Difference between revisions of "Talk:Main Page/Archive"

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=2011=
 
  
Love the new main page! Thanks Spode
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* [[Talk:Main Page/Archive/2011-2017|2011-2017]]
 
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* [[Talk:Main Page/Archive/2018|2018]]
=2012=
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* [[Talk:Main Page/Archive/2019|2019]]
 
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* [[Talk:Main Page/Archive/2020|2020]]
Sorry for the complete lack of wiki experience, but I logged in today and noticed that the main page had been blanked.  I reverted to the latest non-blank instance I found, if that is not the proper procedure, please let me know and fix it correctly.  My edit doesn't have the random picture set up correctly.  Same thing with this edit, I'm brand new at this, any information on the "proper" way to use the talk page would be appreciated. -Function
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* [[Talk:Main Page/Archive/2021|2021]]
 
 
This wiki needs a lot of work. Most of the articles here are rubbish. There are about 900 articles total, but about 700 are guild pages (most of which are only a few lines long).  Another 100 or so have been marked for deletion because they aren't related to the game.  That leaves about 100 pages of actual real game content. Moreover, a ton of the articles don't have categories.  I've been trying to add categories, but I can't do it alone.  Ultimately, we just need people to write articles on game subjects and stop writing guild articles. Wanna see what I've done, click [http://wiki.godvillegame.com/index.php?title=Special:Contributions&limit=500&target=BlueStapler here].  I've given up writing summaries of my edits too. -–[[User:BlueStapler|BlueStapler]]
 
 
 
The article count on the main page appears to be wrong. Right now, it says there are 961 articles. I think this number is too low.  Specifically, there are 874 "Guilds" articles and 164 "Monsters" articles. Those two combined equal 1038 articles (which is obviously more than 961).  I also know that articles from those two categories don't overlap because I've looked at nearly all of them. Add in all the other articles that have been categorized and I estimate there are around 2000 articles.  -–[[User:BlueStapler|BlueStapler]]
 
 
 
What was the purpose of the 2 September 2012 changes? --[[User:BlueStapler|BlueStapler]] 11:14, 2 September 2012 (BST)
 
 
 
Why were the "Picture of the Day" and the "You will be logged in automatically . . ." language removed yesterday?  Since I didn't see an explanation of why they were removed, I put them back by reverting to the 15 September 2012 version of the page.  If they were removed for a purpose, sorry. Feel free to just undo my 29 September 2012 edits. --[[User:BlueStapler|BlueStapler]] 03:51, 29 September 2012 (BST)
 
 
 
=2016=
 
 
 
im requesting a article about this game to wikipedia about this game hopefully editors in wikipedia with the experience to start one will notice --[[User:Hanz24|Hanz24]] ([[User talk:Hanz24|talk]]) 18:59, 13 April 2016 (UTC)Hanz24
 
 
 
====Sidebar problem====
 
 
 
The "Main page" link on the sidebar is actually a link to "INVALID-PAGE," which in turn is a redirect to the appropriate Main_Page link. This seems like it should be fine, but it has the unfortunate side effect of leaving "Redirected from INVALID-TITLE" at the top of the main page after you've used the link. It also causes problems with namespaces, which you can see if you visit a page under a different namespace and then click on "Main page."
 
 
 
I'm not sure how to fix this, so if someone with sufficient rights could check this out, that would be great. [[User:Benjamaster1|Benjamaster1]] ([[User talk:Benjamaster1|talk]]) 22:48, 18 February 2016 (UTC)
 
: So, it turns out that the redirect through '''INVALID-TITLE''' happens because [https://wiki.godvillegame.com/index.php?title=Special%3AAllMessages&prefix=&filter=modified&lang=en&limit=100&offset=Anonymous someone set] the <code>mainpage</code> System Message to an empty string. This message, which is meant to contain the title of the main wiki page, and which the sidebar _uses_ to create its link to the main page, cannot be blank because that is, in fact, an invalid title.
 
: ''Why'' that was done, one can only guess. My suspicion is that it was an attempt to get [[Main Page]] to show up ''without'' a title at the top of the page — which, you'll notice, didn't work since the title still shows as 'Main Page'. But whatever the reason, it doesn't work as intended due to the fact that the invalid title causes MediaWiki to revert back to its default string, and it should really be reset to clear up these issues. But, only a wiki admin can do that. -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 13:14, 31 July 2018 (UTC)
 
 
 
::Impressive sleuthing to discover that's the issue without actually having said admin access. Hopefully this will help the ''Hypothetical Future Admin'' resolve the issue quickly and easily at some point in future! --[[User:Djonni|Djonni]] ([[User talk:Djonni|talk]]) 08:56, 2 August 2018 (UTC)
 
 
 
::: I submitted a note about the issue, and a pointer to this discussion, via the Ideabox "fix a bug" option, so hopefully that'll get some attention from Godville admins. -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 23:26, 2 August 2018 (UTC)
 
 
 
:::: Well thanks to your investigation and bug report this issue [https://wiki.godvillegame.com/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Mainpage&curid=9&diff=86223&oldid=19 appears to have been fixed]! Thank you {{god|Godville}} and {{god|FeRDNYC}}!
 
 
 
:::: I'm moving this topic to the archive as it's resolved. --[[User:Djonni|Djonni]] ([[User talk:Djonni|talk]]) 05:41, 4 August 2018 (UTC)
 
 
 
=2017=
 
 
 
It would be great if the [https://wiki.godvillegame.com/Omnibus_List Omnibus List] could be returned to drop down boxes instead of this ugly jumbled lists which are not mobile friendly that [[User:Rizizuns]] broke. --[[User:ICancerous|ICancerous]] ([[User talk:ICancerous|talk]]) 03:09, 7 July 2017 (UTC)
 
:Archiving this since the Omnibus layout has since been redone. You will also, in fact, find the [[Talk:Omnibus List|Omnibus List talk page]] has an active discussion of potential future changes to the Omnibus' structure. --[[User:Djonni|Djonni]] ([[User talk:Djonni|talk]]) 09:04, 9 June 2018 (UTC)
 
 
 
=2018=
 
 
 
== Formatting Infoboxes in the mobile view ==
 
 
 
I'm considering a rather radical change to how the formatting is done to embed Infoboxes in wiki articles. (Infoboxes are the boxes in the upper-right corner of many articles, generated via templates like {{tl|Monster}} or {{tl|Town}}, that present some basic stats common to articles of that type in a structured format.) This change would hopefully be virtually invisible in the desktop view, but it would greatly affect the mobile skin, for reasons I'll explain.
 
 
 
So, because this would be such a big change, I wanted to seek out input and feedback on both the theoretical and practical aspects:
 
# The ''idea itself''
 
#: Do people feel this is actually an improvement, or do they prefer the way it is now?
 
# The ''implementation''
 
#: Any bugs or technical issues that show up for people using different browsers/devices/etc.
 
 
 
Basically, the current mobile skin has a few unusual CSS rules that were thrown into it, no doubt to work around issues with formatting in the app browser. One of them, and IMHO the most problematic, is the one that forces all HTML tables in the article content to fill the entire width of the display. Since Infoboxes are tables, they're all affected by this rule, and the results are IMNSHO extremely poor. But, since it's in the site CSS, there's no way to turn that rule off without admin acces to edit that CSS.
 
 
 
However, I've found that it's possible to ''work around'' the rule, by abusing (I'll admit it) the code that handles right-aligned, thumbnail-sized embedded images. Those images are displayed in a very '''smart''' bit of code (in contrast to the heavy-handed table overrides) that responds to the width of the display device, formatting them normally (right-aligned, with text flowing to their left) when there's room, and automatically pulling them into the center of the screen with '''no''' text on either side if the display is narrower. In my testing I've discovered that the same logic can be activated for Infoboxes, and I feel it looks far better on both wide and narrow devices.
 
 
 
I've put two examples of my proposed formatting change onto a single page, [[User:FeRDNYC/TestMonster]] (ignore the name). There you can see copies of the body content for both the [[Ballpoint Penguin]] and [[Herowin]] articles, but with the Infoboxes updated to leverage the responsive image-alignment code.
 
 
 
If you view that test page on a mobile device, or in the mobile skin on the desktop (by scrolling to the very bottom and clicking "Mobile view"), you'll be able to see how the Infoboxes would be formatted following this change. Both original articles are linked to, so you can compare them to my version.
 
 
 
If anyone has a moment, please do check it out, especially if you have access to any type of mobile device. I've tested it in Google Chrome on my computer, and my Android phone, but I'd love to hear feedback from anyone who looks at it using an iPhone, iPad, or any other tablet device, as I don't have access to any of those devices to test it myself.
 
 
 
My thinking is, if people like this change and it doesn't cause any problems, that all of the Infobox templates across the wiki would be updated to override that <code>width=100%</code> styling and make use of the responsive formatting. Some other templates, like {{tl|Diary}} and {{tl|Diaryquest}} would probably also be included, though they'd default to being left-aligned instead. -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 15:09, 1 July 2018 (UTC)
 
 
 
:I have noticed problems with infobox formatting on mobile too, and wondered how amenable it would be to improvement. I admire your creative adaptation of existing features into unexpected implementations ;)
 
 
 
:I'll have a chance to test it on an android tablet screen and in a handful of desktop browsers in the next day or two, but I've decommissioned all my iOS devices so someone else will need to take up that testing. Meanwhile, I might try to hunt for some of those infoboxes where I found myself cringing on mobile, if I can find them again, and try to view the test examples you've made up in as many various ways as I'm able. --[[User:Djonni|Djonni]] ([[User talk:Djonni|talk]]) 03:14, 2 July 2018 (UTC)
 
:: Cool, thanks. For the most part, the ones that have seemed problematic on mobile were probably ones where the forced width causes weird explosions of the table borders. Like, you'll have an infobox that randomly grows a big empty column to the right of its content. There's a bunch of that scattered around the wiki.
 
:: If the width is no longer being forcibly expanded (or, if it '''is''', but only within the <code>&lt;div&gt;</code> container that holds it, which is where the width is constrained) that should no longer happen. Honestly that issue is the main impetus for me doing this, as there's no good way to account for a CSS-forced <code>width=100% !important</code> from within the HTML source. -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 11:48, 3 July 2018 (UTC)
 
 
 
== It's time: Diary and Diaryquest templates now default to new "superhero" style ==
 
 
 
I've just updated both templates to use the new superhero style by default. As a result, all quest and diary boxes on the wiki should now go from looking like this:
 
 
 
{{Diaryquest | style= hero | number = 42 | status = 24 | text = Invent the wheel}}
 
{{Diary | style=hero | text = 4:20 Wrote something irreverent and snarky about a town or quest or whatever}}
 
 
 
 
 
To looking like this:
 
 
 
{{Diaryquest | number = 42 | status = 24 | text = Invent the wheel}}
 
{{Diary | text = 4:20 Wrote something irreverent and snarky about a town or quest or whatever}}
 
 
 
You can revert boxes to the old style by adding "<tt>style=hero</tt>" to the template parameters. -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 08:47, 10 June 2018 (UTC)
 
 
 
== Larger images in {{tl|Monster}} and {{tl|Pet}} articles ==
 
 
 
You may notice that [[:Category:Monsters|Monster]] and [[:Category:Pets|Pet]] articles show off their subjects a little better now. I've increased the infobox image width from <code>200px</code> to <code>300px</code>, a 50% size increase that better fits the infoboxes' <code>25em</code> width. -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 01:29, 3 August 2018 (UTC)
 
 
 
:Looks much better now on both desktop and mobile (6" android w/ chrome). The monsters will look even better once the code has been tidied up to remove the dead right-hand column :) --[[User:Djonni|Djonni]] ([[User talk:Djonni|talk]]) 02:04, 3 August 2018 (UTC)
 
 
 
==Mobile layout of main page==
 
I'd be great if this wiki could have a "mobile version" or something, but I don't know how to properly check for that. --[[User:ElectroChip|ElectroChip]] ([[User talk:ElectroChip|talk]]) 15:10, 9 May 2017 (UTC)
 
 
 
:I agree (as do most users, I think) that the main page has some significant layout problems on mobile (mainly around the grey '''Welcome to the GodWiki''' block at the top). Reading [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]]'s [[#HTML layout and the width attribute|brief summary below]] of the challenges of setting layouts can give you some idea why, but the root of the problem is that, with no active admin at the moment, there's nobody right now with the powers required to modernise the site's CSS to be responsive to the dimensions of the window. Anything we do in the meantime will be a kludgy hack that ''might'' improve some layout issues, but generally we'll have to choose between the front page looking great on desktop ''or'' on mobile, not both.
 
 
 
:That said, if anybody wants to take a bash at a rebuild of said grey block, please do! I'd suggest pasting any proposed changes into this talk page first so that we can all compare how they go on our various desktop and mobile screens first :) --[[User:Djonni|Djonni]] ([[User talk:Djonni|talk]]) 09:04, 9 June 2018 (UTC)
 
:: See [[User:FeRDNYC/Sandbox]] — it's very much a WIP, but in my testing it ''sizes'' properly (but not "formats" 100% properly, '''yet''') on mobile devices. The gray-box bulleted items are coded as a single bulleted list, which uses a fairly new (past 3-4 years) CSS column-formatting feature to split itself up according to the available space. So, hopefully it's supported everywhere it needs to be. <strike>I already have a plan to clean up the strip of links at the bottom of the gray box, and</strike> I'm still working out the balancing of the various sections ''below'' the gray box so that they don't get chopped up by the column balancing. -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 22:35, 2 August 2018 (UTC)
 
::: Never mind the struck-out part, I sorted that out. I removed a couple of items from the horizontal list (the Guidebook and the Categories list), because (a) they're both available in the sidebar, and (b) in the case of the Guidebook, I just feel it's a ''lot'' dated, and could really use some updating if we want to point people at it.
 
::: That part of the box is formatted as four one-item columns, which reduces a '''''little''''' weirdly as it narrows. (It first goes down to three columns, but since there are only four items it only fills the left two of them, leaving a big empty area to the right. Then it drops to two columns and everything balances again.) But honestly, as a tradeoff for it being readable on all screen sizes I think that's acceptable. Please do weigh in if you have any thoughts, though. -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 23:20, 2 August 2018 (UTC)
 
 
 
::::I admit, I had noticed the edits to your sandbox and had a peek the other day. I'm excited about the changes and progress, and look forward to a modernised main page! :) One note &mdash; with the 2 columns reflowing in the lower section, on desktop I am currently seeing "Edition May 14, 2018" orphaned at the top of the second column. I'm not sure if there's any sane way to prevent that behaviour, just worth noting at this stage.
 
::::And yes, the Guidebook pages need a ''huge'' amount of work. I'd mentally earmarked that... for mañana. --[[User:Djonni|Djonni]] ([[User talk:Djonni|talk]]) 02:12, 3 August 2018 (UTC)
 
::::: Yeah, that issue is what I was referring to, with my (somewhat redundant, as I balance the balanced balancing) note about "working out the balancing of the various sections ''below'' the gray box so that they don't get chopped up by the column balancing." It's not ''meant'' to do that — and honestly, if it '''wasn't''' doing that I'd probably consider it complete, since with the horizontal list "fixed" well enough it's kind of the only issue left — but currently, it still '''is''' doing that. And I suspect is going to keep doing that, as long as I'm (ab)using columns for that part of the layout.
 
::::: I'll probably have to switch that section from CSS columns to a different layout system, possibly CSS flexbox, to make it keep those DIVs intact. Just as soon as I work out how (or if) I can convince flexbox-or-whatever to auto-adjust to width, the way columns does so nicely. (And without requiring any media queries, which inline styling can't use.) -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 02:52, 3 August 2018 (UTC)
 
{{outdent|::::::}}Okay, checkout [[User:FeRDNYC/Sandbox]] again, which I think is now ready as a complete reimplementation of the [[Main Page]] that works at all display widths, including on mobile. It depends on two new-''er'' technologies, CSS columns and CSS flexbox, but support for both of those was sorted out long enough ago that everything seems to support them now, including the Godville app's browser (at least on Android). So, it should reflow to a comfortable layout everywhere, on screens both wide and narrow. On very narrow screens, note that the Intro to Godwiki section actually places itself '''before''' the Featured Article section, an enhancement made possible by flexbox. (The top row is actually a two-item flexbox, flowing in row-'''reverse''' order, and the Intro section is the ''first'' item in that part of the page.) -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 02:07, 6 August 2018 (UTC)
 
: So, all of this nonsense with the new infoboxes makes me realize that I'll need to check how [[User:FeRDNYC/Sandbox]] looks in the WPTouch skin, in addition to the other two (Vector/desktop and Minerva/mobile). Not looking forward to that, so I think I'll put it off until another day. -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 21:10, 7 August 2018 (UTC)
 
 
 
::While on hold on my phone (sigh) I took the time to check this all out and it looks just fine to me. I mean... [https://imgur.com/a/jYHkInm for given value of fine].
 
::It looks fantastic on desktop and mobile browser (Vector & Minerva) and I think it should go live immediately. The only thing worth considering is to add a note to the bottom with the [http://wiki.godvillegame.com/index.php?title=Talk:Main_Page&mobileaction=toggle_view_mobile magic link] for WPTouch users. Perhaps:
 
 
 
:::<code><nowiki>Enable [http://wiki.godvillegame.com/index.php?title=Main_Page&mobileaction=toggle_view_mobile mobile-friendly view].</nowiki></code>
 
 
 
::or something similarly straightforward would be enough? --[[User:Djonni|Djonni]] ([[User talk:Djonni|talk]]) 06:00, 13 August 2018 (UTC)
 
 
 
::: Yeah, I was thinking I'd look in the CSS for a class that might only be visible in WPTouch, in which case that link could be hidden behind that. There might not be one, but it can't hurt to look. It just means I have to dig through the three governing CSS files, which I haven't done yet.
 
 
 
::: As far as bringing it live... based on your screenshots (thanks!), I ''may'' be able to improve the WPTouch rendering a bit, first. Like, the squished-together lettering of the title is clearly a line-height issue, I should be able to specify a value to get it to stop doing that, so let me see if I can squeeze that in.
 
 
 
::: I don't know why the random image isn't... like... randoming. Or image-ing. One of those. But I'll try to figure it out. (Just, not very hard, because I care thiiiis 👌 much TBH.) -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 06:40, 14 August 2018 (UTC)
 
 
 
:::: OK, significant changes. I fixed the line height for the first two parts of the gray-box header. And, this?
 
::::: "I was thinking I'd look in the CSS for a class that might only be visible in WPTouch..."
 
:::: Believe it or not, I found one. Or, a combination of a class and an ID, each of which is hidden in either Vector or Minerva, but neither in WPTouch. So, by abusing those together, I've set it up so that at the ''far, far'' bottom of the page, a link to switch to the mobile skin should appear '''only''' when the page is viewed with the WPTouch skin.
 
 
 
:::: Haven't really looked at the random image thing all that closely, yet. It seems to be mostly working OK for me, so it's ''possible'' nothing's wrong, and you just caught a bad image pull when you took the screenshot. Possible. (Unlikely.) -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 09:02, 14 August 2018 (UTC)
 
 
 
:::: Oh, DUH. Actually, there was nothing wrong with the randomimage in your screenshot, it just happened to catch that tiny "fast-forward" type icon, so the caption squished underneath it. Well, that'll happen. (I actually could move the text ''out'' of the image caption, now that I've got the page resizing properly, and it wouldn't do that anymore. I'll mull it over. Wouldn't really make too-small image pulls all '''that''' much prettier, anyway.)
 
 
 
:::: So, I guess this is maybe ready already, now? Hmm. -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 09:05, 14 August 2018 (UTC)
 
 
 
::::: What the hey. Taking live. If it breaks anything I'm '''sure''' we'll hear about it. -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 05:33, 16 August 2018 (UTC)
 
 
 
::::: I got rid of the text in the random image box entirely, BTW. It's already titled "Random Image", so the caption was really kind of redundant. And it had a tendency to format poorly with different sized images, and/or different sized screens/skins. -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 06:40, 17 August 2018 (UTC)
 
 
 
{{Outdent|:::::}}My goodness it looks '''SO''' good. Haven't checked it in WPTouch (because ''yech'') but certainly on all my devices in both of the other stylesheets it looks outstanding.
 
Though a part of me kinda misses how inaccurately named the ''Featured Article of the Week'' was 😋 --[[User:Djonni|Djonni]] ([[User talk:Djonni|talk]]) 17:37, 17 August 2018 (UTC)
 
 
 
:Yup, even on ''yech'' WPTouch it looks fantastic (and is even more noticeable in contrast to how it was). One thing I've only just realised — on the mobile skins there's no link to [[Talk:Main Page]]. It lacks the normal "Discuss" button at the bottom. I'm so used to coming here from [[Special:RecentChanges|recent changes]] that I'd never even noticed that before. Makes it harder for folks on mobile devices to find this, or even know it's here. '''#mobileproblems''' --[[User:Djonni|Djonni]] ([[User talk:Djonni|talk]]) 17:54, 17 August 2018 (UTC)
 
 
 
:: Heh. "Though a part of me kinda misses how inaccurately named the ''Featured Article of the Week'' was" — I'd actually changed that last week, on the old version, so that predates this update.
 
 
 
:: I had, at some point, noticed that there's no link here from the main page, making it an especially poor place to use for announcements and such. Oh well. I'm developing a very zen ability to just not really care about mobile's foibles, as there are so many. -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 20:22, 17 August 2018 (UTC)
 
 
 
::: I added a note at the bottom of {{tl|Mainpageintro}} about the main page's Discussion area, with a link to it for mobile users. Which makes the Intro box quite a bit longer than the Featured Article box, but... meh. Now we have the option to feature longer portions of the selected article, if we want. -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 04:37, 18 August 2018 (UTC)
 
 
 
== New shortcuts for numbers with superscripted ordinal (e.g. {{1st}}) ==
 
 
 
I just borrowed the {{tl|Ordinal}} template from Wikipedia, and created convenience templates {{tl|1st}} {{tl|2nd}} and {{tl|3rd}} for anyone who wants to write numbers all ''fancy'', like:
 
 
 
{|class="wikitable" style="text-align: right"
 
! Code !! Output
 
|-
 
| <code><nowiki>{{1st}}</nowiki></code> || {{1st}}
 
|-
 
| <code><nowiki>5{{2nd}}</nowiki></code> || 5{{2nd}}
 
|-
 
| <code><nowiki>-10{{3rd}}</nowiki></code> || -10{{3rd}}
 
|-
 
| <code><nowiki>{{Ordinal|57}}</nowiki></code> || {{Ordinal|57}}
 
|}
 
 
 
'''NOTE:''' Please do not use these shortcuts in links or template calls. "{{1st}}" is not the same as "1st", and they cannot be interchanged in code, i.e.:
 
* The [[1st Line of Defense]] guild article '''cannot''' be linked to with <code><nowiki>[[{{1st}} Line of Defense]]</nowiki></code>.
 
