still.
ps, check out the Righteous Guild! wiki page for his shout out :)
-- His portliness (talk) 22:51, 10 October 2020 (UTC)
I didn't know Mighty Stang well I'm afraid, only though reputation and wiki interactions. But it's a general trend that I've noticed this year — many of the most established, most active, and most beloved members of the game community have stepped back a little, as the world we live in becomes harder to, well, live in. Of the, say, 10-15 most active and prominent community participants this time last year I can probably think of 5 or 6 that are still really active at the moment. Everyday life's just been taking a lot more of our attention and energy, and for those who enjoyed giving a lot of that attention and energy to the game and its community, there's just not so much to spare, now.
But I predict that a large number of those players will return, slowly. That's the cycle I went through this year; my burdens were weighted towards the start of this year (so far, inshallah), and I slowly returned to being almost as active as I was. My advice, if you want it, is just to make sure he knows that he's always welcome back without pressure, and that if he doesn't wish to take on any leadership or responsibility then nobody minds that either. It's much easier for a player who was very active to ease themselves back at their own pace, than to feel like that have to step right back into their old high-profile role. 😊
Now, if you need any help or advice about the guild wiki page, don't hesitate to ask! One free tip is that a big page like your guild's is much easier to edit on desktop than on mobile, if you're able to do that. -- Djonni (talk) 05:46, 11 October 2020 (UTC)
Hmmm, maybe I should take down that notice on the guild wiki...
Anyway, thank you for the advice, once in a (long) while I find the time to sink time in to the wikis, and when that happens again maybe I'll get some advice from you on tackling bigger projects. I've always been wary of anything involving more than a tiny bit of code, as there isn't really a good tutorial on how the coding works. I'm not about to go become a programmer just to edit wikis, although wouldn't it be nice if we can all donate significant portions of our lives to the things we enjoy? Anyway, I'm ranting, so thank you for your help and offers!
--His portliness (talk) 06:05, 11 October 2020 (UTC)
Well, the Godwiki works much like any other wiki, including Wikipedia, except that our wiki is built on a much simpler and older version of the wiki software (and doesn't include the fancy new Visual Editor, just the regular ol' Wiki Markup Editor). The Wikipedia Introduction to editing with Wiki Markup should be a pretty good place to start, if you're looking for a tutorial on how editing works. 😊 -- Djonni (talk) 06:46, 11 October 2020 (UTC)
I updated the Sunbathing Vampire. Can I mark it as not a stub? What are your thoughts on my update? --His portliness (talk)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── I've given Sunbathing Vampire a once-over and made some corrections and changes, added a latin name, and a couple of other minor changes. I removed the references to mother-in-law's basement — I'm not sure if they came from your edit or from an older edit. I also changed the references to Fireball whiskey, which doesn't exist in the Godville universe as far as our heroes and heroines' diaries have recorded, to a reference to a real and existing artifact, bottle of djinn and tonic.

I took the {{stub}} hatnote off the page, but I'll be honest, I think there's still some room to make it even better. As a reader I still have some questions! 😊

Why does this Vampire love Sunbathing so much? It's a wildly irresponsible thing for a Vampire to do. Is it simply a daredevil, an adrenaline junky? If it's an adrenaline junky, does it love the taste of adrenaline in the blood of heroes and heroines, and if so, how does it maximise that flavour? On the other hand, this story claims that it comes from hell or from a basement. Perhaps that's why it loves the sun so much — until it came to the surface, it spent its entire existence never seeing sunlight. Is that what makes it risk everything to sunbathe?

Anyway, if you feel inspired, I think you should keep working on the article at your own pace. It's good now, but you have the chance to make your guild totem's article and backstory great, if you like 😊 -- Djonni (talk) 05:15, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for the feedback. I'll definitely put more work into it. I didn't want the writing to feel forced so I stopped where I did.
--His portliness (talk) 06:25, 12 October 2020 (UTC)
Heh, yeah, that's not unwise! It can be hard to judge your writing as you're writing it, and a bit of distance definitely helps! 😄 -- Djonni (talk) 07:38, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

Picture troubles

I tried adding a picture to 12th step, but it showed up double with some random text on the side. Any explanation? What an I doing wrong? --His portliness (talk) 09:00, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

I fixed it for you in this edit. The infoboxes take care of the formatting of the picture so that it's consistent, and as hard as possible for people to screw up mobile views (you'd be surprised how easy this is to do, and even with the infoboxes we still have users who struggle when using mobile devices with narrow screens like iPhones<=5ish generation).
So the template wants just the image name, and none of the [[File:...|stuff]], or the formatting and display happens twice with some junk, as you discovered. 😊 Without access under the hood of the wiki code, which no players have (nor are likely to get any time soon), there's not way around this, I'm afraid. -- Djonni (talk) 09:17, 12 October 2020 (UTC)