Difference between revisions of "Template talk:Navbox guidelines"

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(Diary guideline)
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:: As I can understand it can be interesting to have an explanation of some diary entry (and there is a forum topic for that I think), I'd mention that the idea of a list of diary entry (and earthly news) was considered innapropriate by the devs. And I don't think creating articles for every diary entry would help devs change their mind on that particular subject.  
 
:: As I can understand it can be interesting to have an explanation of some diary entry (and there is a forum topic for that I think), I'd mention that the idea of a list of diary entry (and earthly news) was considered innapropriate by the devs. And I don't think creating articles for every diary entry would help devs change their mind on that particular subject.  
 
:: Then, that's my opinion, let's hope some others give their opinion. --[[User:WardPhoenix|WardPhoenix]] ([[User talk:WardPhoenix|talk]]) 12:20, 30 December 2019 (UTC)
 
:: Then, that's my opinion, let's hope some others give their opinion. --[[User:WardPhoenix|WardPhoenix]] ([[User talk:WardPhoenix|talk]]) 12:20, 30 December 2019 (UTC)
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::: Yeah, so... My thinking on this is pretty similar to {{u|WardPhoenix}}'s. In terms of frequency, we currently have an average of ≅{{#expr:({{PAGESINCATEGORY:Diary references}}/{{GE}}) round 6}} diary articles written per day in Godville history. And in the last 9 years, that average drops to 0.
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::: So, I guess, for me, I begin by asking what the ''purpose'' of a guideline page is, and why we have guidelines for the pages we do and not for, say, [[:Category:Backguild]], [[:Category:Journalism]], and [[:Category:Tournaments]], all of which are much larger categories than [[:Category:Diary entries]]. And to me, the answer is, Guidelines are there to provide helpful, friendly advice and guidelines for both new and experienced users, to ensure that pages created in a certain category:
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:::* Look great
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:::* Have good content, and
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:::* Are a good fit with all the other pages like them, meeting the norms and standards thereof.
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:::There ''are'' no norms or standards for diary pages. There ''is'' no demand for their creation. The only page in the category ''has '''no''' content'' worth speaking of, it's literally copy-pasted straight from the pages HHGTTG without a ''single word'' of original content or commentary of any kind. The [[Special:Redirect/revision/18131|''very first'']] edit to that page not done by its original creator removed it from its categories and marked it as needing a total rewrite because it's ''rubbish'', should never have existed in the first place, and if it had been created by anyone ''other'' than the moderator of the Godwiki, that same moderator would have blanked it, marked it for deletion, and given the author a rude {{tl|warning}} about it. Honestly, I've been tempted to just blank and delete the damn think myself a dozen times, but it's just so old now it doesn't seem worth getting rid of any more.
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:::So, as WardPhoenix already pointed out, there's nothing ''special'' about Diary pages that merits a guideline, the general advice in the [[Creators Manual]] is completely adequate for anyone wishing to create such a page.
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:::Just like we don't have guidelines for [[:Category:Backguild]], [[:Category:Journalism]], [[:Category:Tournaments]], etc, I see no need at all for one specifically for a dead category that nobody seems interesting in contributing to. In the unlikely event that this changes one day, we can revisit the issue. Meanwhile, in the event that {{u|Cham Almighty}} or {{u|SourceRunner}} find their way to this conversation (I'll be talkbacking you both), I'm actually quite interested in what you both think about this, as you two are thoughtful contributors to Godville culture at large, and both work professionally in writing and research in some way. -- [[User:Djonni|Djonni]] ([[User talk:Djonni|talk]]) 13:09, 30 December 2019 (UTC)

Revision as of 13:09, 30 December 2019

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Template:Navbox guidelines page.

  • Be polite
  • Assume good faith
  • No personal attacks
  • Do not bite the newcomers
  • Respond in a mature manner
  • Be welcoming
  • Maintain civility at all times

Upgraded renamed and reorganized

As my edit summary says, for the changes I just performed, I:

  • Upgraded the source code to use {{Navbox}}. (Our last one! Except for {{Navboxseasonalevents}}, which is a bit of a special case.)
  • Used internally. (Many are still using {{Navbox list}}, those are slated to be updated but the changes are minor and not urgent.)
  • Split the long list into three categories
  • Dropped the link to Guideline: Diary Articles completely

It's those last two that some might find objectionable. The long list of titles just felt cluttered and disorganized, all splayed out in alpha order, so I tried to use the categories as a way to prioritize them a bit. But, that involved making subjective calls about those priorities, so I am certainly open to revisiting or eliminating the split.