* If you wish to get extra-fancy, you can write:
 
::<code><nowiki>[[1st Line of Defense|{{1st}} Line of Defense]]</nowiki></code>
 
: which produces: [[1st Line of Defense|{{Ordinal|1}} Line of Defense]].
 
 
 
Also, be aware that unlike Wikipedia's Ordinal, ours only does superscripts. They're always enabled. -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 06:10, 10 July 2018 (UTC)
 
 
 
:: I've put this neat little template [[Djonni#Vitalstatistix|to use]] in my page's infobox! Very nice :) --[[User:Djonni|Djonni]] ([[User talk:Djonni|talk]]) 08:54, 2 August 2018 (UTC)
 
 
 
== First two mobile-friendly infoboxes are live! (Please test!!) ==
 
 
 
Everyone, the first mobile-friendly Infobox (see [[Talk:Main Page/Archive#Formatting Infoboxes in the mobile view|"Formatting Infoboxes in the mobile view"]]) is now live. All [[:Category:Pets|Pets]] articles that use a [[Template:Pet]] infobox (that would be [https://wiki.godvillegame.com/index.php?title=Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Pet&hidelinks=1 all of these]) will now have an infobox that will adapt to your screen size when viewing the page.
 
 
 
: '''Update:''' As of 23 July 2018 02:45 (UTC), [[Template:Town]] is also upgraded with the mobile-friendly layout , so on any page that uses {{tl|Town}} the infobox should adapt to the screen size automatically. -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 02:50, 23 July 2018 (UTC)
 
 
 
I'd like to ask as many users as possible, if they have a chance, to look at as many Pet articles as they can, and on as many types of devices as we can get sampling from. Whether it's a tablet device, any model iPhone or Android phone, heck even an old Palm Pre or whatever. And if you just want to check it out but don't have access to any of those, you can use the Mobile view link at the bottom of any page in the Godwiki to switch into the mobile skin from your desktop browser. In fact, that can be some of the best testing, because then you can change the window size and see how the page responds.
 
 
 
What you ''should'' see, if there are no problems, are:
 
# Right off the bat, the infobox is cleaner in ways you probably won't notice, but trust me, it's there. While I was updating the code I corrected a lot of structural errors that were causing lots of extra table rows, double borders, etc. All of that should be gone.
 
# '''Other than''' that, in the desktop browser view there should be no visible difference whatsoever.
 
# In the mobile view, what you should see is a page that keeps the normal formatting with the infobox on the right and text flowing to its left, ''unless'' the window/screen becomes too narrow, in which case the infobox will center itself on the page and push the text down below it. This should happen pretty seamlessly in a web browser (in mobile view) as you narrow the window.
 
# On a phone, most likely the page will start out with the centered, no-text-alongside infobox, as it's meant to.
 
 
 
Please report any issues you see, either here or on my [[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk page]]. I'd like to get the rest of the infoboxes updated next week, if there are no concerns about the Pet articles. -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 02:54, 21 July 2018 (UTC)
 
: I just fixed a couple of issues with the {{tl|Pet}} infobox sizing on mobile, one that blew out the frame too wide on narrower devices, the other that made the box too _narrow_ on wider screens (like tablets). -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 10:20, 22 July 2018 (UTC)
 
:: I checked on your update to the pet template, and on my iPhone 5S, the box is blown out to the left. It does look a lot better, minus the shift to the left -- [[User:Holy Spirit of Hell|Holy Spirit of Hell]] ([[User talk:Holy Spirit of Hell|talk]]) 01:08, 24 July 2018 (UTC)
 
::: Hmm, thanks. I'll take a look. Not immediately showing up on my phone, but I'll poke around with the mobile browser skin, and some device simulators if need be. Did you happen to notice if it was the same on every pet page (or, if you looked at more than one, all of those)? -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 03:29, 26 July 2018 (UTC)
 
::: Sorry, H.S.H., I can't seem to replicate. I tested the site in Safari on an emulated iPhone 5 and an emulated iPad Air, ''as well as'' in '''both''' Safari and Firefox on a ''real'' iPhone 6S (thank you, BrowserStack free trial!), and in every case the infoboxes looked as expected in both device orientations.
 
::: I captured a screenshot of the [[Terror Bull]] article on every one of those platforms/browsers I mentioned, in both orientations. There's a gallery post showing all of them here: https://imgur.com/a/P6qMfGO — can you take a look and let me know if anything there fails to match what you're seeing on your 5S? -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 04:28, 26 July 2018 (UTC)
 
::: In re-reading your comment, H.S.H, I realized I should maybe define "blown out" as I used it to describe the old infoboxes. The issue with the existing Infobox templates (the ones I haven't updated) is that the wiki mobile skin forces them to 100% width on any smaller-width screens. That can cause the columns of the infobox to become stretched wider than intended in ugly, weird ways. For example, here's the [[Bully Mammoth]] article on my Galaxy S6, in landscape orientation: https://imgur.com/a/WEA4uea . You can see that there's a large box to the right of the infobox, because the table that contains it is forced to be the entire width of the screen.
 
::: With the new infobox changes, that won't happen. (or, it's not supposed to, unless there's a bug in my changes.) Instead, what's ''supposed'' to happen is that the box will keep its specified width and just center itself on the page. If you're seeing boxes '''shifted''' to the left, but not distorted (improperly sized)... well, I'm not sure what's going on there, since as I said in my previous post I wasn't able to reproduce it in Safari or Firefox on BrowserStack's emulator farm. But, since I wasn't running the Godville app on iOS, it's possible that browser is slightly different. Still, if you can give me more details on the issue you were seeing, I'll try to look into it further. Thanks. -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 06:15, 29 July 2018 (UTC)
 
:::: It's now been a week since Holy Spirit of Hell's report of iPhone issues with the new infoboxes, and still no word back. H.S.H. doesn't appear to have been around the wiki much in that time, though... I guess I'll wait to the end of the week, and then decide how to proceed if I still haven't heard anything. -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 01:30, 2 August 2018 (UTC)
 
 
 
::: <span id=Djonni_20180802>{{god|Holy Spirit of Hell}}</span>, when you say "on iPhone", are you using the Godville app's built-in browser for viewing the wiki? And, if yes, have you told the built-in browser you want the "desktop" view?
 
::: I ask because, for unfathomable reasons, the app's built-in browser's 'desktop' view uses totally unique CSS that is '''''just awful''''' and breaks a lot of basic Wiki formatting. What you describe sounds like standard SNAFU behaviour in that use case. --[[User:Djonni|Djonni]] ([[User talk:Djonni|talk]]) 08:51, 2 August 2018 (UTC)
 
 
 
: Apologies for (re)joining the conversation on this late, I've been organising a move to a different hemisphere and it's taken more cognitive budget than I had available on a daily basis. While I'm not finished, I've passed enough milestones that my brain has a little more space again!
 
:Taking a look at the Pets and Towns infoboxes live across a sampling of pages they look good so far on a 6" device (Chrome on Android) and a 5" device (Chrome on Android). All my other mobile devices are packed into storage, sadly!
 
:I'd say it's ready to be rolled out further, pending HSH adding further information above! --[[User:Djonni|Djonni]] ([[User talk:Djonni|talk]]) 08:51, 2 August 2018 (UTC)
 
:: Well, no word back from Holy Spirit of Hell after a week and a half. I left a talk page message (only just now), hoping that might get their attention, but I'm inclined to go ahead with this as-is. I'll convert the rest of the infoboxes when time permits, and if we do hear anything back I'll look into it. -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 02:15, 6 August 2018 (UTC)
 
::: Done, [[Talk:Main_Page#Remaining_Infoboxes_updated_with_mobile-friendly_code|see below]]. -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 11:19, 7 August 2018 (UTC)
 
{{outdent|::::}} Over on Holy Spirit of Hell's [[User talk:Holy Spirit of Hell|talk page]], H.S.H provided [https://imgur.com/kPAbuA9 this screenshot] of the [[Terror Bull]] rendering, which is definitely not how it's supposed to look. Still investigating. I've requested a survey of how various other Infobox configurations render on the same device, now that they're all upgraded with the new code, so I can hopefully get a handle on exactly what circumstances lead to that glitch. Hopefully that'll get us closer to figuring out the "why", and then we can work out how to prevent it. -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 19:50, 7 August 2018 (UTC)
 
 
 
: <span id="HSH_glitch_explained">'''Ohhhhhhhh''', I see what's happening!</span>
 
 
 
: The rendering that H.S.H screenshot only occurs if you view the wiki using the ''desktop skin'' on a phone-sized mobile device, which isn't really wide enough to render that skin properly. If you view the pages using the mobile skin, they look fine.
 
 
 
: One complication seems to be, if you switch to the desktop view in the Godville app mobile browser, it doesn't look like there's '''any way''' to get back to the mobile skin! The links that would normally be shown at the bottom of the page aren't there. However, this link should return the browser to the mobile skin: [http://wiki.godvillegame.com/index.php?title=Talk:Main_Page&mobileaction=toggle_view_mobile Switch to Mobile Skin].
 
 
 
: I'm not sure how to prioritize solving the rendering issue with desktop-skin-on-mobile. My initial inclination is to not really worry about it (and instead focus on getting people switched back to the mobile skin). -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 20:11, 7 August 2018 (UTC)
 
:: The issue, in a nutshell, is that the Godwiki can be rendered in one of '''three''' skins:
 
::* The standard desktop-browser skin, Vector
 
::* The mobile skin, Minerva
 
::* The desktop-site-requested-on-a-mobile-device skin, WPTouch
 
:: Without access to edit the site/skin CSS itself, it's generally possible to optimize for one or, at most, ''two'' of those, at the risk of causing issues in the third. Which is what we're seeing here. -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 20:52, 7 August 2018 (UTC)
 
 
 
::: This is what I was trying (without much success) to refer to [[#Djonni_20180802|above]]. That ''switch to mobile skin'' link you found/crafted {{god|FeRDNYC}} is '''pure gold''', I and many others have had to delete and reinstall the app to fix that! That deserves its own (pinned) Talk topic here on this page, honestly. That skin (WPTouch) causes lots of layout and formatting problems, all over the place. Hitting ''switch to desktop'' on the GodWiki in the GV app's built-in browser effectively breaks the wiki, with no (until now!) way to switch back. --[[User:Djonni|Djonni]] ([[User talk:Djonni|talk]]) 02:21, 9 August 2018 (UTC)
 
 
 
== Remaining Infoboxes updated with mobile-friendly code ==
 
 
 
I've just finished updating the {{tl|Monster}}, {{tl|Artifact}}, {{tl|Beastie}}, and {{tl|Guild}} Infobox templates with the same mobile-friendly code that was already in place on {{tl|Town}}, {{tl|Pet}}, and (the so-far-unused) {{tl|Equipment}}. That covers every article-space infobox in the system, the only remaining ones are {{tl|Hero}} and {{tl|Usergod}}/{{tl|Usergoddess}}, which I may get to at some point in the future, but they're lower priority.
 
 
 
Along the way, I cleaned up the code in all of them, to varying degrees (dependent on how bad the existing code was). And, some specific items of note:
 
* '''For {{tl|Artifact}}:'''
 
:: I fixed the auto-categorization for the specialty categories ([[:Category:Bold Artifacts]], [[:Category:Healing Artifacts]], [[:Category:Activatable Artifacts]]), which was completely broken as it was dependent on nonexistent parameters.
 
:: It now works off the <code>|type=</code> parameter, case-insensitively and ignoring whitespace, as follows:
 
::* If <code>|type = Bold</code>, place in [[:Category:Bold Artifacts]]
 
::* If <code>|type = Healing</code>, place in [[:Category:Healing Artifacts]]
 
::* If <code>|type = Activatable</code>, place in [[:Category:Activatable Artifacts]]
 
:: Also, <code>| monster = <i>something</i></code> will cause the article to be placed in [[:Category:Monsters' Artifacts]]. (This is in addition to always placing the article in [[:Category:Artifacts]].)
 
 
 
:: This means that it should no longer be necessary to manually place Categories in Artifact articles ''at all'' (if they are using {{tl|Artifact}}), and when editing an article that uses the template it is preferable to '''remove''' redundant manual categories. This is so that, if there is a mistake in the template data that changes the category when corrected, there will be no conflict between the categories exported by the template and the categories placed in the article.
 
* '''For {{tl|Guild}}:'''
 
:: This template got the biggest changes of all. In addition to '''''massive''''' code cleanup (it was a MESS)...
 
::* I completely re-wrote the processing of the multiple <code>|founder=</code> (plus <code>|founder2=</code>...<code>|founder5=</code>) parameters, to create a bulleted list of all the provided founders.
 
::* I re-wrote both the <code>|friend1=</code>...<code>|friend8=</code> and <code>|foe1=</code>...<code>|foe5=</code> processing, so that both Allies and Rivals are displayed as a bulleted list taking up a ''single'' cell, instead of one-row-per-entry like the previous code.
 
::* I increased the infobox width to <code>25em</code>. I felt that was a better fit with the new bulleted Founder(s) list, as it tends to be wider.
 
::* <code>|position=left</code> is no longer available for this template, due to the mobile-friendly code change. That's true of all the infobox templates, post-change, but this template seems to be the one where <code>position=</code> was most used. Any guild pages designed around left-aligned {{tl|Guild}} infoboxes will need to be redesigned to accommodate the right-aligned infobox. I apologize for the inconvenience, but I'm afraid it's a necessary tradeoff to get proper formatting on mobile screens.
 
 
 
If any of my changes tonight are going to be problematic for people, it's likely the changes to {{tl|Guild}}, either technically (there might be bugs) or philosophically (you might object to the decisions I made). In either case, please bring up the issues here and we'll come to a resolution. -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 11:18, 7 August 2018 (UTC)
 
 
 
== [[Template:Navboxboss-monsters]] renamed to [[Template:Navboxbosses]] ==
 
 
 
The name {{tl|Navboxboss-monsters}} just struck me as long and awkward to type, so I've renamed the template to {{tl|Navboxbosses}}. The old name is now a redirect, so existing calls will still work and you can continue to use the old, longer name if you prefer. -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 09:22, 14 August 2018 (UTC)
 
 
 
== Reformat [[List of Quests]]? ==
 
 
 
{{m|done}} — The table is now a single-column list of quests and quest type. -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 21:52, 11 September 2018 (UTC)
 
 
 
So, after determining that [[List of Quests]] looks basically awful in either mobile skin, with all of the columns squished into narrow oblivion, I'm considering reformatting it from the current doubled-up format to a single-column table like all the others. It'll make the page ''seem'' longer (and in truth they will be ''slightly'' longer in the desktop view), but that will be offset to an extent because all of the rows that are currently wrapping to two lines would flatten out to a single line. So, it won't actually be as ''much'' longer as it may seem.
 
 
 
And more to the point, it'll be vaguely readable in the mobile skin(s), which seems worth the extra length. Plus, it'll allow for column sorting and other niceties that the current format ruins.
 
 
 
I'd do the actual edit with a regular expression find/replace algorithm, downloading a copy of the page source and then re-uploading the reformatted version, I'm not crazy enough to do all that by hand. So, it wouldn't be too much of a chore. Still... any thoughts or feelings one way or the other? -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 20:19, 26 August 2018 (UTC)
 
 
 
: The silence was deafening, so I've asked at [[Talk:List of Quests#Reformat?|Talk:List of Quests]] as well. If I don't hear anything there in a few days, I'll just go for it. -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 13:56, 1 September 2018 (UTC)
 
 
 
::All sounds good, I say go ahead. —[[User:Holy Spirit of Hell|Holy Spirit of Hell]] ([[User talk:Holy Spirit of Hell|talk]]) 00:51, 3 September 2018 (UTC)
 
 
 
== New [[Template:Equipment]] ==
 
 
 
I admit, it's not ''super'' necessary, but it just felt weird that we didn't have a [[Template:Equipment]] to go with all of the other infoboxes. So, now we do. It's very simplistic, but with 117 articles in [[:Category:Equipment]] it felt right to start standardizing them. I'll probably try to go through and apply the template to those 117 articles starting next week.
 
 
 
Three items of note:
 
# This template is unique among the infoboxes in that it uses a generic image, if one is not supplied in the template call. (You can see the image on the template page.) However, it's definitely preferable to supply a specific image to override the generic one.
 
# I included the "Durability" stat that I noticed was already listed on ''many'' existing Equipment articles, even though TBH I'm not really sure that actually means anything. (Meaning, I suspect that equipment items can be found at any durability level. But, I could be wrong!)
 
# This template uses the [[Talk:Main Page#First two mobile-friendly infoboxes are live.21 .28Please test.21.21.29|new infobox code for mobile browsers]].
 
As always, please report issues, either here or at [[Template talk:Equipment]]. -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 01:15, 3 August 2018 (UTC)
 
 
 
:The absence of an equipment infobox template has occured to me as odd more than once, and I ''love'' the default image (both in principle and in the specific choice). I feel like a default image is worth considering for other infoboxes, it's a quick way to add a little polish to stubs. Perhaps the default image field might include a caption with a link to upload a {{tl|PAGENAME}}.jpg...? We've discussed #ifexists being expensive before, and it's probably unwise to include them in template defaults, but it sure would be elegant if a template found an existing PAGENAME.jpg file. Just brainstorming :) --[[User:Djonni|Djonni]] ([[User talk:Djonni|talk]]) 01:58, 3 August 2018 (UTC)
 
 
 
:: I'd be reluctant to do that (the <code>{{{PAGENAME}}}.jpg</code> thing) for two reasons. No, three. None of which have anything to do with the code performance.
 
::# The images might not be JPGs. They might be .PNG files, or GIFs.
 
::# It's preferable to let people use their own filenames for uploads.
 
::# The previous is '''especially''' true when ''replacing'' images.
 
 
 
:: Say someone uploads a <code>Terror Bull.jpg</code> image. That image may be used somewhere in some '''other''' article. Now, if someone wants to replace the image in the [[Terror Bull]] infobox, the way to do it would be to upload a new image (with a unique filename), and update the template call. If they're given the impression the image "should be" named <code>Terror Bull.jpg</code>, and they upload their new image to ''overwrite'' the old one, then it gets changed everywhere, which may not be desirable to anyone who's used that image elsewhere.
 
 
 
:: I think we could have generic, "default" images for the other infoboxes, but they should be just that: A generic image that's used '''unless''' an image filename is specified. Typing a filename into the template call isn't particularly onerous. -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 02:38, 3 August 2018 (UTC)
 
 
 
:::Mmm, you make good points there, particularly about replacing images. Perhaps just something like <code><nowiki><small>[[Special:Upload|Upload]] an image.</small></nowiki></code> would be enough. And a <code><nowiki>[[Category:Pictures needed]]</nowiki></code> might be clever, come to think of it? --[[User:Djonni|Djonni]] ([[User talk:Djonni|talk]]) 08:47, 3 August 2018 (UTC)
 
 
 
:::: I think showing an upload link makes sense — good idea. Right now {{tl|Picture}} only shows a page-edit link, which is only useful if you've already uploaded the file. Guiding people to [[Special:Upload]] as the first step in adding photos is probably more useful.
 
 
 
:::: In fact, it ''might'' be possible to auto-template the page as {{tl|Picture}}-needed if the default image is used. (Or just whenever the <code>|image=</code> parameter is missing, even in infoboxes that don't have a default image.) Whether or not that will '''actually''' work depends on whether the Godwiki css includes some form of the same classes that Wikipedia uses for message boxes, that forces them to the top of the page no matter where they're placed in the article source. Which, come to think of it, I bet it doesn't. ...Still, I can just stick the {{tl|Picture}} template '''before''' the infobox code, and it should end up in the right place.
 
 
 
:::: I'll take a swing at adding that (along with a parameter to override it, I guess, just for peace of mind) to some of the infoboxes, starting with {{tl|Equipment}}. And also have them do auto-categorization into a sub-[[:Category:Infobox picture needed]] on the same criteria. (Although {{tl|Picture}} will auto-categorize the page into the general [[:Category:Pictures needed]], so maybe both is overkill.) This way, the modifications to the add-an-image flow (pointing to [[Special:Upload]] before / instead-of the edit link) can be made in the {{tl|Picture}} box instead, and they'll benefit all pages it's used on. -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 10:55, 3 August 2018 (UTC)
 
 
 
{{outdent|::::}} Yesss, putting {{tl|picture}} at the head of the infobox is a ''very'' clever approach. And I don't hate having a special category for infobox pictures, I think that's a good category to have available when one's looking for some quick improvements to make. I personally would say that an infobox without a picture rises to a higher priority than a general stub without a picture, I don't think having it categorised both ways is overkill.
 
 
 
This is one of those times that having already updated the Guidebook would be helpful &mdash; {{tl|picture}} ''could'' point to an upload-and-edit guide. Maybe it's worth touching that specific part of the guidebook up immediately. {{m|notnow}} (TODO) --[[User:Djonni|Djonni]] ([[User talk:Djonni|talk]]) 05:35, 4 August 2018 (UTC)
 
 
 
:It's good ''enough'', I think, to have {{tl|picture}} point into [[Creators_Manual#Images]] without rewriting. Notwithstanding that it could be improved there. --[[User:Djonni|Djonni]] ([[User talk:Djonni|talk]]) 05:57, 4 August 2018 (UTC)
 
 
 
:: For the ''general'' case of "this article needs pictures", agreed, but actually for the Infobox case specifically it's kind of overkill, because they don't actually need to worry about '''any''' of that. To add an image to an infobox all you do is upload the file and enter the filename, you're spared having to worry about the intricacies of <code><nowiki>[[Image]]</nowiki></code> linking.
 
 
 
:: (And even when it comes to the syntax, if only the explanation at the top of [[Special:Upload]] actually demonstrated <code><nowiki>[[Image]]</nowiki></code> syntax instead of <code><nowiki>[[File]]</nowiki></code> and <code><nowiki>[[Media]]</nowiki></code>, I might say it's as good as the one in the Creators Manual.) But, regardless, because infobox image-adding is even simpler, maybe we should have a special version of / path through {{tl|Picture}}, where we just instruct them to upload a file and paste the filename into the template as an <code>|&nbsp;image=</code> parameter, rather than dumping all the rest of that noise on them? -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 10:08, 4 August 2018 (UTC)
 
 
 
::: Limited on time right now, but wanted to say: 1) Yes, actually, that makes sense (not to point editors to the Creator's Manual just to add an infobox image). Perhaps a short, sweet <code><nowiki> ===Adding an image to the template=== </nowiki></code> should be in each <code><nowiki>Template:XX/documentation</nowiki></code> page, with a link in the default image table cell (e.g., <code><nowiki><small>[[Special:Upload|Upload]] an image and [[Template:XX/documentation#Adding_an_image_to_the_template|put it here]].</small></nowiki></code>)? --[[User:Djonni|Djonni]] ([[User talk:Djonni|talk]]) 02:34, 9 August 2018 (UTC)
 
 
 
::: Oh yeah, and point 2) I will (I ''will'' I ''will'') start adding {{tl|equipment}} to existing pages, aaaany day now. --[[User:Djonni|Djonni]] ([[User talk:Djonni|talk]]) 02:35, 9 August 2018 (UTC)
 
 
 
:::: [[Mace of amnesia|Tadah!]] --[[User:Djonni|Djonni]] ([[User talk:Djonni|talk]]) 08:03, 13 August 2018 (UTC)
 
::::: And [https://wiki.godvillegame.com/index.php?title=Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Equipment&hidelinks=1 already up to 9 pages] now, woo! 🤩 I shall honor your diligence by being lazy and continuing to not do any of those myself. 😏 You're Welcome™! (But maybe I'll get to that {{tl|Picture}} stuff we discussed... after I sort out those last issues with the new Main Page.) -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 08:12, 14 August 2018 (UTC)
 
:::::: Hey... hold off, if you can, before doing any more of these. [https://wiki.godvillegame.com/Talk:Djonni#Template:Equipment_subcategorization I just had an idea]. -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 13:08, 14 August 2018 (UTC)
 
::::::: Never mind, idea implemented! -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 16:12, 14 August 2018 (UTC)
 
:::::::: Also, BTW, I didn't realize I'd broken the parameter check so that you couldn't include a blank <code>image</code> parameter without breaking the default image, but I've fixed that now. So, feel free to make an empty <code>| image =</code> part of your boilerplate, it'll work fine! -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 16:14, 14 August 2018 (UTC)
 
 
 
{{outdent|::::::::}} {{m|done}} The auto-{{tl|picture}} templating we'd discussed is now in place on {{tl|Equipment}}. For the moment it just uses the standard [[Template:Picture]], that can be adjusted later on if we develop any specific new flows. I've already taken the liberty of removing the manual (now-redundant) {{tl|picture}} transclusions from the Equipment articles where you'd already added it (there were only a couple). -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 04:11, 15 August 2018 (UTC)
 
 
 
: The automatic {{tl|picture}}ing looks better than I feared, looks seamless. If I notice any funny edge cases or anything as it gets rolled out I'll bring it to your attention but I can't imagine what. 👌 --[[User:Djonni|Djonni]] ([[User talk:Djonni|talk]]) 17:42, 17 August 2018 (UTC)
 
 
 
 
 
==Many GodWiki pages need to be deleted==
 
There are a lot of junk/clickbait pages that just redirect to the main page. Perhaps a moderator/administrator could look into removing them? --[[User:ElectroChip|ElectroChip]] ([[User talk:ElectroChip|talk]]) 16:22, 9 May 2017 (UTC)
 
 
 
:There are certainly a lot of dead pages on the Wiki, which sadly right now doesn't have an active administrator other than the actual Godville Admin team who spending all their time hard at work on improving the actual game and its content for us all.
 
 
 
:For now, we all can help a hypothetical future administrator do a deep clean of the wiki by adding the {{tl|delete}} template to any page that you think an admin should remove one day. It's probably wise to provide a reason why you feel a page deserves deleting too, by doing something like <code><nowiki>{{delete|This page violates CP-symmetry and may cause vacuum decay, ending the Universe.}}</nowiki></code>
 
 
 
:All pages that have the {{tl|delete}} template on them appear in [[:Category:Marked for deletion]]. This list will be one of the first stops, I expect, for any future admin to do a clean-out. (''Hello hypothetical future admin, please know, if you're reading this, that we understand the very large pile of work you've been left with and deeply appreciate your hypothetical future work!'')--[[User:Djonni|Djonni]] ([[User talk:Djonni|talk]]) 09:04, 9 June 2018 (UTC)
 
 
 
:: Just as a point of information, the pages that [[User:ElectroChip|ElectroChip]] is talking about that "just redirect to the main page" most likely ''have'' been deleted, which is '''why''' they redirect to the main page -- without adminship, other users can't delete pages, but they can replace spammy/inappropriate page content with a quick <code><nowiki>#redirect[[Main Page]]</nowiki></code> to obliterate everything except the page title. I know that [[User:BlueStapler|BlueStapler]], and probably others, have taken the initiative to wipe out page-level spam and vandalism in that way, when necessary.
 
 
 
:: For truly deletion-worthy articles that just shouldn't be here at all, that's probably a better approach than setting the delete template since, right now, there's simply no expectation that'll ever be responded to.
 
 
 
:: The delete template still has its purpose, as it's a good way to indicate things like Templates that are no longer useful, or userspace subpages that the user no longer needs (since we can't even delete pages from our own userspace, annoyingly). -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 14:43, 1 July 2018 (UTC)
 
 
 
:::I actually find it a little disorienting when an otherwise blank page simply redirects to the Main Page, particularly on mobile where redirects aren't breadcrumbed. Perhaps it's a preference-driven thing &mdash; I'd rather a clear {{tl|delete}} tag on a dead page than an unexplained redirect to an unrelated default page. I also imagine a Hypothetical Future Admin finding a straightforward (if large) list of [[:Category:Marked for deletion|pages marked for deletion]] a little simpler than having to also go through the list of  [https://wiki.godvillegame.com/index.php?title=Special:WhatLinksHere/Main_Page&hidelinks=1&hidetrans=1 pages that redirect to the Main Page], though perhaps I'm too optimistic about the advent of the HFA. I seem to be an HFA Adventist, come to think of it, and act as if I believe that I can immanentize the coming of the HFA by preparing the Godwiki for His or Her manifestation... Hmmm. --[[User:Djonni|Djonni]] ([[User talk:Djonni|talk]]) 03:29, 2 July 2018 (UTC)
 
 
 
:::: I won't dispute that it's disorienting, but how frequently does this really come up, in '''normal''' wiki use? Meaning, if you're not someone poking around behind the scenes?
 
:::: Those articles shouldn't be linked to from anywhere, so the only way they're likely to be found by normal users is in search results. For those users, landing on a {{tl|delete}} page dead-ends them while showing no useful information. They don't '''care''' that a page is flagged for deletion. OTOH, being redirected to the main page means they can continue browsing the wiki. For the average user with no interest in the administrivia of the wiki, that's likely the preferable outcome. -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 12:29, 3 July 2018 (UTC)
 
 
 
===Defunct Guild pages===
 
A ''very'' large proportion of [[Special:FewestRevisions|dead]], [[Special:ShortPages|short]], [[Special:LonelyPages|unlinked]], [[Special:UncategorizedPages|uncategorised]] pages are stubs that were created for guilds that no longer exist. I'm in two minds about how these pages should be treated, but I have a proposal.
 
 
 
* I think we should have a new '''Dead guilds''' category (as sub-category of [[:Category:Guilds]])
 
* I think we should have a new {{tl|deadguild}} template that:
 
** Uses the {{tl|delete}} template as a basis, with similar design;
 
** States that this guild is "not widely known on Godville";
 
** Gives a link back to the https://godvillegame.com/stats/guild/(guild_name) so it's easy to check if the guild remains dead at any time;
 
** Categorises the tagged page as a dead guild, obviously.
 
 
 
That way these pages aren't ''necessarily'' [[:Category:Marked for deletion|marked for deletion]] as such, but they are ready for a hypothetical future admin (HFA) to do a spring clean if the HFA decides to slough off that particular kind of dead weight. (''Hello HFA, thanks again for your hypothetical future work!)
 
 
 
I would likewise propose that a page only be a candidate for tagging with {{tl|deadguild}} if:
 
* The URL for the guild states that it is "not widely known on Godville";
 
* There have been no edits to the page for... lets say, 6 months? 12 months? This would allow baby guilds to grow enough to have a stat page.
 
 
 
The guild page could easily be checked by editing the candidate page, inserting the template, previewing the edit, and clicking the link in the template before saving your change.
 
 
 
Specifically, as an example:
 
 
 
{{Sign
 
|height=64
 
|bgcolor=C0C0C0
 
|bordercolor=505050
 
|outerbordercolor=505050
 
|img=RIP-gravestone grey.png
 
|title=This article is for a guild that doesn't appear to exist.
 
|text=The [http://godvillegame.com/stats/guild/Alcyone guild stats page] matching this article states that ''The “Alcyone” guild is not widely known in Godville.'' If you are a member of this guild, or can confirm that the guild now exists, please remove this template.
 
}}
 
<!--  |text=The [http://godvillegame.com/stats/guild/{{BASEPAGENAME}} guild stats page] matching this article states that ''The “{{BASEPAGENAME}}” guild is not widely known in Godville.'' If you are a member of this guild, or can confirm that the guild now exists, please remove this template.-->
 
<!-- Note: the use of {{BASEPAGENAME}} here allows the template to work as intended even if used on a talk page. -->
 
<!--  |cat=Dead guilds -->
 
 
 
Any thoughts on this from anyone? --[[User:Djonni|Djonni]] ([[User talk:Djonni|talk]]) 00:40, 10 June 2018 (UTC)
 
 
 
==HTML layout and the <code>width</code> attribute==
 
It's months old, but I'm manually reversing one of [[User:Holy Spirit of Hell|Holy Spirit of Hell]]'s [https://wiki.godvillegame.com/index.php?title=Main_Page&diff=prev&oldid=76563 good-faith edits] to the layout of the main page, because it blew out the width of the page beyond the right edge of the viewport. In doing so, I wanted to drop a quick note about dimensions in HTML layout and the <code>width</code> attribute. (This isn't meant to shame you or call you out, [[User:Holy Spirit of Hell|Holy Spirit of Hell]], and the whole reason I'm posting this info '''here''', instead of on your talk page or similar, is that I'm sure there are multiple people who could benefit from it.)
 
 
 
Also, let me say that the following is at the very least '''vastly''' oversimplified. (Yes, even considering how long it is.) You should really be getting this sort of knowledge from good sources like [https://developer.mozilla.org/ Mozilla Developer Network (MDN)] or even "meh" sources like [http://w3schools.com w3schools], not from me. Hell, I'm sure at ''least'' one thing I'm about to say is just plain wrong... I just don't know which one(s)!
 
 
 
Specifying dimensions for layout elements in HTML is generally fraught with peril. But there are different levels of peril:
 
* Specifying exact '''pixel''' dimensions (e.g. <code>width="640px"</code>) is ''evil'' and should be avoided at all costs, it's one of the main things that makes pages lay out improperly in mobile browsers, just for starters. (Image dimensions are ''somewhat'' of an exception to this, though even there it's problematic if images are placed at fixed sizes with no regard for how they affect the content layout on different size screens.) '''Point''' size dimensions (<code>width="10pt"</code>) fall into the same category, as points are a fixed-size unit that doesn't scale.
 
* Specifying dimensions in '''em''' units (<code>width="10em"</code>) is slightly better, as ems are related to the font size the content is displayed at, so they'll be autoscaled to match the device's base font size (as long as the font size isn't overridden using a pixel or point size!) Still, while these dimensions autoscale to fit the display size, they're frequently not predictable enough to use for layout. There is also the '''rem''' unit (<code>width="10rem"</code>) which is relative to the ''root'' font size, making it slightly more predictable since it means the same thing everywhere on the page, no matter what font size is set for that content.
 
* Specifying dimensions in '''percentages''', if one must specify dimensions at all, is best, and for the most part it's how Godwiki is laid out. But it's important to know what those percentages mean.
 
** A percentage width in HTML is interpreted ''relative to the width of the element's container''.
 
** For that reason, <code>width="100%"</code> is '''by far''' the most commonly-used dimension in HTML layout, and it simply means "expand to fill all of the horizontal space available to me".
 
** Percentages ''less'' than 100% are used when elements are placed side-by-side within the same container, to adjust how how the available space is allocated among them. Generally, if percentage widths less than 100% are used, they should be specified on multiple elements laid out horizontally, so that they all '''add up''' to no more than 100%, and ideally to exactly 100%.
 
** Percentages ''greater'' than 100% tell an element to grow larger than its container, which is almost never what you want to do and will cause all sorts of problems, from elements overlapping to elements sticking out past the edge of the screen. Browsers will try to correct for some of this (by autosizing child elements to smaller than the >100% container size, for example) but at the very least you'll end up with a jorizontal scroll bar for no good reason.)
 
 
 
So, that's why changing two <code>width="100%"</code> elements to <code>width="110%"</code> and <code>width="90%"</code> will '''never''' look as intended. The percentages still add up to the same (200%). The total '''width''' of the elements is ''nearly'' the same. (If their containers are different widths it won't be ''exactly'' the same, though. Observe: 110% of <code>600px</code> is <code>660px</code> but 90% of <code>400px</code> is <code>360px</code>, so the total width increased from 600+400 = <code>1000px</code> to 660+360 = <code>1020px</code>.) But instead of two balanced elements, we've now got one element that doesn't fill its container, and leaves wasted space alongside it, and another element that sticks out of its container and disturbs the layout of the surrounding content. The correct way to adjust the width of <code>width="100%"</code> elements is to find which of their ''containers'' define the respective widths (using something other than <code>width="100%"</code>, either smaller percentages or specific units) and adjust '''those''' dimensions, while leaving the elements in question set to <code>width="100%"</code> as, again, that just means "fill my available space".
 
 
 
Oh, and last but far from least:
 
* Best by far is when we can avoid specifying widths at all, and allow HTML to flow the elements automatically. The width of block elements will automatically expand to fit the content they contain, up to the size of ''their'' containers. That's usually what we want. <code>width="auto"</code> makes this explicit, and specifying it can be useful if explicit widths were set elsewhere that need to be uninherited. <code>width="auto"</code> is also better than <code>width="100%"</code> because it accounts for things like padding and margins, whereas setting 100% width can force elements into those spacers (or force those spacers beyond the screen borders) under certain circumstances.
 
-- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 14:04, 3 December 2017 (UTC)
 
 
 
I'm actually going to amend this, some, to say that when talking about the '''entire''' page width (or, the entire content-area width, not counting things like sidebars), percentage widths are ''also'' some of the worst things you can use. In those contexts, "real" dimensions like <code>em</code> widths are far better than percentages, because those widths scale intelligently with the screen size, whereas percentage widths '''don't'''.
 
 
 
Some of the biggest problems we've had with formatting the wiki to be mobile-friendly have been with content formatted with something like <code>width=60%</code> or whatever. The problem is that the same content is going to take up 60% of the width of '''any''' screen it's displayed on — which is probably fine, for a desktop browser, but clearly is going to be a problem in a phone browser.
 
 
 
In fact, it was only by setting the width of {{tl|Diary}} and {{tl|Diaryquest}} to pixel values that I was able to make them readable on mobile browsers. (And I'm experimenting now with changing those widths to <code>em</code> widths, to better scale to different pixel densities.) By the same token, updating the [[Main Page]] sections to use <code>em</code> widths instead of <code>width=55%</code> and <code>width=45%</code> was a big part of creating the new mobile-friendly layout. (The other part was formatting them with CSS flexbox, so that they'll automatically rearrange themselves vertically if there isn't enough room on the screen to fit them side-by-side.) -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 10:04, 17 August 2018 (UTC)
 
 
 
:: {{tl|Diary}} and {{tl|Diaryquest}} now both specify their minimum width or width (respectively) as <code>18em</code>, to better scale with different screen dimensions '''and''' pixel densities. That has almost certainly changed the size of your existing boxes, and may even have changed it ''differently'' on different screens. Sorry, but OTOH this can also serve as a reminder that the Web is not a desktop publishing platform, and is not intended to be laid out like a magazine. Web content will always be resized and reformatted to serve the needs and interests of the reader, not the author — and this is as it should be. -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 15:22, 20 August 2018 (UTC)
 
 
 
== New mobile-friendly [[Main Page]] ==
 
 
 
The [[Main Page]] of the wiki is using a new layout that should automatically size itself to your screen, even on mobile devices. Please kick the tires, but if we get a flat it's '''''your fault'''''! 😜
 
 
 
The page will look not-great-at-all in the "Desktop" mode on a mobile browser. That skin is just terrible and nothing will ever look very good in it. However, in the interest of saving people from its awfulness, when you are viewing the site with that skin (only), the bottom of the main page will now include a link to "Switch back to the [https://wiki.godvillegame.com/index.php?title=Talk:Main_Page&mobileaction=toggle_view_mobile mobile skin]". -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 05:51, 16 August 2018 (UTC)
 
:Right now, the ‘desktop skin’ for mobile is much easier to navigate around, due to the smaller font, the mobile version has a lot of scrolling around. For any further improvement, I’d suggest making the mobile fonts show up smaller if possible —[[User:Holy Spirit of Hell|Holy Spirit of Hell]] ([[User talk:Holy Spirit of Hell|talk]]) 03:52, 25 August 2018 (UTC)
 
 
 
::Hmmm 🤔 I'd be pretty hesitant to permanently reduce font sizes on a particular platform like that (and without an admin, I doubt it's feasible). But you might find that opening the page in your phone browser, rather than the app, gives you more control over font sizing. I know in Safari on iOS it's pretty straightforward, less so on Chrome or Firefox, but still possible.
 
:: Considering how many Godville users are using low-cost devices with small screens, or have a vision impairment or other accessibility need, making text size and touch target size smaller than default seems a little problematic to me. --[[User:Djonni|Djonni]] ([[User talk:Djonni|talk]]) 06:18, 25 August 2018 (UTC)
 
 
 
::: I agree there are certain areas where the fonts are a little oversized, though the most glaring ones are things like section headings which we ''especially'' have no control over. We could change the body text size, but I'm not sure how much benefit there would be, and as Djonni says it could cause issues for other people using the wiki.
 
 
 
:::: And when I say that, I mean we totally ''couldn't'' change the body text size, either — except by doing something completely insane, like editing every individual page to add some code. But even '''if''' we could (which we can't, realistically)... -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 19:15, 28 August 2018 (UTC)
 
 
 
::: But it's true, the WPtouch skin definitely packs more text onto the screen, though I personally feel it's at the expense of comfortable navigation. Lists, in particular, are squeezed way too tightly together, making it difficult to tap on any individual item without potentially hitting an adjacent one. The mobile skin adds extra space between each item to help stave off that problem, and though I don't feel it's done in the most attractive way I do appreciate the effort.
 
 
 
::: I don't know if you've explored the mobile skin ''lately'', H.S.H, but IMHO it's a '''lot''' better now that basically all pages reformat themselves to fit the display so there's no horizontal scrolling. Like I said, it definitely isn't as compact and space-efficient as WPtouch, but I feel it makes the right choices for the most part. Especially when you're browsing by touch, there is such a thing as ''too'' compact. The way the Godwiki mobile skin renders is pretty much equivalent to standard Wikipedia's mobile rendering, in terms of font size and etc., and I trust them to have looked at the issue and come up with the solution that works for the majority of people.
 
 
 
::: One big ''difference'' between Godwiki and Wikipedia mobile sites is that on Wikipedia, tapping the Desktop link at the bottom of the page switches you to the '''real''' desktop-browser interface: impossibly tiny text, huge page layouts, the works, exactly as it looks in Chrome or Firefox on my computer. Personally I'd prefer that for Godwiki, if the user really wants a desktop interface they should get it. Better than this halfway-measures WPtouch abomination. But, again, that's completely out of our control I'm afraid. -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 19:01, 28 August 2018 (UTC)
 
 
 
== New convenience template for referencing Godville Blog posts ==
 
 
 
Since the {{Cite blog}} is one of the few outside resources we ever cite as a reference on this wiki (see [[History]], especially), and in the interest of encouraging more of that (where appropriate), I've created a new convenience template {{tl|Cite blog}} for creating links to Godville Blog posts.
 
 
 
Just give it a post number, and it'll create a link to that post. If you leave out the post number, it'll just provide a general link to the blog (as seen in my opening paragraph):
 
{| class="wikitable"
 
|+
 
! Wikicode !! Renders as
 
|-
 
| {{Tlx|Cite blog|117}} || {{Cite blog|117}}
 
|-
 
| {{Tlx|Cite blog|116|To the Point}} || {{Cite blog|116|To the Point}}
 
|-
 
| {{Tlx|Cite blog}} || {{Cite blog}}
 
|}
 
More documentation, including an example of how the template can be used in creating citation references in articles, can be found on the [[Template:Cite blog|template page]]. I may add additional parameters, like the ability to provide a title for the linked post, if there's any interest. -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 13:50, 1 September 2018 (UTC)
 
: Worth mentioning that {{God|Djonni}} later added the ability to include post <var>title</var>s as well, for even nicer citation formatting. See the second example in the table above. -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 23:04, 14 November 2018 (UTC)
 
 
 
== Main Page styling tweaks ==
 
 
 
I just tweaked a bunch of style/layout code on the [[Main Page]], all minor changes individually but they add up to a perceptible difference, hopefully for the better. In case anyone notices there have been changes and is curious what they were, details of the changes made:
 
* Styling of section boxes cleaned up:
 
** The heading is now "attached" to the border on three sides, and shares its color; hopefully that looks a bit cleaner
 
** Some boxes had mismatched header/border colors, I've fixed all that up
 
** The inner spacing/margins was also inconsistent between boxes, now they use identical outer margins and (except for 'Random Image') identical internal padding
 
* Section colors updated:
 
** 'Random Image' now matches: purple header/borders, light purple background (the background and borders were light blue, before)
 
** 'Did You Know?' now has a color scheme of its own, in shades of orange (just because)
 
** The blues of 'Intro...' are bluer, the greens of 'Featured...' are greener
 
* The boxes no longer touch each other (it always looked weird with the different border colors)
 
* '<code>rem</code>' units are used much more extensively (rather than '<code>em</code>' or '<code>px</code>'), which should give more consistent scaling
 
 
 
I should really make a "Godwiki Announcements" template/page for this stuff, instead of stuffing it on the Talk page. -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 00:51, 8 September 2018 (UTC)
 
 
 
== Deprecation of [[Template:Pet]] ==
 
Following [[Talk:Boss-monsters#Boss "Class" vs. "Level"|some discussion]], we've decided to retire the {{tl|Pet}} template, and instead use {{tl|Monster}} for '''all''' Monster articles (including Boss-Monsters and Pets), so that improvements will be shared among the various types automatically.
 