Guideline: Diary Articles, OTOH... it's not just that I had no idea we even had such a guideline. Nor that there's still only one such article, in all this time. The reason I dropped it was mostly that, after reading it, I genuinely couldn't really see why we'd want to encourage more such articles! It just seems like overkill, IMHO. But if others disagree, it can easily be put back, and added to the slate for eventual redesign/update (hopefully). And anyway, the link was only dropped from the navbox. The page is still there, and still linked to from anywhere else it has been. -- FeRDNYC (talk) 07:33, 5 April 2019 (UTC)

Good job! I won't debate the diary guideline, I don't even understand why it exist in the first place. Back to the topic, I would suggest a slight adjustment regarding categories, mainly because "other content" tick me off for some reasons i dunno wryy.
I'd seperate Hero,God and Guild in their own category (Player-related content or whatever better name) and add Town to the Geography and Entertainment one (as a Godville's World content or whatever better name)
That's just a totally personal and subjective opinion, but I think that would makes more sense, especially for the player related ones. --WardPhoenix (talk) 08:42, 5 April 2019 (UTC)
That's fair. Honestly I was sort of thinking along the same lines, but the main sticking point was that I didn't want to demote Town articles to anything other than the primary group, since they're our most complete and probably most polished class of articles.
But I agree that the three you mentioned have a natural fit as "divine content" (I think I'll label it), and rather than grouping the geographic ones I think I'll just mix all three back into the main group. Getting 6 items out of the list makes it a lot more manageable, so I think that'll be fine. Thanks! -- FeRDNYC (talk) 16:43, 5 April 2019 (UTC)

Diary guideline

Hi there, gonna tag User:Uni34 on this topic as I would like to know why we should consider adding back the Guideline: Diary Articles to the available guidelines.

Personally, I don't see a single information on that old and unused Guideline that could be useful. If it was about the use of {{Diary}} template, well the documentation is enough I'd say, and the template is mentionned in the Creators Manual. -- WardPhoenix (talk) 11:05, 30 December 2019 (UTC)

There is a diary article. —Uni34 (talk) 11:22, 30 December 2019 (UTC)
That's not enough to justify the existence of that guideline IMO, especially considering that the sole article was written almost 10 years ago and that's it, only maintenance and formating followed. More argumentation would be appreciated!
As I can understand it can be interesting to have an explanation of some diary entry (and there is a forum topic for that I think), I'd mention that the idea of a list of diary entry (and earthly news) was considered innapropriate by the devs. And I don't think creating articles for every diary entry would help devs change their mind on that particular subject.
Then, that's my opinion, let's hope some others give their opinion. --WardPhoenix (talk) 12:20, 30 December 2019 (UTC)
Yeah, so... My thinking on this is pretty similar to WardPhoenix's. In terms of frequency, we currently have an average of ≅0.000259 diary articles written per day in Godville history. And in the last 9 years, that average drops to 0.
So, I guess, for me, I begin by asking what the purpose of a guideline page is, and why we have guidelines for the pages we do and not for, say, Category:Backguild, Category:Journalism, and Category:Tournaments, all of which are much larger categories than Category:Diary entries. And to me, the answer is, Guidelines are there to provide helpful, friendly advice and guidelines for both new and experienced users, to ensure that pages created in a certain category:
  • Look great
  • Have good content, and
  • Are a good fit with all the other pages like them, meeting the norms and standards thereof.
There are no norms or standards for diary pages. There is no demand for their creation. The only page in the category has no content worth speaking of, it's literally copy-pasted straight from the pages HHGTTG without a single word of original content or commentary of any kind. The very first edit to that page not done by its original creator removed it from its categories and marked it as needing a total rewrite because it's rubbish, should never have existed in the first place, and if it had been created by anyone other than the moderator of the Godwiki, that same moderator would have blanked it, marked it for deletion, and given the author a rude {{warning}} about it. Honestly, I've been tempted to just blank and delete the damn think myself a dozen times, but it's just so old now it doesn't seem worth getting rid of any more.
So, as WardPhoenix already pointed out, there's nothing special about Diary pages that merits a guideline, the general advice in the Creators Manual is completely adequate for anyone wishing to create such a page.
Just like we don't have guidelines for Category:Backguild, Category:Journalism, Category:Tournaments, etc, I see no need at all for one specifically for a dead category that nobody seems interesting in contributing to. In the unlikely event that this changes one day, we can revisit the issue. Meanwhile, in the event that Cham Almighty or SourceRunner find their way to this conversation (I'll be talkbacking you both), I'm actually quite interested in what you both think about this, as you two are thoughtful contributors to Godville culture at large, and both work professionally in writing and research in some way. -- Djonni (talk) 13:09, 30 December 2019 (UTC)