 
 
I've placed the following notice at the top of the {{tl|Pet}} documentation:
 
{{Sign| width=100| title = This Template Is Deprecated — USE {{tlx|Monster|pet{{=}}yes}} INSTEAD | text = {{tl|Monster}} can now create Pet infoboxes (since all Pets are Monsters), it should be used instead of this template. The syntax is exactly the same, simply add {{para|pet|yes}} to the code. So, for example...<br> '''OLD:''' <code><nowiki>{{Pet|image=example.jpg |description=A beast |levels=12-32 |totem=A Guild}}</nowiki></code><br>'''NEW:''' <code><nowiki>{{Monster|image=example.jpg |description=A beast |pet=yes |levels=12-32 |totem=A Guild}}</nowiki></code><br>See [[Template:Monster]] for full documentation.<br>This change will allow Pet articles to benefit from any improvements made to {{tl|Monster}}. | outerbordercolor = f00 | bordercolor = f00 }}
 
 
 
I'll go through and convert the existing [[:Category:Pets]] articles that use {{tl|Pet}} over to {{tlx|Monster|pet{{=}}yes}} when I can (except for [[Alpha Centaur]] which is already converted), but please use {{tlx|Monster|pet{{=}}yes}} on new Pet articles (or updated ones), and feel free to convert any uses of {{tl|Pet}} that you happen to come across. Thanks! -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 00:52, 18 September 2018 (UTC)
 
: Oh, and just for the record, {{para|pet}} can actually be set to any common positive-state value, so {{para|pet|y}}, {{para|pet|true}}, {{para|pet|1}}, {{para|pet|on}}, etc. are all just as good. -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 00:55, 18 September 2018 (UTC)
 
 
 
<strike> {{m|partlydone}} — I'm now about 2/3 of the way through the Pet articles, [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Pet|15 more to go]].</strike> -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 00:46, 19 September 2018 (UTC)
 
 
 
{{m|done}} — As of now, there are no articles on the wiki containing {{tl|Pet}} transclusions. All Pet articles which feature an infobox are now using {{tlx|Monster|pet{{=}}yes}}. Please stick to that format when updating or adding new Pet articles. {{tl|Pet}} should no longer be used. -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 21:00, 20 September 2018 (UTC)
 
 
 
== New, reformatted Omnibus List==
 
{{m|done}} - The new [[Omnibus List]] design is live.
 
; Previous update
 
: See [[Talk:Omnibus List#New, flexible Omnibus List with responsive formatting (large- and small-screen friendly!)|today's announcement at Talk:Omnibus List]] regarding a new version of the Omnibus List that's now in testing. It uses a modernized, responsive (size-adaptive) layout, to better fit screen sizes both large and small.
 
:
 
:'''A testing/demo version of the new Omnibus List can be found at: [[User:FeRDNYC/Sandbox]]'''
 
:
 
:Please leave any/all feedback at [[Talk:Omnibus List]]. -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 01:00, 22 October 2018 (UTC)
 
-- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 13:42, 29 October 2018 (UTC)
 
 
 
== Templates for he-or-she in articles ==
 
 
 
I had a bad idea, which I didn't think through, and took too far. So, here you go: a set of templates to allow The [[Great Random]] to choose the gender of the pronouns in your GodWiki writing!
 
 
 
In brief:
 
 
 
* {{Tlx|He or She}}: You'll get either <code>He</code> or <code>She</code>, chosen at <small>kinda-</small>random.
 
* {{Tlx|he or she}}: You'll get either <code>he</code> or <code>she</code>, chosen at <small>kinda-</small>random.
 
 
 
If you're with me so far, I'll assume you can extrapolate to understand the following templates too:
 
 
 
* {{Tlx|Him or Her}} and {{Tlx|him or her}}
 
* {{Tlx|His or Hers}} and {{Tlx|his or hers}}
 
* {{Tlx|Hero or Heroine}} and {{Tlx|hero or heroine}}
 
* {{Tlx|Heroes or Heroines}} and {{Tlx|heroes or heroines}}
 
 
 
Every one of these can take the optional parameter {{para|or|<var>anything at all</var>}} (as in, for example, {{Tlx|he or she|or{{=}}1}}). If  {{para|or|<var>anything</var>}} is present, you'll instead get either <code>he or she</code> or <code>she or he</code> instead.
 
 
 
These are safe to use inline with combining forms. As in: <code>Now {{Tl|he or she}}'s the winner!</code> will produce the expected <code>Now he's the winner!</code> or <code>Now she's the winner!</code>.
 
 
 
There's more information (and an important note about an error I can't fix, which could cause you to panic unnecessarily) in the [[Template:He-or-she/Documentation|documentation for <nowiki>{{he or she}}</nowiki>]] (and if you can fix that error, brilliant!).
 
 
 
'''''Great, [[Djonni]], but what's the point?'''''
 
 
 
Rather than every single wiki page using ''he'' (or even ''he or she'') as a default choice, this can allow you to have the choice made for you as to what gender will be used in an article. These templates will ''consistently'' choose the same pronoun for a given page; you can be sure that it will consistently choose the same {{he or she}}, {{him or her}}, {{his or hers}}, {{hero or heroine}}, etc, and won't switch unexpectedly between them. Then, if you copy-paste the same wiki-code into another page (or transclude it), it will be consistent with ''that'' page. Or, if you prefer, just use it to set an article gender once, and follow that gender choice through the rest of the text, whatever you like. It's a 50/50 diceroll for the gender of a page, to use however you want.
 
 
 
'''''If you want more'''''
 
 
 
I'm done with this collection of templates for now (it was a ''much'' larger set that I first expected already), but if people indicate they would like to use templates like this in a more use cases, these further templates could be made pretty easily:
 
 
 
* {{Tlf|God or Goddess}} and corresponding lowercases, plurals, and possessives (a full paradigm of 6 templates altogether)
 
* The inverted order templates, for when you want to (e.g.) refer to a secondary character, ''he'', that your primary protagonist, ''she'', interacts with. These would be structured as {{Tlf|She or He}}, etc. That set expands out to another 10 templates, plus 6 more for {{Tlf|Goddess or God}}
 
 
 
I'll do the work if there's an indication that anyone likes this idea and would want to use them! :)
 
 
 
'''''Dude, they're ''still'' binary genders.'''''
 
 
 
Yeah, I know. ''All'' of Godville is binary gendered, and it's out-of-scope for me to fix that with a couple of cute little templates. Sorry. If you can propose a ''sensible'' way that I can promote inclusion of non-binary gender anywhere then I'm honestly all ears, I don't have any ideas, good ''or'' bad. But this at least offers something to erode the monotony of male-gendered content on the GodWiki. And hey, since I haven't built the {{Tlf|she or he}} counterpart templates, I guess by default I'm also not promoting heteronormativity, so... Yeah, there's that.
 
 
 
Okay, I'm gonna go do something else now. If you have questions, comments, criticism, or requests, please let me know, here, [[Talk:Djonni|here]], or by direct message on Godville. -- [[User:Djonni|Djonni]] ([[User talk:Djonni|talk]]) 13:46, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
 
 
 
: I've used the {{Tlx|he or she}} family of templates in today's update to the [[Template:Featured|Featured Article]] on the main page. It should read fairly seamlessly, and give a concrete example of how it might be used. You'll also note that when appearing on the [[Main Page]] and in the original [[Template:Featured]] page the templates render as <code>he</code> in both places. So speaketh the [[Great Random]]!
 
 
 
: If there are any issues with these templates in the Featured Article at all, I encourage you to [https://wiki.godvillegame.com/index.php?title=Template:Featured&action=edit&undoafter=88986&undo=88987 undo the edit] where I put them in, and to [https://wiki.godvillegame.com/index.php?title=Talk:Main_Page&action=edit&section=9 explain the problem] here for us. -- [[User:Djonni|Djonni]] ([[User talk:Djonni|talk]]) 10:56, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
 
 
 
:: {{m|idea}} It wouldn't be difficult to implement a parameter {{para|daily|<var>anything</var>}} that will switch the gender every day. I kind of like that idea, it's perfect for use cases like the Main Page etc. -- [[User:Djonni|Djonni]] ([[User talk:Djonni|talk]]) 11:18, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
 
 
 
::: {{m|done}} The existing set of templates now support a parameter, {{para|daily|<var>anything</var>}}, which switches the gender for the text each day. If you want to see it in action, the current (at the time of this note) [[Template:Featured|Featured Article]] snippet on the [[Main Page]] is now using it, and so each day when the cache of the Main Page is refreshed, the text of the Featured Article will change gender. (I am here assuming that the cache is refreshed daily. That may not be the case; a couple of days observation will reveal the real behaviour.)
 
 
 
::: {{m|thankyou}} Also, after some effort by the talented {{god|FeRDNYC}}, the error described in the docs is no longer an issue. I'll update the docs to explain how the template behaves before a new page is saved.
 
 
 
::: Finally, both of these changes make the creation of the inverted template set (<code>{{Tlf|she-or-he}}</code> et cetera) a must. So I'll get to work on that too. (Probably before I update the docs, so I only gotta do that once.) I think I'll make them as essentially wrappers for the current set, though, using a new {{para|reverse|<var>anything</var>}} option, so that improvements are less arduous. (Perhaps I should simply implement a master function (<code>{{Tlf|m-or-f}}</code>?) which takes {{para|male|<var>him</var>}} and {{para|female|<var>her</var>}} text inputs? Then behaviour changes would be completely consistent to the entire set. Hmmm.) -- [[User:Djonni|Djonni]] ([[User talk:Djonni|talk]]) 13:15, 3 November 2018 (UTC)
 
 
 
:::: {{m|done}} Instead of making an entire set of {{tlf|she or he}}, each of the gender-selection templates now supports the {{para|invert|<var>anything</var>}} parameter to switch the focus of the gender when required to write sensible sentences. More detail and examples are given in the documentation for the {{tl|m-or-f}} template which is now the basis of the whole set (and can be used to construct your own God-or-Goddess or any function you like. More info in the docs.)
 
 
 
:::: Oh, and while writing the docs I realised I'd missed the possessive adjectives, so I've added {{tl|his or her}} and {{tl|His or Her}} to the set. So now, {{he or she|daily=1}} can hold {{his or her|daily=1|invert=1}} hand in the moonlight, and make sense.
 
 
 
:::: I'm going to start subtly including these templates in some key places around the GodWiki, especially for content in highly-visible places like the Main Page. But they're there for everyone's use, so if you want to, enjoy!
 
 
 
:::: Please leave any relevant comments, questions, or requests here. For now, I consider this little template project concluded. :) Cheers -- [[User:Djonni|Djonni]] ([[User talk:Djonni|talk]]) 17:05, 3 November 2018 (UTC)
 
 
 
{{outdent|:::::}} {{tqi|If you can propose a ''sensible'' way that I can promote inclusion of non-binary gender anywhere then I'm honestly all ears|q=yes}} Personally I've become pretty big on singular "they" (and equivalent forms), for the general case of genderless pronoun usage. And it doesn't even require any templates! 😉
 
 
 
You do have to get used to reading things like, "The hero brushed themself off and continued on their way," which parses pretty weird at first. Also, '''holy ''wow''''' do some people get irrationally pissed off at that usage, accusing you of everything from PC capitulation to eroding the fabric of society. But I say screw those people, since they insist on being <nowiki>{{dicks-and-or-vaginas}}</nowiki>. -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 13:07, 4 November 2018 (UTC)
 
 
 
: (Note that my example also requires the reader to consider "hero" a genderless noun, which is a topic about which there has been plenty of debate, and strong arguments made on both sides.) -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 13:21, 4 November 2018 (UTC)
 
 
 
:: Oh I absolutely agree on "they", but as you also pointed out, it's not, erm... ''universally'' agreed upon. ;) The genderlessness of "hero" is also interesting, but since all of Godville differentiates between {{heroes or heroines|daily=1}} and {{heroes or heroines|daily=1|invert=1}}, I feel like defaulting to 'hero' in the Goville context is defaulting to male-focussed language.
 
 
 
:: But! If any editor wishes to, ''they'' are welcome to use any language they like when describing or failing to describe the gender of any characters. Of course. :) -- [[User:Djonni|Djonni]] ([[User talk:Djonni|talk]]) 14:09, 4 November 2018 (UTC)
 
 
 
::: [[Image:cross.png]] "Not that there's anything wrong with that!"
 
::: [[Image:tick.png]] "No, of course not!" -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 19:57, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
 
{{outdent|::::}} Whoops! Thanks for fixing that up {{u|WardPhoenix}}, not sure what happened with that heading while I was editing the transclusions. -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 03:15, 19 February 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
== Guild infoboxes now automatically link to guild pages ==
 
 
 
[[User:Djonni|Djonni]] had the excellent idea to have {{tl|Guild}} generate links to guild pages ''automatically'', instead of requiring a {{para|stats}} argument to provide the URL. So, that's now in place, and a lot of Guild articles should contain '''Guild Page:''' links that didn't have them before.
 
 
 
If for some reason you would prefer '''not''' to have that link shown on a guild article, passing a {{para|stats|no}} argument to the {{tl|Guild}} template will disable the automatic link generation.
 
 
 
And if the automatic link is generated ''wrong'' for some reason, {{para|stats|<var>url</var>}} still works to manually supply a URL. (This also means that older guild articles that include a {{para|stats|<var>url</var>}} argument will continue to function same as always. But {{para|stats|<var>url</var>}} is no longer '''necessary''' to have a '''Guild Page:''' link show up.)
 
 
 
For most Guild articles, {{para|stats}} should '''not''' be included in the template arguments anymore. It's easier to just let the template generate the link automatically. (It's up to the editors of existing guild articles, whether you remove {{para|stats}} if it's already set.)
 
 
 
The other link parameter, {{para|forum|<var>url</var>}}, is still required if you want to display a forum link. There's no way the template can automatically determine the correct URL for guild forums. -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 12:53, 4 November 2018 (UTC)
 
 
 
== A new link template for Guild pages ==
 
 
 
A new linking template, {{tlx|Guild link}}, has been added to the wiki. Use it to conveniently link to the official Godville page for the named [[Guilds|Guild]].
 
 
 
The same way: {{tlx|God|<var>God name</var>|}} => {{God|<var>God name</var>}}
 
 
 
You can now use: {{tlx|Guild link|<var>Guild name</var>|}} => {{Guild link|<var>Guild name</var>}}
 
 
 
(Hopefully the emoji shield in front of the Guild's name shows up everywhere. If not, in particular if you see an empty rectangle or any sort of question-mark symbol, please reply and let me know — include the details of what browser, device, operating system, etc. you're using.)
 
 
 
For example: {{tlx|Guild link|Bobius|}} => {{Guild link|Bobius}}
 
 
 
There's also a plaintext mode, just add {{para|plain|yes}}. {{tlx|Guild link|Eternal|plain{{=}}yes}} => {{Guild link|Eternal|plain=yes}}.
 
 
 
(That's used in the {{tlx|Guild}} infobox template, to generate the '''Guild Page:''' links.)
 
 
 
Full details, including available parameters and more examples, are in the documentation at {{tlx|Guild link}}. -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 15:53, 11 November 2018 (UTC)
 
 
 
== And a new link template for Pantheon positions... ==
 
 
 
... just to complete the set!
 
 
 
{{Tl|Pantheon link}} can now be used to create a nicely formatted (or plain) link to a Pantheon on the Godville game page, and can optionally link directly to a specific position in that pantheon. It is expected to be used primarily on [[:Category:Gods|God]] or [[:Category:Guilds|Guild]] pages, though be aware that if your pantheon position is volatile you may prefer not to link directly to it.
 
 
 
So now, just as {{tlx|God|<var>God name</var>}} => {{God|<var>God name</var>}}<br />
 
and {{tlx|Guild link|<var>Guild name</var>}} => {{Guild link|<var>Guild name</var>}},
 
 
 
now {{tlx|Pantheon link|<var>pantheon</var>}} => {{Pantheon link|pantheon}}
 
 
 
And, more usefully, to link to a specific pantheon position:<br />
 
{{tlx|Pantheon link|<var>pantheon</var>|15}} => {{Pantheon link|pantheon|15}}.
 
 
 
As with the shield in {{Tl|Guild link}}, hopefully the trophy emoji appears correctly on any device. Should it not, reply here and let us know, with what browser, device, operating system, etc. you're using.
 
 
 
Some quick examples:
 
 
 
:{{Tlx|Pantheon link|taming|237}} => {{Pantheon link|taming|237}}
 
:{{Tlx|Pantheon link|savings|20|text{{=}}short}} => {{Pantheon link|savings|20|text=short}}
 
:{{Tlx|Pantheon link|wood|1102|plain{{=}}yes}} => {{Pantheon link|wood|1102|plain=yes}}
 
:{{Tlx|Pantheon link|storytelling|51|text{{=}}none|plain{{=}}yes}} => {{Pantheon link|storytelling|51|text=none|plain=yes}}
 
:<code><nowiki>[[Pantheon of Gratitude]]: '''</nowiki>{{tlp|Pantheon link|gratitude|123|text{{=}}none|plain{{=}}yes}}<nowiki>'''</nowiki></code> => [[Pantheon of Gratitude]]: '''{{Pantheon link|gratitude|123|text=none|plain=yes}}'''
 
 
 
More details and examples are in the documentation at the {{tl|Pantheon link}} page. Take a quick look there to see how to use it with any pantheon you'd like (though it best suits pantheons where your position is quite stable, as it can't update itself magically with your current position). If you have any questions not covered in the documentation, please feel free to ask, either here or on [[Template talk:Pantheon link]]. -- [[User:Djonni|Djonni]] ([[User talk:Djonni|talk]]) 13:16, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
 
 
 
== Decorations were hung on the artifacts with care ==
 
 
 
'''''Note:''' this template has since been renamed more generally as {{tlx|Decorate item}}''
 
 
 
Inspired by the [[Halloween 2018]] article's extensive use of example pumpkin-decorated artifact names, and by the fact that just ''writing'' e.g. "🎃[[golden pumpkin]]🎃" doesn't quite look right (the pumpkins are too close to the text), I've created a new set of templates specifically to produce these "decorated" strings, but with nicer formatting and line-wrapping protection.
 
 
 
The general-purpose template is {{tlx|decorate artifact}}, but more convenient wrappers have been created for known Godville decorations:
 
 
 
* {{tlx|pumpkins}}: for decorating Halloween artifacts, e.g.
 
:: {{tlx|pumpkins|<nowiki>[[golden pumpkin]]</nowiki>|}} → {{pumpkins|[[golden pumpkin]]}}
 
* {{tlx|party}}: for decorating celebration-related artifacts (like the anniversary specials), e.g.
 
:: {{tlx|party|<nowiki>[[3000-days gold coin]]</nowiki>|}} → {{party|[[3000-days gold coin]]}}
 
 
 
Templates for additional standard decorations will be added as they appear, or [[Template talk:Decorate artifact|upon request]]. -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 15:39, 7 November 2018 (UTC)
 
 
 
:* {{tlx|turkey}} was aded for Thanksgiving, and produces the first one-sided decoration:
 
::: {{tlx|turkey|<nowiki>[[roasted turkey]]</nowiki>}} → {{turkey|[[roasted turkey]]}} -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 04:13, 4 December 2018 (UTC)
 
 
 
== Default picture and auto-templating for Artifact and Monster infoboxes ==
 
 
 
Just like {{tlx|Equipment}} since its inception, {{tlx|Artifact}} and {{tlx|Monster}} now have default "generic" images that they will use whenever an image is not supplied via {{para|image|<var>filename</var>}}. They will also (again just like {{tlx|Equipment}}) auto-template those articles as {{tlx|Picture}}-needed, adding them to the [[:Category:Pictures needed|Pictures needed]] hidden category.
 
 
 
To avoid double-templating, I removed the manual {{tlx|Picture}} templating from any {{tlx|Artifact}}-using articles which already had it. (There were only two, [[Orange bag]] and [[Heart warmer]].)
 
 
 
I tried to also get all of the {{tlx|Monster}} articles which contained manual {{tlx|Picture}} templates. There were far more of those, and I can't promise I didn't miss any. If you see any articles with '''two''' "Pictures needed" hatnotes (that's a message box at the top of the page), please edit the article source to remove the "{{tlx|Picture}}" template, as the infobox is now automatically supplying it. -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 02:45, 23 November 2018 (UTC)
 
 
 
== A humble proposal ==
 
 
 
This proposal and discussion has been archived to [[Talk:JanuWiki 2019/Archive]].
 
 
 
== Navbar line on navboxes ==
 
 
 
Now that we have a {{tlx|Navbar}} template (which I imported for use with the new {{tlx|Infobox}} code, though that isn't ready yet), we can have our Navbox templates show links to make them easier to modify. I've installed a Navbar on just {{tlx|Navboxauras}} for now, as an experiment. It's the three letters (for View • Talk • Edit) in the upper left corner that let you access the navbox template more easily:
 
 
 
{{Navboxauras}}
 
 
 
Navbars on ''infoboxes'' tend to have fallen out of favor on MediaWiki sites (and I may still end up disabling them on our new infoboxes, before they're released), because they lead to people who want to update infobox data trying to edit the template ''code'', when they '''should''' be editing the template ''transclusion'' in the article they're reading.
 
 
 
But with Navboxes, there's nothing to edit in the article, and you ''do'' need to edit the template code to modify them. So, it's a little different. There is still the danger, though, that the links will lead to inexperienced people messing up the Navbox templates more frequently. So I guess that's one reason for experimenting on just one template, first, to see if {{tlx|Navboxauras}} becomes the target of increased problem editing.
 
 
 
Let me know if anyone has any thoughts or objections. -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 05:25, 25 November 2018 (UTC)
 
 
 
:How about we have a version for Infoboxes that simply omits the 'edit' option? I think there's definitely merit in a clear link directly to the documentation and talk pages for an infobox. -- [[User:Djonni|Djonni]] ([[User talk:Djonni|talk]]) 16:16, 25 November 2018 (UTC)
 
 
 
:: Hmm, that's definitely an option technically, so yeah that could be one way to go. -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 05:27, 26 November 2018 (UTC)
 
 
 
== <strike>Preview</strike> Rollout of new Infoboxes ==
 
 
 
For a while now, I've been working on adapting the master {{tlx|Infobox}} code from the English Wikipedia for use here at the GodWiki, with the aim being to reimplement our Infoboxes. Using {{tlx|Infobox}} as the base template gives us access to more advanced features and formatting, and gives the infoboxes a more modern and cohesive look.
 
 
 
For this first round I'm focusing only on the three main infoboxes — certainly {{tlx|Town}} would also be updated, and most likely {{tlx|Guild}}, the user infoboxes, etc. as well, but that would all come later.
 
 
 
There's some initial discussion between [[User:Djonni|Djonni]] and myself at [[Talk:Djonni#Preview Release!]] for anyone interested, but the real point is that I feel like the effort has progressed far enough to seek commentary and input from a wider audience.
 
 
 
Anyone interested is welcome to take a look at [[User:FeRDNYC/Sandbox]], which contains a series of Artifact, Equipment, and Monster articles showcasing different possible forms of the new infobox templates for those articles. Where there are differences between them, or different versions of the same thing, it means that I'm trying out different possible formattings. As it says in the intro to that page, any and all input is welcome and encouraged — there's a link to the associated Talk page if anyone has any thoughts, positive or negative, on any or all of the infoboxes shown there.
 
 
 
'''Most''' helpful to me, at this stage, would be firm preferences of the form, "I like (this formatting) much better than (that formatting), you should definitely go with the first one." But, as I said, ''any'' input is welcome. -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 03:50, 29 November 2018 (UTC)
 
 
 
: {{m|started}}
 
 
 
: The new {{tlx|Town}} is now live. I spot-checked a bunch of articles and saw no obvious problems, but if you '''do''', please feel free to use the "T" link in the bottom-right corner of the infobox to access [[Template talk:Town]]. You can report problems or anything else there.
 
 
 
: If all goes well, I'll hopefully take at least {{tlx|Artifact}} and {{tlx|Equipment}} live later today, with {{tlx|Monster}} to follow shortly after. Thanks especially to {{god|Djonni}} and {{god|SourceRunner}}, who provided invaluable feedback and advice during testing. -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 17:59, 16 December 2018 (UTC)
 
 
 
:: {{m|doing}}
 
 
 
:: {{tlx|Artifact}} and {{tlx|Equipment}} are also now updated. -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 02:43, 17 December 2018 (UTC)
 
 
 
::: {{m|done}}
 
 
 
::: With the deployment of {{tlx|Monster}}, the four main article infoboxes are now updated and live. Please use the 'T' link at the bottom of any of them, to report problems on the associated Talk page. Other wiki infoboxes (guild/user-related) will be updated time permitting. -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]])
 
 
 
:::: The new infoboxes look SO GOOD in the wild! You put a ''lot'' of work and thought into them and it really shows. Thank you '''''so''''' much for your effort on these.
 
 
 
:::: Amazing what a nice fresh coat of paint will do around the place! -- [[User:Djonni|Djonni]] ([[User talk:Djonni|talk]]) 06:26, 19 December 2018 (UTC)
 
 
 
=2019=
 
 
 
== Sign template updates requiring page edits ==
 
 
 
{{Sign|title=This template needs to be fixed|text=These fixes will require the editing of Guild articles by a non-Guild-member (specifically, me — [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]]), which is normally not permitted by the Godwiki rules. I request that everyone understand the reasons behind this one-time, limited violation of those rules.}}
 
===The plan===
 
The {{tlx|Sign}} template, which is used to create notices like the one above, has several issues with how its parameters are specified. You can find a long, detailed explanation of those issues at [[Template talk:Sign|the Talk page for the template]], if you're interested. But the important point here is, those issues are going to be fixed. The fixes, however, will affect ''existing'' uses of {{tlx|Sign}} in Godwiki articles.
 
===What this means for you (the editor of an article containing {{tlx|Sign}})===
 
# If your article contains a sign transclusion with parameters like {{tlx|Sign|bordercolor{{=}}red}} or {{tlx|Sign|bgcolor{{=}}#91A3B0}}, those parameters will '''start''' working, where up until now they have been ignored. This will change the appearance of the sign, perhaps in unwanted ways. If so, simply remove the {{para|bgcolor}}, {{para|bordercolor}}, or {{para|outerbordercolor}} arguments so that the sign will use the default values, like it was previously.
 
# If your article contains a transclusion with parameters like {{para|bordercolor|ee8822}}, those parameters will ''break'' due to the changes. If this happens, '''I will fix them for you''', by changing them to e.g. {{para|bordercolor|#ee8822}}. You will not have to do anything. That is the reason for this announcement, and for the request that Guild members understand why a non-member will be editing their Guild page. My changes on any Guild articles will be limited to editing {{tlx|Sign}} parameters '''''only'''''.
 
 
 
If there are any affected {{tlx|Sign}} transclusions on user pages (it doesn't ''look'' like it, so far), I won't be able to fix them. I'll try to leave explanatory notes on the associated Talk pages, if those cases arise.
 
 
 
I don't plan to start these changes immediately (I want to give people time to digest this announcement, for one thing), but they will be happening soon and most likely will be completed by the end of the week. If anyone has any objections or issues, you have the floor... -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 21:56, 18 November 2018 (UTC)
 
 
 
: <strike>{{m|partlydone}}</strike>
 
: The color-parameter changes are complete. {{tlx|Sign|bgcolor{{=}}|bordercolor{{=}}|outerbordercolor{{=}}}} now accepts '''any''' valid CSS color string, e.g. {{para|bgcolor|red}} or {{para|bordercolor|rgb(100,150,0)}}. If specifying color by hex color value (i.e. <code>#RGB</code> or <code>#RRGGBB</code>), you ''must'' include  the leading <code>#</code> sign.
 
:; Guild pages edited
 
:* [[The Ancestry Knight]]
 
:* [[Lucky God Casino]] (three places)
 
:* [[I AM]] (two places)
 
:* [[Open Bar]]
 
:* [[404]]
 
: The only change that remains to be done is the fix to {{para|imgwidth}}, and the only page that will be affected ''there'' is [[Open Bar]] (again). I'll get to that another time. -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 00:24, 23 November 2018 (UTC)
 
:: {{m|done}}
 
:: Completely done, {{para|imgwidth}} syntax is updated in {{tlx|Sign}} and all three pages which make use of that parameter ([[Open Bar]], [[Template:Godwiki event construction]], and [[Template:Godwiki event review]]) have been modified accordingly. -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 11:52, 12 January 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
== Fixes for mobile content layout ==
 
 
 
So, I have an ''idea'' for how to blanket address the general mobile-browser formatting issue of content/headings being hidden by, cut off by, or improperly squeezed in alongside infoboxes and other right-floated elements (like the Archive box on Talk pages), without having to modify individual pages. The ''correct'' way to solve this problem would be with modifications to the site CSS, but lacking the ability to make such modifications I'm proposing the following band-aid fix.
 
 
 
For those not familiar with the issue, see:
 
* The second, fourth, and sixth images in [https://imgur.com/a/bWh75T4 this set of screenshots] from {{god|S624}}
 
* [https://imgur.com/a/zDv7djX These screenshots] also from {{god|S624}}
 
* [https://imgur.com/a/8dTiBXT This screenshot] or [https://imgur.com/a/6JNnEBS this screenshot] from {{god|Terezka}}
 
 
 
I've also written up [[User:FeRDNYC/Administrative requests#Content obscured by infoboxes on mobile|an incomplete technical dissection of the issue]] for those interested. The later update also explains both my initial idea for addressing the issue, and this (rethought) second plan that I'm now proposing. The first plan involved editing each page where content was wrapping incorrectly, whereas the new plan involves only editing the handful of templates which create infoboxes or other floated content.
 
 
 
My proposal is to add an invisible spacer to the end of each template which creates floated content ({{tlx|Monster}}, {{tlx|Equipment}}, {{tlx|Artifact}}, {{tlx|Town}}, {{tlx|Guild}}, {{tlx|Archives}}, etc.), immediately following the floated block. Because this spacer will have a fixed minimum width, if it fits alongside the floated block then it will simply cause an empty paragraph's worth of vertical whitespace at the top-left of the float. However, if there ''isn't'' room for the spacer alongside the float, then it will push any content which follows it (whether headings, body text, etc.) down '''below''' the floated block, preventing any of the uncomfortable layouts seen in the screenshots above.
 
 
 
To visually demonstrate what I'm suggesting, I've created '''[https://imgur.com/a/A47nhQg a screenshot gallery across a range of screen formats and orientations, and various wiki skins]'''. The screenshots present examples of how a test page would render first without, and then with, the invisible spacer. (The location of the normally-invisible spacer is highlighted with a "<code>div</code>" callout in all screenshots starting from the fifth.)
 
 
 
Making this change should fix all affected pages, and hopefully on all affected devices, without any of the individual pages needing to be modified in any way.
 
 
 
Thoughts? -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 14:41, 17 January 2019 (UTC)
 
:: Seems quite the revolution. It's gonna be a lot to add it to every concerned page, but in the end it will be way better it seems. Great thanks to you! [[User:WardPhoenix|WardPhoenix]] ([[User talk:WardPhoenix|talk]]) 15:02, 17 January 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
::: Modifying the templates definitely sounds easier/less involved than editing each page. I like the look of the solution, too. Is there a reason behind choosing the fixed width to specifically be 180 px? (That's what I think I'm reading, at least.) It works well, but I'm curious. -- [[User:SourceRunner|SourceRunner]] ([[User talk:SourceRunner|talk]]) 15:11, 17 January 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
:::: @WardPhoenix: The advantage to the proposed fix is that it specifically ''doesn't'' require modifying every page — only a few templates. The alternative would be to correct every page which is rendering incorrectly, which would indeed be a huge chore. As proposed, as few as two templates need to be edited. (If I decide the right way to go is to stick the fix into {{tlx|Infobox}} itself — rather than the derived templates like {{tlx|Monster}} and {{tlx|Town}} etc. — then that covers 95% of the problem instances in one shot.)
 
 
 
:::: @SourceRunner: The width is specified as <code>15em</code>, so the exact size will vary based on device resolution, but the actual value is basically arbitrary. Its effect is to impose a required (minimum) width for the area to the left of a floated template, before it's allowed to have content placed alongside. The width used is certainly open to adjustment — my goal is to find a value that's wide enough to prevent situations like [https://i.imgur.com/NIdHi8t.png this] or [https://i.imgur.com/7g9Alrb.png this], without leaving excessively-large blank areas next to infoboxes and the like. (Keeping in mind that any ''headings'' that are allowed to render in that space will be cut off unless the space is wide enough to wrap all of the words into it.)
 
 
 
:::: Basically, I'm trying to avoid creating either of these situations:
 
<div style="border:1px solid gray;padding:0.2em;width:20em;float:left;margin-right:1em;margin-left:8em;">
 
<div style="float:right;background-color:#88f;width:15em;height:8em;"> </div>
 
<div style="display:inline-block;min-width:4em;height:1px;"> </div>
 
<div style="font-size: 1.5em; font-family: Georgia,Times,serif; margin-top: 1em; margin-bottom: 0.25em; line-height: 1.3; padding: 0; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAAAAA; overflow: hidden;">Too narrow, heading truncated</div>
 
</div>
 
<div style="border:1px solid gray;padding:0.2em;width:20em;float:left;margin-right:1em;">
 
<div style="float:right;background-color:#88f;width:5em;height:8em;"> </div>
 
<div style="display:inline-block;min-width:16em;height:1px;"> </div>
 
Too wide, content pushed out when it could comfortably fit alongside.
 
</div>
 
{{clear}}
 
:::: ...Keeping in mind that the width of the left-hand space in those boxes will vary by quite a lot, based on factors like screen size, orientation, etc. Choosing the right <code>min-width</code> value to achieve the proper balance is completely a matter of intuition / trial-and-error. -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 19:04, 17 January 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
::::: (By using a width in <code>em</code> units, the size of the spacer is defined based on the font size in use. Specifically, it's the width of 15 letter 'm' characters. So, currently, the minimum available space to render text to the left of floated content would be this large: <span style="white-space:no-wrap;background-color:black;color:#3f3;">mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm</span>.) -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 19:12, 17 January 2019 (UTC)
 
: This seems to have introduced a new problem, at least on my iPhone 5S using the vector skin. The info box now appears not at the top, but after the first paragraph, so sometime half way down the page, and also, the box is cut off on the right side of the screen. Here’s a screenshot of the problem : https://imgur.com/a/2TTpUYv —[[User:Holy Spirit of Hell|Holy Spirit of Hell]] ([[User talk:Holy Spirit of Hell|talk]]) 02:16, 18 January 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
:: @HSoH: This hasn't been done yet, so nothing's changed. That's just how the mobile skin lays the page out. The first content paragraph (the same one that would come before "Contents") gets placed before the infobox, in the mobile Vector rendering. (Doesn't happen with WPTouch, the mobile "Desktop" view.) That's another thing that's beyond our control.
 
 
 
:: If it seems like things have changed recently with a certain article's layout, most likely it previously had a JanuWiki header. When the header is in place, ''it'' becomes the "first paragraph", so the infobox renders immediately after it. Remove the header, and the first content paragraph moves up above the infobox. Been that way all along, and nothing we can do about it, alas. -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 02:30, 18 January 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
:: The infoboxes sticking off the left edge of the screen in the mobile app, that's also been happening all along, to varying degrees on various devices. It only happens in the Godville app browser — load the same page in mobile Chrome or Firefox, and it renders perfectly. I have no idea what the devs are doing to break page layout in their mobile app, but <span style="font-family:monospace; font-weight:bold;">¯\_(ツ)_/¯</span>. -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 02:30, 18 January 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
::: No, this is definitely a new issue, it happens on all info boxes and all skins and did not look like this before. Before today, infoboxes were only slightly cut off, with the words sitting right on the margin, still legible. And the info box appearing halfway down the page is also something new and appears on all pages, even ones that haven’t been recently changed. Though if nothing about the info boxes themselves has changed, I have no clue what the cause could be.
 
 
 
::: I’ve now noticed that the pages do have the correct layout on the mobile version of the desktop, but the infoboxes are still the same. —[[User:Holy Spirit of Hell|Holy Spirit of Hell]] ([[User talk:Holy Spirit of Hell|talk]]) 19:31, 18 January 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
::: On further experimentation, the page and all others render the exact same way in mobile Firefox and Chrome, it is broken in every fashion that I can access it with my iPhone 5S. Furthermore, using the mobile ‘desktop’ version, the infoboxes have shifted even further to the left side of the screen, cutting off more text, something has definitely changed [[User:Holy Spirit of Hell|Holy Spirit of Hell]] ([[User talk:Holy Spirit of Hell|talk]]) 21:06, 19 January 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
:::: I think that's a great and clever solution with the tools that are available! Even though it's a band-aid fix, I think it looks good and serves its purpose well. --[[User:Terezka|Terezka]] ([[User talk:Terezka|talk]]) 20:23, 18 January 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
::::: Agreed on good workaround. Congrats [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]]. -- [[User:S624|S624]] ([[User talk:S624|talk]]) 20:27, 18 January 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
{{outdent|:::::}} Thanks, all. This fix is now in place for {{tlx|Archives}} and all templates based on {{tlx|Infobox}}: {{tlx|Monster}}, {{tlx|Equipment}}, {{tlx|Artifact}}, {{tlx|Town}}. (That list will expand to include {{tlx|Guild}} when I release the new Guild template — see [[User:FeRDNYC/Sandbox]] — which will most likely happen some time this weekend.) I'm not planning to screw around with other templates like {{tlx|Usergod}}/{{tlx|Usergoddess}} or {{tlx|Hero}}, for the moment. If anyone can think of any right-floated templates '''other''' than the ones I just mentioned which would be candidates for this fix, please let me know. I'm currently not coming up with any.
 
 
 
The {{tlx|spacer}} addition can be disabled on any page where it's causing a problem by adding {{para|spacer|no}} to the template arguments, and it can be disabled globally by undoing the appropriate edit at [[Template:Archives]] and/or [[Template:Infobox]]. -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 15:38, 19 January 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
: Re: {{god|Holy Spirit of Hell}}'s comments, above, which use the [[Beerburglar]] page as an example (but are '''not''' limited to that page, I understand)...
 
 
 
: {{tqb|Before today, infoboxes were only slightly cut off, with the words sitting right on the margin, still legible. And the info box appearing halfway down the page is also something new and appears on all pages, even ones that haven’t been recently changed. Though if nothing about the info boxes themselves has changed, I have no clue what the cause could be.}}
 
 
 
: You can see from the edit history for [https://wiki.godvillegame.com/index.php?title=Template:Infobox&action=history Template:Infobox] and [https://wiki.godvillegame.com/index.php?title=Template:Monster&action=history Template:Monster] that, before today (the 19th), the most recent changes of any sort were 6 days ago on the 13th (for [[Template:Infobox]], not counting that edit on the 14th to undo the previous change), or 10 days ago (for [[Template:Monster]]) — nothing changed on the 18th (the day your "Before today" referenced) at all.
 
 
 
: Those changes on the 13th '''''could've''''' affected infobox layout on the iPhone, though they ''shouldn't'' have since I just removed some DIVs that were put in place for the old Minerva mobile skin that's not in use anymore. More likely to have affected layout would be the changes on the 9th, which did involve changes to widths and font sizes. But if anything's been changed more recently than that, it must've been done outside of the wiki content.
 
 
 
: {{tqb|On further experimentation, the page and all others render the exact same way in mobile Firefox and Chrome, it is broken in every fashion that I can access it with my iPhone 5S. Furthermore, using the mobile ‘desktop’ version, the infoboxes have shifted even further to the left side of the screen, cutting off more text, something has definitely changed}}
 
 
 
: Yeah, sorry, that was me being unclear. The thing about Firefox/Chrome was Android-specific; it wouldn't apply to iPhone since [https://www.howtogeek.com/184283/why-third-party-browsers-will-always-be-inferior-to-safari-on-iphone-and-ipad/ all web browsers on iPhone use the Safari layout engine], so differences would not be expected or... well, ''possible'' really.
 
 
 
: And as far as the iPhone, I'm still milking that free BrowserStack trial, and its screenshot service corroborates your experience regarding the cut-off infoboxes on iPhone 5 ([https://imgur.com/a/prOgKo2 screenshots]) — but notice that it's ''only'' on iPhone 5, at least of the devices represented. (A sadly very limited list which I have no control over, now that I've exhausted the live-testing portion of my free trial.)
 
 
 
: But on the question of '''why''' it's rendering like that on the iPhone: I have no idea, sorry. I don't have an iPhone or have access to an iPhone, and since I don't have any way to test on iOS devices (or a reasonable substitute) anymore, I don't have any way to reproduce or examine the issue. Which does not occur on any devices I '''do''' have access to.
 
 
 
: Just looking at the screenshots, it sort of ''looks'' like the issue could be related to the image size, like it's too large for the display... but I last changed '''that''' [https://wiki.godvillegame.com/index.php?title=Template:Infobox_image&action=history on December 9] so it would be weird if it's only coming up now. -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 23:26, 19 January 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
:: {{god|FeRDNYC}}, the display size on the SE, which your simulator shows working correctly, if shifted downwards, has the same display size, so I don’t think the image size is the problem. The difference is in the processor and the RAM, with the SE being a lot more powerful, so that probably has something to do with it.
 
 
 
 
 
:: I’m not sure that I’ve looked at any normal GodWiki articles between the 13th and the day of my first reply, so the formatting change could be what has shifted the infoboxes, since there it has changed and there seems to be nothing else that could have caused it —[[User:Holy Spirit of Hell|Holy Spirit of Hell]] ([[User talk:Holy Spirit of Hell|talk]]) 01:55, 20 January 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
::: Ah, sorry — the Imgur captions are ''below'' the images they respond to, so the '''first''' screenshot with the shifting-off-the-left-edge issue is actually the iPhone SE. I misremembered which model it was because 5 and S look the same and Apple's naming scheme is fucking moronic. All the ''rest'' of the screenshots are different Android devices. (The "Shifted down" on the next image — the Nexus 5 — is just because BrowserStack's Android device testbeds don't assemble long web content screenshots seamlessly, so there are visible page breaks every screen-length... the first of which happens to fall right before the infobox, on that device.)
 
 
 
::: If it's possible the issue started on the 13th, then it could be the removal of those DIVs I suppose. In which case, that sucks, because they were causing crazy-excessive margins around the infoboxes on desktop, so they really need to not be there. (They were never ''correct'' in the first place, I was abusing the CSS of the now-disabled mobile skin to avoid a table-sizing issue.) I'd suggest reporting the issue with infobox layout on iOS to the Godville devs. -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 04:49, 20 January 2019 (UTC)
 
{{outdent|::::}} Apropos of nothing at all, really, I just captured [http://imgur.com/gallery/eNrHpfQ this screenshot] while reading an article from Stargate fan blog Gateworld on my phone. It weirdly makes me feel a little better that we're not the only ones fighting this issue. (Not that I ever thought we were.) -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 23:13, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
== Formatting g.e. dates ==
 
 
 
Inspired by the work {{god|WardPhoenix}} and {{god|SourceRunner}} were doing on the [[Godbuster]] article, which makes excellent use of g.e. dates, I realized that we should be doing more to assist with and standardize the formatting of those dates. (Why this article in particular triggered the idea, I can't say, but it happened to strike me while reading it.) Basically:
 
# The dates and the "g.e." after them should really be connected ''by a '''non-breaking''' space'', so they won't be broken up by line-wrapping.
 
# That's something that a template can easily take care of.
 
 
 
My initial idea was to just change template {{tlx|ge}} so it would add "<code>&amp;nbsp;g.e.</code>" to the end of the output, but it's used all over the wiki in places where it's expected '''not''' to do that, and it would be a massive pain to change them all.
 
 
 
Instead I hacked up a new template {{tlx|date ge}} — it works like {{tlx|ge}} in many ways, '''except''' it always appends "<code>&amp;nbsp;g.e.</code>" to its output, and you can use {{tlx|date ge|<var>number</var>}} to format a g.e. date without conversion.
 
 
 
So, to borrow some examples from [[Template:GE/Documentation#Examples of use|the documentation]]:
 
<div style="margin-left:1.6em;border:1px solid #888;padding:0.2em;">
 
;<code><nowiki>[[</nowiki>Godville (game)|Godville]] was born on {{tlf|date ge|ge{{=}}0}}!</code> {{nobold|''appears as:''}}
 
: [[Godville (game)|Godville]] was born on {{date ge|ge=0}}!
 
 
 
;<code>The 5th of August 2013 was {{tlf|date ge|1183}}</code> {{nobold|''appears as:''}}
 
:The 5th of August 2013 was {{date ge|1183}}
 
 
 
;<code>The 15th of December 2011 was {{tlf|date ge|12|15|2011}}</code> {{nobold|''appears as:''}}
 
:The 15th of December 2011 was {{date ge|12|52|2011}}
 
</div>
 
'''TL;DR''': Basically,
 
# Anywhere you're writing "<code><var>number</var> g.e.</code>", you can instead use {{tlx|date ge|<var>number</var>}} and the date will be formatted properly to protect against line wrapping.
 
# Anywhere you're writing "<code>{{tlf|ge|<var>mm</var>|<var>dd</var>|<var>yyyy</var>}} g.e.</code>" can become "{{tlx|date ge|<var>mm</var>|<var>dd</var>|<var>yyyy</var>}}" to take advantage of the same protection.
 
And to illustrate the main reason for this template (besides the fact that typing "<code>&amp;nbsp;g.e.</code>" constantly is a pain), here's the difference vs. just typing "{{tlx|ge|1|26|2019}}<code> g.e.</code>" or "<code><var>number</var> g.e.</code>" with a normal space:
 
<div style="margin-left:1.6em;border:1px solid #888;padding:0.2em;width:9em;float:left;">
 
Before:<br>
 
:Written&nbsp;on&nbsp;{{ge|1|26|2019}}<br>g.e.
 
</div>
 
<div style="margin-left:1.6em;border:1px solid #888;padding:0.2em;width:9em;float:left;">
 
After:<br>
 
:Written&nbsp;on<br>{{date ge|1|26|2019}}
 
</div>{{clear}}
 
-- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 21:26, 26 January 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
== Activation cost in Artifact infobox ==
 
 
 
The {{tlx|Artifact}} template now supports a {{para|cost}} parameter, used to specify the activation cost of [[activatable artifacts]]. Possible values are:
 
:{{para|cost|0}} – Requires no godpower to activate (can also be: <code>free</code>,<code>none</code>,<code>0%</code>)
 
:{{para|cost|50}} – Requires 50% of godpower to activate (can also be: <code>50%</code>)
 
See it in use at [[Subplot thickener]].
 
-- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 23:02, 26 January 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
== Subtypes now implied in monster template ==
 
 
 
After a small coding error that briefly caused ''all'' monster articles to appear in [[:Category:Boss-Monsters]] (whoops, sorry about that), the {{tlx|monster}} template is now upgraded so that it's no longer '''required''' that the sub-type be explicitly activated with {{para|pet|yes}}, {{para|boss|yes}}, or {{para|sea|yes}}. If any of the parameters that correspond to that type are set, it will imply the corresponding sub-type. The switches '''may''' still be used to activate a sub-type, and '''must''' still be used if none of the subtype parameters can be set.
 
 
 
Because of this implication, the parameters that correspond to subtypes have been given new canonical names that include their subtype. The old names can still be used, but the new ones are preferred.
 
 
 
What that means, by example:
 
*;It's no longer necessary to write
 
*: {{tlx|monster|pet{{=}}yes|levels{{=}}18-25}} or {{tlx|monster|pet{{=}}yes|feature{{=}}rideable}}
 
*;Instead write
 
*: {{tlx|monster|pet-levels{{=}}18-25}} or {{tlx|monster|pet-feature{{=}}rideable}}
 
 
 
*;It's no longer necessary to write: {{tlx|monster|boss{{=}}yes|boss-type{{=}}underground}}
 
*;Instead write: {{tlx|monster|boss-type{{=}}underground}}
 
 
 
*;It's no longer necessary to write:{{tlx|monster|sea{{=}}yes|names{{=}}1}}
 
*;Instead write: {{tlx|monster|sea-names{{=}}1}}
 
 
 
But, again, you '''must''' set {{para|boss|yes}} to create a [[boss-monster]] article if you are '''not''' setting a value for {{para|boss-type}} (including when you are leaving it blank). The same rule applies for the other subtype parameters.
 
 
 
Please report any issues caused by this change over at [[Template talk:Monster]]. -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 22:22, 16 February 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
:: Seems to work on the few cases i tried it, shortens the edits a little. Thanks! --[[User:WardPhoenix|WardPhoenix]] ([[User talk:WardPhoenix|talk]]) 14:01, 19 February 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
== Notes on potentials dupes on Lists==
 
 
 
Forgot to post it here (even though i told myself i'll do it) so leaving a short resume. We have potential dupes in lists (Omnibus List and all the equipment/artifact/etc) such for exemple the case of [[death note]] or [[Snooze button] which are referenced as both equipment and artifact.
 
 
 
Another exemple is the double eye-pacth who was referenced as equipment in 3 differents spelling (inquiry show that atleast two of them co-exist) and also referenced as artifact ; or the [[Gaolkeeper]] who redirect to [[Ghoulkeeper]] but i have no certitude the former don't exist independently from the latter.
 
 
 
If you want to help gather infomations, please take a look at the [[User talk:WardPhoenix|list on my talk page]] and don't hesitate to leave a note here or on the relative talk on my page. Thanks in advance to those who'll help! --[[User:WardPhoenix|WardPhoenix]] ([[User talk:WardPhoenix|talk]]) 14:01, 19 February 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
: It's been almost a month since i made that list and while some of them have been resolved, some name are still only one of their homonyms found in the game.
 
 
 
Would you agree on conclude that the one yet not found doesn't currently exist? And so to proceed to their deletion on lists (omnibus and respective list) ? --[[User:WardPhoenix|WardPhoenix]] ([[User talk:WardPhoenix|talk]]) 16:03, 12 March 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
: Makes sense to me. In general, my feeling is that if something ''doesn't'' have an article, and we're reasonably sure it's redundant with another listed item, might as well drop the duplicate from the list(s). That entry can always be added back in again. (Obviously, if there's an existing article then that's a totally different story.) -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 16:45, 13 March 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
:: [[Gaolkeeper]] redirecting to [[Ghoulkeeper]], that one doesn't really make sense to me. {{u|SourceRunner}} raised an objection to that redirect at one point, and I agree — while the two names are '''similar''', they really don't have anything to do with each other. It's possible whoever made the redirect wasn't familiar with the word "Gaol" as an alternate form of "jail", and assumed it was a typo of the closest-named monster.
 
 
 
:: And I see that there's now a stub [[Gaolkeeper]] article to replace the redirect, so that solves that. -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 16:51, 13 March 2019 (UTC).
 
 
 
== Small Edits on Main banner ==
 
 
 
I went bold, but i'll post the why there in case someone have an objection. I remplaced some of the category that appeared in the bottom of the welcome banner. Here are my changes :
 
 
 
*All Categories -> Guidelines
 
*All Pages -> Help/Requests
 
*Map of Godville -> Omnibus List
 
 
 
The 3 formers category are not really useful while the 3 remplacements may help for guidelines and help/request to have better exposure and for omnibus list to have a direct link especially for mobile user.
 
 
 
If someone have an objection, please undo and notify here.
 
 
 
--[[User:WardPhoenix|WardPhoenix]] ([[User talk:WardPhoenix|talk]]) 16:59, 24 March 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
: Makes sense to me. I have this weird reluctance to link to the [[Omnibus List]] directly from the [[Main Page]], but I can't explain ''why'' and I certainly recognize the utility to crossword <strike>cheaters</strike> solvers, so to heck with my reluctance. -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 07:31, 26 March 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
== A milestone approaches ==
 
 
 
I just happened to notice the following data point at [[Special:Statistics]]:
 
 
 
{|class="wikitable"
 
|-
 
| Page edits since GodWiki was set up || 99,802
 
|}
 
 
 
(And that'll be 99,803 with this post.) We're fast approaching the {{ordinal|100,000}} edit! -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 07:41, 26 March 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
== Misnamed monster? ==
 
 
 
Does anyone have any thoughts on my [[Talk:Space_Invader#Wrong_name.3F|rename suggestion]] for [[Space Invader]]? (Evidence ''appears'' to indicate that [[Personal Space Invader]] is actually the correct monster name. More details can be found in my [[Talk:Space_Invader#Wrong_name.3F|article talk-page post]].) All input welcome. -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 01:09, 22 March 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
:: I guess a page-move is the appropriate things to do if it's true. Don't remember seeing that monster in both name so i trust you on the matter. --[[User:WardPhoenix|WardPhoenix]] ([[User talk:WardPhoenix|talk]]) 13:45, 22 March 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
:: Pretty sure that you're right, [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]]. I've never seen it as just a space invader. -- [[User:SourceRunner|SourceRunner]] ([[User talk:SourceRunner|talk]]) 20:23, 23 March 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
::: Thanks all. I've moved the article, updated it for the new name (superficially; it's still pretty much written about "space invaders" the game and could use a reworking), and corrected the relevant list articles and redirect targets. -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 06:08, 26 March 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
:::: Had to happen eh.
 
{{Diary|text=18:49 Stood over the slaughtered Space Invader and delivered a heartfelt requiem for its departed warrior soul. I then looted 6 coins and a recovery disk from the twitching corpse, which I think is a fair fee for a requiem these days.}}
 
I feel sorry for your edits. --[[User:WardPhoenix|WardPhoenix]] ([[User talk:WardPhoenix|talk]]) 17:51, 27 March 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
::::: Eh! Reverts and move-backs are easy. At least now we know, thanks! I'll incorporate your diary entry into the article as well, in place of the obviously-outdated one there. (...Ooh. Unless we think ''both'' Monsters exist?) -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 09:21, 30 March 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
::::::: I'd say there is a high probability that both actually exist. --[[User:WardPhoenix|WardPhoenix]] ([[User talk:WardPhoenix|talk]]) 10:41, 30 March 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
:::::::: Mmm, well I won't add [[Personal Space Invader]] back to [[List of Monsters]] yet since it redirects to [[Space Invader]] now (and will until someone replaces the redirect with an article). If we get confirmation we can at least stick a stub with a diary entry in there. -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 10:46, 30 March 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
== Effect field for activatable artifacts in infobox ==
 
 
 
I've decided to try and get through some of my backlog of "things I've been meaning to do". (Your day will come, new {{tlx|Guild}} Infobox!) First up: More enhancements to the {{tlx|Artifact}} template for [[Activatable Artifacts]]!
 
 
 
The {{para|cost}} parameter was introduced a little while ago. Now the template supports a companion {{para|effect}} parameter, to (''succinctly'') document what happens when the artifact is activated. For now it's just a free-form text field, though a set of standard arguments [[Template talk:Artifact#Activation cost parameter|has been discussed]] and may still be implemented.
 
 
 
Along with this new parameter come styling and layout changes for the activation details, to group them together and make them stand out — much like the different monster types in {{tlx|Monster}}.
 
 
 
'''See it in use at [[Portable Tunnel]]'''.
 
 
 
Complete template documentation at {{tlx|Artifact}}. Report issues on the template's [[Template talk:Artifact|Talk page]], which can be reached using the "'''[[Template talk:Artifact|T]]'''" link at the bottom of the infobox. -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 16:16, 2 April 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
: Good job and thanks! Looks like I need to get back my GodWiki Gnome badge and I'll do some standardization when I can. --[[User:WardPhoenix|WardPhoenix]] ([[User talk:WardPhoenix|talk]]) 18:13, 2 April 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
:: As for now, most of articles have been templated with the new infobox. Which means most (not to say all) monsters, artifacts and equipments articles have the new infobox on them. --[[User:WardPhoenix|WardPhoenix]] ([[User talk:WardPhoenix|talk]]) 09:44, 7 April 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
== Adjustable-width spacers and the featured article box ==
 
 
 
Since the {{tlx|Featured}} box is now allowed to be narrower when placed alongside the {{tlx|Mainpageintro}} box (to give the longer intro text more space), the default <code>15em</code> width used for {{tlx|spacer}} won't allow the featured article text to fit alongside its image in many cases.
 
 
 
So, I expanded the spacer template with an optional parameter to adjust the size of the spacer {{tag|div}}, and {{tlx|spacer|width{{=}}8em}} is now the documented recommendation for formatting articles in [[Template:Featured]]. {{para|width}} can be any supported CSS length value, see documentation at [[Template:Spacer]]. -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 02:19, 3 April 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
== Merging of related main contents articles==
 
 
 
I already put it in the equipment talk page, but then i noticed most of the main contents articles : [[Monster]], [[Equipment]], [[Artifact]], [[Quest]], [[Skills]] and maybe some other articles have a similar "issue": Information spread into differents articles.
 
 
 
As for exemple, there is a [[Quest]] article, an [[Epic-quest]] article and finally a [[Mini-quest]] article. I think it would be better to have all of this into one article. as it would look probably better and we can still put direct redirect to the headers. Thoughts? --[[User:WardPhoenix|WardPhoenix]] ([[User talk:WardPhoenix|talk]]) 09:54, 7 April 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
: In '''''general''''' I absolutely feel the same way: fewer more comprehensive articles are preferable to lots of bouncing from page to page to page. As long as each article is well-organized, links and redirects can always be pointed to specific sections within the larger whole. Like, really, [[skills]] is a pretty poor article, and could easily contain an overall explanation as well as information about the three subtypes.
 
 
 
: The only reason I'd be reluctant to consolidate all of the Quest articles is due to the ''unfathomable'' amount of crufty detal people have shoved into [[Mini-quests]]. I definitely think [[Quests]] should ''cover'' all three types, instead of sort of forgetting [[Epic Quests]] and [[Mini-quests]] exist except for a brief "Related" link. But a lot of what's found at [[Mini-quests]] now might be better off renamed to "List of mini-quests" or something, and still kept separate from the main article. -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 18:33, 7 April 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
== Say "Hi" to the Skill Infobox Template! ==
 
 
 
As title say, the [[Template:Skill]] is born after a lot of copy-paste from an other template made by [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] (thanks to him for his advices by the way) and a good amount of frustration after loosing more than half an hour because I forgot a damn }} in the code and failed to notice it earlier...
 
 
 
Seriously, I almost cry out of joy when it started working correctly...*Ahem*
 
 
 
While quite simple since skills have only one paramater, this template allows skills articles to looks as good as the others article (except quests ones they are next on the line) as you can see in the [[Quantum fireball]].
 
 
 
If you're not fond of the color/wording/placeholder picture/emoji of categories  please feel free to say so. Upgrades are always possible and feedback always welcome! --[[User:WardPhoenix|WardPhoenix]] ([[User talk:WardPhoenix|talk]]) 23:52, 7 April 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
== Formatting change on Main Page ==
 
 
 
I'm trying something new with the set of links at the bottom of the gray box, on the main page. See what you think.
 
 
 
I never liked the way that section of the page rebalanced itself when shrinking, since its contents weren't all the same width (being different-length strings) and they got all wonky when they had to wrap. But I got inspired by some techniques I saw at [https://css-tricks.com/ CSS Tricks] and decided to try again. Finally admitting to myself that there was no way to make it look good without a border around each link was the key.
 
 
 
It's not ''perfect'', since with exactly the wrong page width you can still end up in this situation: https://imgur.com/a/q2B1gD1 — but with six items, there's really no way to avoid that. Can't win 'em all. I think it looks a lot better for the 4-wide, 3-wide, and 2-wide cases, though. -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 18:03, 20 April 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
:: Not gonna lie, it looks WAY better on mobile view right now. Good job! And now, I'm even asking myself if the same couldn't be done for the first part of the banner because right now it looks like this: https://imgur.com/qG1Z8pY. Having them in columns (which somehow is the case on desktop view but not on the mobile interface) would make the banner way more mobile friendly. --[[User:WardPhoenix|WardPhoenix]] ([[User talk:WardPhoenix|talk]]) 18:29, 20 April 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
::: Whoops! Sorry, that was actually my fault, a different change I was testing snuck in. Check it now, should be back to two columns. -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 20:03, 20 April 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
:::: (For some reason, the Godville devs eliminated the <code>padding-inline-start</code> width that normally protects the bullet character on lists. So, depending on the page width, it's possible for the bullets in the left column to slide right off the edge of the box. I was looking at trying to put the padding back, on that list. But I need to adjust the width for mobile, for that to work, so I'd intended to remove it until I could. Then I forgot.) -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 20:09, 20 April 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
{{outdent|:::::}} Okay, I re-applied that change to the bullet list, but in a way that lets the columns wrap a '''lot''' tighter. The bullets should now be protected from falling off the page, and mobile devices should now see ''at least'' two columns, possibly all 3 for devices with wider screens. -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 01:07, 21 April 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
:It keeps appearing as one column on my side, while the 6 below appear as two column. Maybe issue come from my screen size too. -- [[User:WardPhoenix|WardPhoenix]] ([[User talk:WardPhoenix|talk]]) 09:55, 21 April 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
:: Perhaps, though judging by that screenshot I'm surprised it wouldn't be able to fit at least ''two'' columns now. I guess it's also possible your phone browser simply doesn't support CSS columns, or doesn't support their inheritance from surrounding elements. (The list isn't actually styled multi-column, instead the {{tag|div|open}} ''containing'' the list is multi-column. ...The links below (the newly-boxed ones), like the four main page boxes, are stacked with Flexbox which is something else entirely.)
 
 
 
:: How many columns do you see here, on your phone?
 
<div style="margin-left:3.2em; border: 1px solid #aaa; padding: 0.2em; columns: 2 5em; column-gap: 0.5em; overflow: auto;">
 
<ul style="margin-top: 0;">
 
<li>Item 1</li>
 
<li>Item 2</li>
 
<li>Item 3</li>
 
<li>Item 4</li>
 
<li>Item 5</li></ul>
 
</div>
 
:: And how about here?
 
<div style="margin-left:3.2em; border: 1px solid #aaa; padding: 0.2em;">
 
<ul style="margin-top: 0; columns: 2 5em; column-gap: 0.5em; overflow: auto; padding-inline-start: 1em;">
 
<li>Item 1</li>
 
<li>Item 2</li>
 
<li>Item 3</li>
 
<li>Item 4</li>
 
<li>Item 5</li></ul>
 
</div>
 
:: -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 11:22, 22 April 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
::: Just checked, both appear as one column on my phone (on a side comment, dots doesn't appear on the second one on my phone). But as you say, my phone may not support some things as it is kinda old, the best would be to have more people feedback on this.
 
::: As a side note: I was wondering if we couldn't remove some categories that aren't really useful while you're trying to adjust that banner (and maybe trying to find a way for what we want people to see/use to be actually highlighted). Those categories to be removed IMHO would be:
 
:::*Pantheons : Which is a subcategory of gameplay, and not specialy important.
 
:::*Galleries : dead section
 
:::*Backstage : It's too unspecific
 
:::*Technical : I don't see the point to have this on the main banner except for advanced users
 
:::*Gods/Heroes/Guilds : I don't think people check those page to search for others gods/heroes/guilds
 
:::That would make a less dense banner I think. --[[User:WardPhoenix|WardPhoenix]] ([[User talk:WardPhoenix|talk]]) 11:51, 22 April 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
:::: Actually went with the changes, and there was no contestation sooo... xD --[[User:WardPhoenix|WardPhoenix]] ([[User talk:WardPhoenix|talk]]) 14:05, 30 April 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
== Reducing article cruft while raising content visibility ==
 
 
 
There are two different goals that have been rattling around in my head for a while, and I've recently come to realize that it's possible to actually work towards ''both'' of them simultaneously.
 
 
 
==== Goal 1: Raise the visibility of our actionable Categories====
 
This is something {{u|WardPhoenix}} took steps towards recently, by adding [[:Category:Stubs]] and [[:Category:Pictures needed]] to the Main Page intro box. That's a start, but I think we can do more.
 
 
 
Note that this is about what I call "''actionable''" categories, meaning categories in which a page's presence means that it ''requires action'' in some form — usually, editing or maintenance. The two categories I just mentioned are the primary ones, but there could be others in the future. [[Special:WantedPages]] is the somewhat-reductive ur example of an actionable category.
 
 
 
The other type of category, which I'll call "collective" categories, are the ones where membership is just a way of classifying articles. Those are less useful to the average reader, because the wiki's coverage is so lacking for most categories.
 
 
 
[[:Category:Towns]] contains at least ''nearly'' every town in the game, sure. But [[:Category:Monsters]] only contains a tiny subset of all the known monsters, unlike [[List of Monsters]] which is much more complete. That issue is even worse for, say, [[:Category:Activatable Artifacts]], which only contains the artifact articles that use {{tlx|Artifact}} and properly indicate the subject's activatable status, which is a an even smaller subset of the already very small subset of artifacts that have an article at all.
 
 
 
Anyway, point is there's not much value to the average visitor in being pointed at those categories. But the ''actionable'' categories, those we do want people to know about, and explore, and hopefully perhaps be inspired to pitch in and thin their membership out a bit.
 
 
 
What's the point of all this, though? Well, that brings me to goal #2...
 
 
 
==== Goal 2: Reduce both the presence and visibility of ancient "technical" cruft ====
 
A few pages on the wiki, to be blunt, just shouldn't be articles. They're not about ''anything'' to do with Godville, mostly they're wiki-internal [[:Category:Technical]] articles containing content hastily copypasted from Wikipedia, offering poor coverage of general wiki concepts in a way that isn't helpful to our users. (If we want people to read about wiki concepts, we should point them at the '''actual''' Wikipedia documentation on those concepts, which is far more readable, polished, and useful. Horse's mouth and all that.) Worse, they usually haven't been updated in several years, and they weren't very good to begin with.
 
 
 
These articles mostly seem to have been created to give notice templates about their related concepts something to link to, which I guess felt necessary at the time. I'm talking about articles like:
 
* [[Stub]] (which the {{tlx|stub}} template's message links to)
 
* [[Merge]] which is linked to from {{tlx|Merge}}
 
* [[Redirect]] which is linked to from ''[[Merge]]'' and also uselessly sucky
 
* [[Picture]] which is one of the like 17 different picture-uploading explanations on the wiki, and is linked to from {{tlx|picture}} and ''several'' of the Guidelines articles as well. (Even though [[Creators Manual#Images]] is also a thing, and IMHO [[Picture]] dumbs it down a bit ''too'' far.)
 
* (and probably others, this isn't presented as a comprehensive list)
 
 
 
Several such articles correspond to a tracking (and therefore actionable) category, so they typically refer the reader to it with a poorly-formatted, easy to miss link. [[Stub]], for instance, has "''List of [[:Category:Stubs|Stubs]]''" tucked away at the bottom of the intro section. [[Merge]], OTOH, doesn't even do the courtesy of linking to [[:Category:Proposed mergers]] — despite the fact that it would be ''good'' to have people know what, if any, pages are in that category.
 
 
 
====The proposal====
 
So, like I said, it occurs to me that those two goals can be achieved in tandem. Here's what I think we should do:
 
# Take what little ''useful'' content those articles contain, and place it at the top of the associated actionable-category page. So the tiny bit of stuff from [[Stub]] that isn't just badly-Xeroxed Wikipedia policy would go onto the [[:Category:Stubs]] page, so that it displays above the listing of category members.
 
# Do away with those articles '''completely''', redirecting them to the Category page.
 
 
 
So that way, when {{tlx|stub}} says "This article is a [[stub]].", clicking that link won't take the user to an article of minimal value. Instead, it'll take them ''directly'' to the list of stubs at [[:Category:Stubs]], with a brief explanation of how to create, expand, tag, and un-tag stub articles displayed right there at the top. It can even direct anyone interested to the [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Stub|Wikipedia:Stub]] article "for much more information".
 
 
 
Thoughts? -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 13:36, 30 March 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
====Feedback====
 
 
 
Basically, can't disagree. Not really much more to say, you said everything. --[[User:WardPhoenix|WardPhoenix]] ([[User talk:WardPhoenix|talk]]) 15:24, 30 March 2019 (UTC)
 
: Acutally did a first round of edits, [[Stub]] have been redirect to [[:Category:Stubs]] and all Categories Quest/Monster/Equipment/Artifact/Skills have been redirect to their list.--[[User:WardPhoenix|WardPhoenix]] ([[User talk:WardPhoenix|talk]]) 15:48, 30 March 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
:: Woah, regarding your recent edits, I think there may have been some miscommunication.
 
::# You can't redirect category pages to articles. (Because then, how would you see the list of members?)
 
::# You can't even redirect categories to other categories.<br/>(It's a [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion#Redirecting_categories|MediaWiki limitation]]. Instead of doing what you probably intend, it just breaks things.)
 
::# We wouldn't ''want'' to redirect the categories, anyway. What would be the point of having them, if we did?
 
 
 
::This proposal was about going in the other direction — redirecting e.g. [[Stub]] to [[:Category:Stubs]] ('''after''' moving the useful information to the [[:Category:Stubs]] page first). But not doing anything with the '''collective''' Categories. They serve their purpose as-is, the only thing we've changed in the past is ''linking'' less to, say, [[:Category:Monsters]] and more to [[List of Monsters]] (as the more useful of the two).
 
 
 
::But a <code><nowiki>#REDIRECT</nowiki></code> should '''never''' be placed on any page in the [[Special:Categories|Category:]] namespace. It won't actually redirect (if it goes outside that namespace), and it won't do the right thing if it's within the namespace. -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 15:56, 30 March 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
::: This is when a live chat would be useful xD Anyway we did the revert, and for the stubs article there was no useful information so just redirected quickly. --[[User:WardPhoenix|WardPhoenix]] ([[User talk:WardPhoenix|talk]]) 16:00, 30 March 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
:::: Easy enough to clean up, and no harm done. Yeah, MediaWiki's treatment of Category pages is... just ''weird'', and creates a lot of issues that require them to be handled specially. You can point anything you like ''to'' the Category pages, and even treat them ''as'' article pages if you like (which is what gave me the idea to move our technical content there, where it made sense), but there are a lot of traps in what will work '''from''' Category pages (and only Category pages) to the rest of the wiki. -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 16:03, 30 March 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
[[Merge]] have been redirected to the template, with the documentation having a link to the wikipedia page. [[Picture]] have been redirected to the [[Creators Manual]]. [[Redirect]] have been redirected to the wikipedia page (ironic). --[[User:WardPhoenix|WardPhoenix]] ([[User talk:WardPhoenix|talk]]) 11:58, 7 May 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
== Quest Infobox was already there. ==
 
 
 
Aside from the global issues of Mini-quests (see [[Talk:Mini-quests]]), the {{tlx|Quest}} infobox seems quite ready to deploy and is perfectly usable on every kind of quest article (type=mini/normal/epic).
 
 
 
Maybe the template will have additionnal parameters for mini-quest later on, but not in short term.
 
 
 
[[Catch the worm before the early bird]] is the first to receive the template if you want an exemple.
 
 
 
As always, any feedback is welcome. --[[User:WardPhoenix|WardPhoenix]] ([[User talk:WardPhoenix|talk]]) 13:52, 18 April 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
:: That looks great, {{u|WardPhoenix}}. Nice work.
 
:: I see that there's an option for ignoring that there is no image... is there a way to insert the quest-progress template to display where the picture would be, if someone did not want to create a pic? --[[User:SourceRunner|SourceRunner]] ([[User talk:SourceRunner|talk]]) 15:50, 18 April 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
::: I didn't found a way to add the {{tlx|Diaryquest}} at the same place as the picture '''yet''' (it doesn't display properly). But it is possible to insert it in the description parameter. Then it's possible to add {{para|ignore-no-image|<var>yes</var>}} to not have the picture needed banner and leave the article with the placeholder image. Obviously, t's also placable in the introduction of the text, one template doesn't prohibit the other I think. I'll try to dig if I found something, or maybe [[User:FeRDNYC]] will know a solution. --[[User:WardPhoenix|WardPhoenix]] ([[User talk:WardPhoenix|talk]]) 18:30, 18 April 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
:::: You're awesome. Thanks for being willing to figure something out. It's not a dire thing, I was just thinking that some quest writers might just want to put the progress bar where the picture is, instead. But hey, we could make it in a sandbox, screen-shot it, and then load the screenshot in as the picture, right?
 
:::: Seriously, you've done great work on this, Ward. --[[User:SourceRunner|SourceRunner]] ([[User talk:SourceRunner|talk]]) 13:30, 19 April 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
::::: I guess a screenshot would work, but I would have prefered to have a more direct way. By the way, I noticed that {{tlx|Diaryquest}} can also be put as a caption and so will appear just below the placeholder picture. It doesn't look really great but still something.
 
::::: Didn't found a way to hide the picture without ruining everything, this exceeds my meager skills in the coding of that template (and I tried every stupid idea I thought about). --[[User:WardPhoenix|WardPhoenix]] ([[User talk:WardPhoenix|talk]]) 14:57, 19 April 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
:::::: I'll take a look, I can definitely come up with a special {{para|mode|infobox}} switch for {{tlx|Diaryquest}} that formats it all special-like, if nothing else. I'd definitely prefer that to a screenshot. -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 18:03, 20 April 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
::::::: I have posted an Idea™ over at [[Template talk:Quest#Incorporating Diaryquest|the template Talk page]]. -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 20:01, 20 April 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
After some rework following the feedback (thanks [[User:SourceRunner|SourceRunner]]!) , I'd say the template have reach a new state of finished, many thanks to [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] for his work. --[[User:WardPhoenix|WardPhoenix]] ([[User talk:WardPhoenix|talk]]) 14:16, 30 April 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
== The template you didn't know you needed ==
 
 
 
Added a new {{tlx|Top}} template to the GodWiki. This add a floating "Back to the top" button to, well, get back to the top of the page in a single click. Useful for very long page I'd say, like [[SummerWiki 2019]] or the [[GodWiki's Lore Compendium]].
 
 
 
What do you think about it? --[[User:WardPhoenix|WardPhoenix]] ([[User talk:WardPhoenix|talk]]) 14:04, 3 June 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
:: '''++''' -- [[User:S624|S624]] ([[User talk:S624|talk]]) 16:32, 3 June 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
== Double Redirect Page Issue ==
 
 
 
After wandering through the red link page list, I stumbled upon the [[Special:DoubleRedirects|double redirect page]].
 
While I did fix one of them, the second one I'm afraid cannot be fixed without intervention by a database operator.
 
The page in question has the title "Godville_(Town) " (which is the same as the [[Godville (Town)]] page just with an extra non-breaking white space at the end of it.)
 
 
 
The problem is that MediaWiki internally strips the extra white space off the end of the page title before actually doing anything with it. This means that from the front end, you can't access the erroneous [https://wiki.godvillegame.com/Godville_(Town)%C2%A0 Godville_(Town) ] page at all. From what I was able to recreate on my own private wiki, the only way to fix it is going into the "page" table in the database and looking for a row with "Godville_(Town) " or "476f6476696c6c655f28546f776e29c2a0" in the "page_title" column. (The "47...a0" is the url encoded version of "Godville_(Town) " which my wiki automatically changed it to after I manually edited a page on my private wiki to have that name.) A wiki/database operator would have to go in and manually change the page title of the relevant row to remove the trailing space so that we can actually edit/delete the erroneous page, or something. I've spent the past few hours trying to find a solution online and by experimenting on my own wiki and the only way I've been able to fix such an error on my wiki is by manually editing the database.
 
 
 
You can spot the two pages when you search for "Godville (Town)" (eg: [https://wiki.godvillegame.com/index.php?search=Godville+%28Town%29&title=Special%3ASearch&profile=default&fulltext=1 this search])
 
 
 
It's not exactly a big problem, but, on the search results it means that two identical "Godville (Town)" pages are listed, one of them redirecting to [[Godville (Disambiguation)]] and the other being the [[Godville (Town)|page proper]]. It's more of an annoyance factor than an issue. Though, the million dollar question is how such pages actually managed to come into existence since MediaWiki sanitizes page titles...
 
 
 
{{anchor|malformed-pages}}Other pages with this issue:
 
{| class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
 
! Page !! Redirect? !! Search link !! Encoded equivalent
 
|-
 
|[https://wiki.godvillegame.com/3D_Interface%C2%A0 3D Interface ]||''redirect''||[https://wiki.godvillegame.com/index.php?search=3D+Interface%C2%A0&title=Special%3ASearch&profile=default&fulltext=1 search]||<code>33445f496e74657266616365c2a0</code>
 
|-
 
|[https://wiki.godvillegame.com/Equipment%C2%A0 Equipment ]||''redirect''||[https://wiki.godvillegame.com/index.php?search=Equipment%C2%A0&title=Special%3ASearch&profile=default&fulltext=1 search]||<code>45717569706d656e74c2a0</code>
 
|-
 
|[https://wiki.godvillegame.com/Gold_bricks%C2%A0 Gold bricks ]||''redirect''||[https://wiki.godvillegame.com/index.php?search=Gold+bricks%C2%A0&title=Special%3ASearch&profile=default&fulltext=1 search]||<code>476f6c645f627269636b73c2a0</code>
 
|-
 
|[https://wiki.godvillegame.com/Grayscaled_Dragon%C2%A0 Grayscaled Dragon ]||''redirect''||[https://wiki.godvillegame.com/index.php?search=Grayscaled+Dragon%C2%A0&title=Special%3ASearch&profile=default&fulltext=1 search]||<code>477261797363616c65645f447261676f6ec2a0</code>
 
|-
 
|[https://wiki.godvillegame.com/Ideabox%C2%A0 Ideabox ]||'''NOT''' a redirect||[https://wiki.godvillegame.com/index.php?search=Ideabox%C2%A0&title=Special%3ASearch&profile=default&fulltext=1 search]||<code>49646561626f78c2a0</code>
 
|-
 
|[https://wiki.godvillegame.com/Lightsaber-Toothed_Tiger%C2%A0 Lightasber-Toothed Tiger ]||''redirect''||[https://wiki.godvillegame.com/index.php?search=Lightsaber-Toothed+Tiger%C2%A0&title=Special%3ASearch&profile=default&fulltext=1 search]||<code>4c6967687473616265722d546f6f746865645f5469676572c2a0</code>
 
|-
 
|[https://wiki.godvillegame.com/Pets%C2%A0 Pets ]||''redirect''||[https://wiki.godvillegame.com/index.php?search=Pets%C2%A0&title=Special%3ASearch&profile=default&fulltext=1 search]||<code>50657473c2a0</code>
 
|-
 
|[https://wiki.godvillegame.com/Probability%C2%A0 Probability ]||''redirect''||[https://wiki.godvillegame.com/index.php?search=Probability%C2%A0&title=Special%3ASearch&profile=default&fulltext=1 search]||<code>50726f626162696c697479c2a0</code>
 
|-
 
|[https://wiki.godvillegame.com/Temple%C2%A0 Temple ]||''redirect''||[https://wiki.godvillegame.com/index.php?search=Temple%C2%A0&title=Special%3ASearch&profile=default&fulltext=1 search]||<code>54656d706c65c2a0</code>
 
|-
 
|[https://wiki.godvillegame.com/Voice_of_god%C2%A0 Voice of god ]||''redirect''||[https://wiki.godvillegame.com/index.php?search=Voice+of+god%C2%A0&title=Special%3ASearch&profile=default&fulltext=1 search]||<code>566f6963655f6f665f676f64c2a0</code>
 
|-
 
|[https://wiki.godvillegame.com/Trollbridge%C2%A0 Trollbridge ]||''redirect''||[https://wiki.godvillegame.com/index.php?search=Trollbridge%C2%A0&title=Special%3ASearch&profile=default&fulltext=1 search]||<code>54726f6c6c627269646765c2a0</code>
 
|-
 
|[https://wiki.godvillegame.com/Godville_(Town)%C2%A0 Godville (Town) ]||''redirect''||[https://wiki.godvillegame.com/index.php?search=Godville+(Town)%C2%A0&title=Special%3ASearch&profile=default&fulltext=1 search]||<code>476f6476696c6c655f28546f776e29c2a0</code>
 
|}
 
I found these by searching the source of the [[Special:AllPages|all pages]] special page for "%C2%A0" in the web developer/inspector console in Firefox. these are only the ones in the main namespace, I did see that some pages in the [https://wiki.godvillegame.com/Talk:Pet_Personalities%C2%A0 Talk] namespace were also affected though. Perhaps I should go in and comb through the talk pages to see which ones are affected in that namespace too if this is actually reported as a bug?
 
 
 
I'm not sure where to go with this, but I felt I couldn't just do nothing after researching it this much. [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive#Sidebar_problem|From what I could see in the archive]], should I just submit a bug report via the feedback menu in-game linking to this topic? Also, sorry if this topic is a bit bulky or long, or not in the right place -- [[User:Emptysora|Emptysora]] ([[User talk:Emptysora|talk]]) 04:26, 13 November 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
: That's the same issue already talked about at [[Talk:Ideabox#The reason this article gets stuck on Special page listings|Talk:Ideabox]]. Basically, as you said, there is nothing we can do about it without admin access. I dunno if it was already reported as a bug to the admin, I'll leave that question to the oldest member. As for the why, those "phantom clone" exists, I'd take a guess and say they're probably artifacts of the starting years of the GodWiki, where countless of articles where created, and probably a lot of mistakes with it. --[[User:WardPhoenix|WardPhoenix]] ([[User talk:WardPhoenix|talk]]) 13:42, 13 November 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
:: Sorry I didn't reply to this sooner, I'm travelling for work at the moment and spending most of my time in an environment with no internet access. :)
 
 
 
:: {{u|Emptysora}}, I think it's a ''very'' good idea to report this to the Devs under the Ideabox->Other category. When submitting reports like this to the devs, '''''be very, ''very'' concise'''''. Focus on a short description of the issue, and a clear action to resolve it. If they have any questions or need clarification they'll PM you on Godville (they ask me to explain more detail when I submit bug reps, other, and <s>terrible</s> awesome ideas all the time).
 
 
 
:: If I understand correctly, the table above that's introduced with {{tqi|Other pages with this issue:}} means that you've found other malformed page titles in the Godwiki? I added an {{tlc|anchor|malformed-pages}} so that if you need to you can link directly to <code>https://wiki.godvillegame.com/Main_Page#malformed-pages</code> when you message the Devs about it.
 
 
 
:: I've noticed that same issue with the <code>Godville (town)&amp;nbsp;</code> page as well, and it's been somewhere on my mental list of stuff to dig into and chase down to report, so I'm absolutely delighted you've looked into it and really done the research to figure it out. I'm a ''massive'' dork and I really love bug hunting, which explains why I have 19 accepted bug reports in my Ideabox->Approved list, haha. I see that you have 1 Gratitude point, if you report this and it's fixed you'll earn yourself another one! 😄 -- [[User:Djonni|Djonni]] ([[User talk:Djonni|talk]]) 21:22, 13 November 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
::: Just sent the bug report. I like finding bugs myself, so when I see things like this, I don't usually rest until I've figured out what is wrong. I'm pretty sure my gratitude point is from a different bug report (the extra "%" at the end of the "you need XX%% godpower" message on mobile). Well, all we can do is wait. if they use software like PhpMyAdmin (which my private wiki has) it'll be pretty easy to find and modify the pages, otherwise they'd have to use an SQL console. I noticed that whenever such pages are forcibly edited in, creating/deleting/moving a page (anything that updates the "page" table) causes those titles to become hex encoded. I basically suggested they be renamed on the pattern of "*_(old)" so we could go in later and deal with them if need be. I doubt we'll keep the pages since the last time they have been modified is in like 2010 / 2011. I find it funny, just a few days ago, I was too shy to even create my own user page, and now I'm doing this. Thanks {{u|Djonni}} and {{u|WardPhoenix}}. -- [[User:Emptysora|Emptysora]] ([[User talk:Emptysora|talk]]) 21:54, 13 November 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
:::: Great work, {{u|Emptysora}}, I'm glad we have your sharp eyes and detective skills on the case. In my experience, if a bug rep is going to be addressed, it will be done quite promptly, usually within a few days. If it hasn't been fixed in a couple of months, we can try reworking the report to be more succinct, or persuasive, or have a clearer resolution and call to action, and resubmit. But I expect we'll see this old problem cleared up pretty promptly now thanks to your work! -- [[User:Djonni|Djonni]] ([[User talk:Djonni|talk]]) 21:58, 13 November 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
::::: Yeah, if it doesn't go through, I'm going to email the support address directly since email can support images. Images can't be sent via the bug report form after all. That's kind of why I put the search links in there too. I hope it's resolved soon, that '''#PhantomPage''' as it was called on the [[Talk:Ideabox#The reason this article gets stuck on Special page listings|Talk:Ideabox]] page was bugging me. -- [[User:Emptysora|Emptysora]] ([[User talk:Emptysora|talk]]) 22:03, 13 November 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
:::::: Well, I guess I have good news. The bug report I submitted is listed in my "approved submissions" page, and I can't find the "phantom" pages anymore. Seems like I have to admit that the devs are awesome (although, we already know that), and thank them. Problem Resolved. -- [[User:Emptysora|Emptysora]] ([[User talk:Emptysora|talk]]) 17:11, 14 November 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
== Modification to navboxes ==
 
 
 
Before I go ahead and do this, I wanted some opinions on this idea (which certainly won’t be my last). It’s regarding the navboxes. With the way they are set up right now, on larger navboxes, like the Pets one, it is hard to see where the current page is listed in the navbox.
 
 
 
This can be a bit trying, for example, if you’re trying to see if your pet has an ability from the navbox. What I’m basically suggesting is a slight rewrite of the navboxes such that the links be changed to a template call like <code><nowiki>{{lnk|Link|Display}}</nowiki></code> instead of <code><nowiki>[[Link|Display]]</nowiki></code>. The “Lnk” template would then detect if the current page is the linked article, and either embolden or link the text based on that. A working demo is in my [[User:Emptysora/sandbox|sandbox]] and shown below.
 
 
 
It would look like this: {{Fake link|Link 1}}• {{Fake link|Link 2}}• '''Link 3'''• {{Fake link|Link 4}}
 
 
 
'''(((((EDIT: The above Template calls have been removed to avoid having them break things when I modify the sandbox — [[User:Emptysora|Emptysora]] ([[User talk:Emptysora|talk]]) 15:43, 18 November 2019 (UTC))))))'''
 
 
 
What are your thoughts? — [[User:Emptysora|Emptysora]] ([[User talk:Emptysora|talk]]) 01:53, 17 November 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
: Errr..... I don't know if I am misunderstanding what you are trying to say but... Isn't that already the case? I mean when you are in a page which is included in navbox, the page name within the navbox is black instead of blue, which make it very noticeable.
 
: If the link is not blacked (which is the case of the sun dog in pets for example) it's because the link in the navbox is actually a redirect and not the real page article (which is an error obviously, but I think it's actually the [[Sun dog]] that may need to be moved to [[Sun Dog]]).. -- [[User:WardPhoenix|WardPhoenix]] ([[User talk:WardPhoenix|talk]]) 09:46, 17 November 2019 (UTC)
 
:Nevermind, Sun dog is actually the good capitalization, fixed the navbox link and the text of the pet. --[[User:WardPhoenix|WardPhoenix]] ([[User talk:WardPhoenix|talk]]) 10:34, 17 November 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
:: So it apparently does do that, weird, it didn’t do it for me. However I guess that brings me to a different thing I wanted to bring up. I don’t feel like we should be having redirect pages for alternate capitalization. That’s not the point of a redirect. These redirects show up in the search autocomplete, which is annoying sometimes (try typing in “boss” and count how many unique pages are there). If a redirect has to be created just to achieve this, the template really should be modified. That’s not to mention the way that Navbox handles this linking process (See [[Template:Navbox items]], it’s archaic. Ie: what if we have more than a hundred items in a Navbox? The hundredth and so on fails to be displayed. Not to mention, having to call a sub template like that doesn’t seem that intuitive. I guess, what I’ll do, is modify the Navbox template in my sandbox, and update here when I’m done for feedback.
 
 
 
:: Capitalization should not be a factor in whether or not the link is bold or linked. — [[User:Emptysora|Emptysora]] ([[User talk:Emptysora|talk]]) 20:34, 17 November 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
::: I don't have the first clue about the behind the scenes creation of templates so staying away from that but seems that [[Sun Dog]] is the correct capitalization so undid the above change from [[User:WardPhoenix|WardPhoenix]], moved pages & redirects around so that Sun Dog is the main page & the only things that [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Sun_dog|link]] to [[Sun dog]] are deity, champion or guild pages. Both the pet & dogs navbox both show '''bold''' when on the Sun Dog page now. -- [[User:S624|S624]] ([[User talk:S624|talk]]) 21:45, 17 November 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
{{Outdent|:::}} It does seems that there is inconsistency between how the pets are nammed between diary entry and superhero page, which is why I assumed the false capitalization. I left a bug report about that to admins. Thanks for correcting [[User:S624|S624]].
 
As for the redirects and navboxes, I don't really understand what you are trying to say there [[User:Emptysora|Emptysora]]. Many of those redirect page are born from people writing an already existing article or from recapitalization / typo / name change/ <s>Obi-Wan Kenobi</s>. And since we can't delete those pages, well they are here. Better to have redirect on them instead of blank pages.
 
And I don't see the link you make between redirect and navboxes, they are differents things, abd ideally, a link in the navbox should lead to the correct page, not the redirect one. --[[User:WardPhoenix|WardPhoenix]] ([[User talk:WardPhoenix|talk]]) 21:58, 17 November 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
: No, what I’m saying is that capitalization shouldn’t matter in whether or not the page is linked or emboldened, eg: if the box says “Sun Dog” it should be bold on '''Sun dog''' ''and'' '''Sun Dog''', even if one of those pages is a redirect. (which it currently doesn’t do). This is important because if the capitalization of the content page’s title ever changes, it breaks the navboxes. (EG: if Sun dog was moved to Sun Dog, or vice versa) I agree that the link in the navbox *should* point to the page and not a redirect, but whether or not it does shouldn’t break the template.
 
 
 
: In other words, I’m trying to change the templates such that in-game capitalization does not dictate how we have to list things in navboxes. It’s just less of a chance for confusion. Arguably, the fact that this ''did'' confuse me, might be proof that is a decent thing to consider.
 
 
 
: As for the redirects, I use Wikipedia a lot (which uses an extension called CirrusSearch) so they have redirects hidden from search results. I assumed this was default behavior in MW (which clearly isn’t the case). So, I doubt there’s a reasonable fix we can do to resolve that:
 
 
 
: '''1)''' Either, we delete capitalization redirects. Search suggestions won’t display the five redirects all to [[Boss-monsters]]. But, if someone typed “Boss-M” [[Boss-monsters]] won’t appear. That leads into what you said about those pages existing because people created them assuming they didn’t exist. Ie: the pages are liable to be created again, ruining the point of deleting them. '''2)''' We somehow manage to convince the admins to install an extension like CirrusSearch (which odds of happening, I bet, are 0%). This would transparently hide the redirects resolving *both* issues. This implies: '''3)''' We do nothing. The redirects that clog the search suggestions potentially continue to either annoy or confuse readers, but since the redirects *are* present, nobody will get confused about whether or not a page exists.
 
 
 
: Apparently, MW (until 1.23) used to have a setting you could change to hide redirects from search results. I’d love to hear why they thought it was brilliant to force wikis to always have redirects included instead of leaving <code>srredirects</code> and defaulting it to <code>true</code>.
 
 
 
: Anyway, I’ll modify the templates in my sandbox and show you what I mean. We can discuss that after that. — [[User:Emptysora|Emptysora]] ([[User talk:Emptysora|talk]]) 23:59, 17 November 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
:: I just modified [[Template:Navbox items/Documentation]] adding in example code for a slight hack to get 100+ items in a Navbox list (multiple items template calls, the second and subsequent omitting the first unnamed parameter) so, I guess we can ignore that one. I’m only going to try to do the bold thing. That way we don’t have to manually modify the navboxes each time the pages are moved and shuffled around.
 
 
 
:: I thought the navbox template hadn’t been edited in years which is why I thought to overhaul it. That’s not the case, however. No need to change something that already has been updated and works (which is why I’m going to do the bold thing) — [[User:Emptysora|Emptysora]] ([[User talk:Emptysora|talk]]) 02:13, 18 November 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
::: Well, a couple things :)
 
 
 
::: Firstly, I do see your point about capitalisation in navboxes, ''but''. Capitalisation changes infrequently in the game, and we consider capitalisation an important part of the Godwiki's accuracy. So the statement {{tqi|That way we don’t have to manually modify the navboxes each time the pages are moved and shuffled around}} actually doesn't make a lot of sense on this wiki: if the capitalisation of the navbox entry and the capitalisation of the page don't match, ''one is wrong'' and ''should'' be changed. In many wikis there are genuine debates about how something should be capitalised, but not here. If someone moves or corrects a page, then we do need to go around fixing capitalisation elsewhere that it's wrong, and that includes navboxes. That's what we did when you pointed out the Sun Dog issue. :)
 
 
 
::: Don't get me wrong, I approve of the general idea of making stuff work smarter, but personally I think that in this case, all it would really achieve is hiding an error, making it less likely to be fixed. Since game items ''do'' have a canonical capitalisation, both the page titles and navbox should reflect this and match. Anything else is wrong.
 
 
 
::: That said, I certainly invite improvements to templates and their documentation at any opportunity. But you'll often find there's clear reasons why some things are done some ways, such as {{tlf|navbox list}}:
 
 
 
:::* Calling a sub-template allows for the entry of free text of necessary, because:
 
:::* We don't have Lua, or string parser functions. So we have *very* limited techniques when it comes to intelligently figuring out what the content of a parameter is, other than a straight <code>{{#ifeq:</code> or <code>{{#switch:</code>. So,
 
:::*No unlimited parameters here &mdash; any supported parameters must be hard-coded into templates.
 
 
 
::: And to a Wikipedia user, the word {{tqi|archaic}} would be pretty accurate for any Templates here; on Wikipedia, even the simplest templates were converted to Lua long ago, and do things like prettifying section links,  that we straight-up can't do.
 
 
 
::: That's not intended to discourage you from figuring out ways to improve the navbox templates, and of something needs overhauling then that's cool too. :)
 
 
 
::: Oh, and another thing, heh. {{tqi|1) Either, we delete capitalization redirects.}} Nope, "''we''" don't. No user has deletion rights, and I would be surprised (delighted, and surprised) of the Devs would have the time to do a minor perfect like that, as we have ~8 years of accumulated not-deleted pages to wade through. If at some point in future a new admin is appointed to replace the long-gone Spode, then that would definitely be something on {{his or her|or=y}} agenda.
 
 
 
::: Honestly, for Wikipedia users, this place has many <s>frustrations</s> quirks. It's somewhat ''less'' than a vanilla Wikimedia, as you've discovered. But switching off redirects in search results seems like an excellent thing to suggest (Ideabox->Other), as they are definitely a clutter! -- [[User:Djonni|Djonni]] ([[User talk:Djonni|talk]]) 03:35, 18 November 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
:::: Couple more things! :) Firstly, apologies if I'm not making complete sense, I'm gravely undercafiennated and just boarded a 4:30am train across the country, so I'm a touch addled. Which also contributes to, secondly, I hope my reply just now didn't seem curt or harsh in any way, it definitely wasn't meant to. And thirdly, on your point about no more than 100 terms in {{tlf|navbox items}}...
 
 
 
:::: I can see a benefit to adding a recursive call to navbox items at the end, <s>something like:</s> Moving this to [[Template talk:Navbox items]]! -- [[User:Djonni|Djonni]] ([[User talk:Djonni|talk]]) 04:28, 18 November 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
{{outdent|:::::}}
 
I had no idea recursive calls even worked, I thought they just result in the template name being included in bold...? Also, I’m not off-put. Though I definitely was concerned when I realized the template was recently edited. I used “archaic” not to mean “old in a rude way” (Sorry if I came off that way) more just “old.” I’ve been writing in my spare time recently, so words like that pop in when I’m not paying close attention.
 
 
 
As for the deletion, I know, I just typed that for form/convenience. (Ie: Mark for deletion).
 
 
 
As for capitalization, I can respect that, but, unless you explicitly have said pet, or encounter said monster, and reach the wiki from there, ''with the express intent of finding such an issue'' you’ll never realize the capitalization is off anyway, (and it will likely cause confusion as I experienced).  If, despite this, you think we should still keep it the same, that’s fine. I just wanted to point out that there’s probably only a handful of people keeping it this way would matter to (namely us).
 
 
 
So, do we prioritize convenience for editors / maintaining consistency in-game, or do we prioritize convenience for readers. I’m fine with either, though, since I read a lot, I’m leaning the latter (obviously).
 
 
 
Heh, modifying templates for the better is one of the things I wanted to do. When I first made this topic, I barely read the source for it. Sorry. — [[User:Emptysora|Emptysora]] ([[User talk:Emptysora|talk]]) 08:18, 18 November 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
: One of the reasons I was confused by redirects, is because on mobile app Wikipedia, search results may say “Redirected from: X” but it doesn’t when it’s just a capitalization thing. That’s why I assumed the redirect thing was by default.
 
 
 
: Also, I don’t think there’s a way to “turn off” redirects per se. if there is, I’d like to know, since it’s an issue on my private wiki, and I’m too lazy to install CirrusSearch right now. — [[User:Emptysora|Emptysora]] ([[User talk:Emptysora|talk]]) 08:35, 18 November 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
:: Very short on time but just had to say: 😆 {{tqi|with the express intent of finding such an issue you’ll never realize the capitalization is off anyway...}}
 
:: The longer you spend pottering around the wiki, watching recent changes, and seeing the edits made by non-regu are wiki contributors, the more surprised you'll be able what people do and don't notice and keep track of here. This game definitely attracts cataloguers, meticulous record keepers, and attention-to-detail personalities... We would know, since most of those who read these words will be that kind of person! 😉 -- [[User:Djonni|Djonni]] ([[User talk:Djonni|talk]]) 08:54, 18 November 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
::: I have a sudden random thought that remind me why capitalisation (or at least spelling ) is important.  [[Double eyepatch]], [[Double eye-patch]] and [[Double eye patch]] all exists and are different items. -- [[User:WardPhoenix|WardPhoenix]] ([[User talk:WardPhoenix|talk]]) 09:54, 18 November 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
:::: New personal goal:
 
 
 
:::: {{diaryquest|text=Submit "{{fake redlink|Double-eye patch}}" to the Ideabox and get it added to the game|status=0|title=Djonni's Diary}}
 
 
 
:::: ;) -- [[User:Djonni|Djonni]] ([[User talk:Djonni|talk]]) 09:59, 18 November 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
{{outdent|:::::}}
 
Heh. Maybe I should try double-eye-patch or double-eyepatch then.
 
 
 
In the very least, on the wiki, we should be consistent. I don’t know if there’s a [[GodWiki:Capitalization]] or similar page, which if none exists, we should probably create one. If we have, or make, one, we could link it in the Guideline articles. — [[User:Emptysora|Emptysora]] ([[User talk:Emptysora|talk]]) 10:47, 18 November 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
: Just modified the initial post to remove the template calls so they don’t break when I inevitably forget this discussion exists and change my sandbox.
 
 
 
: I’ll abandon the link thing. I still think we should create a caps article if one doesn’t exist. It’d be a nice resource to reference while I’m editing metadata/redirects. — [[User:Emptysora|Emptysora]] ([[User talk:Emptysora|talk]]) 15:43, 18 November 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
== {{tlx|Navboxlists}} update ==
 
 
 
So, on my Sandbox page, I have been working to see how we could improve the lists included in the {{tlx|navboxlists}}, I copy pasted the work above so you can see how the edit button appears and how the editable content would appear, while the 8 is how it is at the moment in the lists.
 
 
 
I also tried different format ,my personnal preference going to the one presented in the -2-.
 
Adding the edit button directly in the list like in 5 or 6 are risky because it became easyy to break the whole thing.
 
 
 
The pros of this update:
 
* Easier to update lists, since we can edit directly to the letter, instead of having to scroll to the whole alphabet in the edit box.
 
* The deities with old phones that doesn't have enough RAM (like mine...) will no longer have crash issues when trying to update the lists from mobile.
 
 
 
The cons of this update:
 
* Well, it's obviously not as good looking.
 
* Columns width are inconsistent (maybe can be fixed)
 
 
 
Thoughts?
 
 
 
: I've been watching your work on this with interest, trying to think along with you about how best to handle this. I agree, it would be good to find an elegant solution.
 
 
 
: I'll add one more point to the list of cons with separated tables:
 
 
 
:* List is no longer sortable in a useful way
 
 
 
: Inconsistent column widths can be fixed, simply by setting fixed <code>%</code> widths to each column in each table.
 
 
 
: I have an alternative solution that I've been working on mentally. It's very hard to give a demonstration, however, as the solution requires making a subpage for every section. And it definitely has its own pros and cons. I'll try and explain it as clearly as I can.
 
 
 
: On the ''List of...'' page, you would have a table that looks like this:
 
 
 
<pre>
 
{| class="wikitable sortable" style="width: 100%;"
 
|- id="Title"
 
! colspan="3" |<big>Artifacts</big>
 
|- id="Index"
 
!  colspan="3"  | <big>[[#s_0|0]] [[#s_1|1]] [[#s_2|2]] [[#s_5|5]] [[#s_6|6]] [[#s_8|8]] [[#s_A|A]] [[#s_B|B]] [[#s_C|C]] [[#s_D|D]] [[#s_E|E]] [[#s_F|F]] [[#s_G|G]] [[#s_H|H]] [[#s_I|I]] [[#s_J|J]] [[#s_K|K]] [[#s_L|L]] [[#s_M|M]] [[#s_N|N]] [[#s_O|O]] [[#s_P|P]] [[#s_Q|Q]] [[#s_R|R]] [[#s_S|S]] [[#s_T|T]] [[#s_U|U]] [[#s_V|V]] [[#s_W|W]] [[#s_X|X]] [[#s_Y|Y]] [[#s_Z|Z]] [[#s_ZZSpecial|Special]]</big>
 
|- id="sort separator"
 
| colspan="3" style="display: none" | <br>
 
|- id="s_0"
 
!  colspan="3"  style="text-align: center;" data-sort-value="0" | <big>- 0 -&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</big><small>[[#Title|Top]]</small><div class="plainlinks" style="float:right;">[https://wiki.godvillegame.com/index.php?title=List_of_Artifacts/0&action=edit Edit 0]</div>
 
|-
 
{{:List of Artifacts/0}}
 
|- id="s_1"
 
!  colspan="3"  style="text-align: center;" data-sort-value="1" | <big>- 1 -&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</big><small>[[#Title|Top]]</small><div class="plainlinks" style="float:right;">[https://wiki.godvillegame.com/index.php?title=List_of_Artifacts/1&action=edit Edit 1]</div>
 
|-
 
{{:List of Artifacts/1}}
 
|- id="s_2"
 
!  colspan="3"  style="text-align: center;" data-sort-value="2" | <big>- 2 -&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</big><small>[[#Title|Top]]</small><div class="plainlinks" style="float:right;">[https://wiki.godvillegame.com/index.php?title=List_of_Artifacts/2&action=edit Edit 2]</div>
 
|-
 
{{:List of Artifacts/2}}
 
|- id="s_3"
 
!  colspan="3"  style="text-align: center;" data-sort-value="3" | <big>- 3 -&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</big><small>[[#Title|Top]]</small><div class="plainlinks" style="float:right;">[https://wiki.godvillegame.com/index.php?title=List_of_Artifacts/3&action=edit Edit 3]</div>
 
|-
 
{{:List of Artifacts/3}}
 
.
 
.
 
.</pre>
 
{| class="wikitable sortable" style="width: 100%;"
 
|- id="Title"
 
! colspan="3" |<big>Artifacts</big>
 
|- id="Index"
 
!  colspan="3"  | <big>[[#s_0|0]] [[#s_1|1]] [[#s_2|2]] [[#s_5|5]] [[#s_6|6]] [[#s_8|8]] [[#s_A|A]] [[#s_B|B]] [[#s_C|C]] [[#s_D|D]] [[#s_E|E]] [[#s_F|F]] [[#s_G|G]] [[#s_H|H]] [[#s_I|I]] [[#s_J|J]] [[#s_K|K]] [[#s_L|L]] [[#s_M|M]] [[#s_N|N]] [[#s_O|O]] [[#s_P|P]] [[#s_Q|Q]] [[#s_R|R]] [[#s_S|S]] [[#s_T|T]] [[#s_U|U]] [[#s_V|V]] [[#s_W|W]] [[#s_X|X]] [[#s_Y|Y]] [[#s_Z|Z]] [[#s_ZZSpecial|Special]]</big>
 
|- id="sort separator"
 
| colspan="3" style="display: none" | <br>
 
|- id="s_0"
 
!  colspan="3"  style="text-align: center;" data-sort-value="0" | <big>- 0 -&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</big><small>[[#Title|Top]]</small><div class="plainlinks" style="float:right;">[https://wiki.godvillegame.com/index.php?title=List_of_Artifacts/0&action=edit Edit 0]</div>
 
|-
 
|<code><nowiki>{{:List of Artifacts/0}}</nowiki></code>
 
|- id="s_1"
 
!  colspan="3"  style="text-align: center;" data-sort-value="1" | <big>- 1 -&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</big><small>[[#Title|Top]]</small><div class="plainlinks" style="float:right;">[https://wiki.godvillegame.com/index.php?title=List_of_Artifacts/1&action=edit Edit 1]</div>
 
|-
 
|<code><nowiki>{{:List of Artifacts/1}}</nowiki></code>
 
|- id="s_2"
 
!  colspan="3"  style="text-align: center;" data-sort-value="2" | <big>- 2 -&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</big><small>[[#Title|Top]]</small><div class="plainlinks" style="float:right;">[https://wiki.godvillegame.com/index.php?title=List_of_Artifacts/2&action=edit Edit 2]</div>
 
|-
 
|<code><nowiki>{{:List of Artifacts/2}}</nowiki></code>
 
|- id="s_3"
 
!  colspan="3"  style="text-align: center;" data-sort-value="3" | <big>- 3 -&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</big><small>[[#Title|Top]]</small><div class="plainlinks" style="float:right;">[https://wiki.godvillegame.com/index.php?title=List_of_Artifacts/3&action=edit Edit 3]</div>
 
|-
 
|<code><nowiki>{{:List of Artifacts/3}}</nowiki></code>
 
|}
 
 
 
:etc. Then, you would have each subpage like this:
 
 
 
:'''List of Artifacts/0'''
 
 
 
<pre>| [[0% discount coupon]]  ||  ||  </pre>
 
 
 
:'''List of Artifacts/1'''
 
 
 
<pre>| [[1-calorie meal]]  ||  ||
 
|-
 
| [[1-for-the-price-of-2 voucher]]  ||  || 
 
|-
 
| [[100-lb feather]]  ||  || 
 
|-
 
| [[12th step]]  ||  || 
 
|-
 
| [[19th hole]]  ||  || 
 
|-
 
| [[1x magnifying glass]]  ||  ||  </pre>
 
 
 
:'''List of Artifacts/2'''
 
 
 
<pre>| [[2 pcs (2 pcs)]]  ||  ||
 
|-
 
| [[24k goldfish]]  || B || 
 
|-
 
| [[25-hour clock]]  ||  || 
 
|-
 
| [[2D hologram]]  ||  ||  </pre>
 
 
 
:etc. Each subpage is transcluded into the main page, and would be invisible until you look into the page's wikicode, or hit one of the "Edit ''x''" links on the right.
 
 
 
:Pros:
 
 
 
:* The table remains intact, and attractive
 
:* Any problems/breakages are very easy to isolate and fix
 
:* Each sub-page has a clear and simple structure that you can easily contribute to without any wiki knowledge
 
:* The table doesn't need to have 30-something headers
 
:* The table will still be sortable
 
 
 
:Cons:
 
 
 
:* The sections are ''only'' editable on their subpages, you no longer have the option to edit the entire list together
 
:* The 'edit' button at the top of the ''List of...'' page becomes useless
 
:* The edit history of the list becomes spread across 30-something different pages
 
 
 
: I'm not at all convinced that this is a ''good'' idea. But it's the only other approach I can think of than using headers throughout the lists. I offer it mostly for contrast and comment. -- [[User:Djonni|Djonni]] ([[User talk:Djonni|talk]]) 14:42, 25 November 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
:: Take a look at this: [[Wikipedia:List of words having different meanings in American and British English (A–L)]]. This is how the other wiki does long lists. I don’t think transcluding wiki markup for a table is a very bright idea, that can still easily break, and be nearly impossible to find why. Arguably, being split over 30+ pages makes it ''harder'' to find. It also means we have to manage 31+ pages—''per list''.
 
 
 
:: On [https://m.bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/List_of_Pokémon bulbapedia] their “List of Pokémon” article is done multiple times instead of being forced to use sorting.
 
 
 
:: Things in-game have no real categorical value aside from: normal (all), italic, bold, activatable (artifacts), strong, boss, beastie, pet, (monsters), [skill type] (skills), [equipment type] (equipment), Epic, mini (quests), and so on. We could have: List of Artifacts, List of Bold Artifacts, ..., List of special monsters by type, List of Skills by name, List of Skills by type, ... etc.
 
 
 
:: Those all make some amount of sense (not that your ideas don’t), and would be useful to the other users. Eg: instead of having to fish through, [[List of Artifacts]] on mobile when a clue says “Bold artifact” you can just go to “List of Bold Artifacts”.
 
 
 
:: I say List of Special Monsters by Type because, special monsters account for a minuscule fraction of monsters. It’s so few our navboxes handle that job. (Hence a combined page)
 
 
 
:: Personally, i don’t think there is a ''correct'' solution for this per se. I believe that a ''mixture of our ideas'' are the solution. That being said, there is a guideline on Wikipedia that says that large articles like [[Wikipedia:America]] should be split up into smaller ones. Our list articles (especially omnibus, though that’s the point of it) are massive.
 
 
 
:: Either way, whatever we do decide to do, we need to keep a very close eye on the List articles so items don’t go missing. — [[User:Emptysora|Emptysora]] ([[User talk:Emptysora|talk]]) 16:29, 25 November 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
::: I can hardly go with your idea [[User:Djonni|Djonni]], when i have a full inventory of artifact and have a few to update, I don't really want to have to switch from 10 thousand pages! But thanks for sharing an idea for us!
 
::: I still prefer the header idea, like the 1st link on wikipedia that [[User:Emptysora|Emptysora]] shared. Safer, and it still sortable, we just need to put the first line every time, but that's not an issue IMO.
 
:::On a side note, I don't think it's necessary to create specific lists like "List of Bold Artifact" and co for numerous reasons:
 
:::# More lists/pages means more possibility of not being consistent across the wiki. We're already have sometimes issues with the "Lists of" and the Omnibus not being consistent (or even sometimes the article), no need to add more.
 
:::# More lists/pages means its, IMO, less user-friendly. Let's be honest, not many people are fluent with the wiki and may create mistakes.
 
:::# I don't think it's necessary to have specific lists like "by name", "by tape", when the table is sortable and when you have at the top of the page, links to every letter, and at the bottom left a magnificent {{tlx|top}} template to jump back to it. If you really search something specific, there is nothing a CTRL-F can't do I think.
 
:::Still thanks for the feedback! Let's keep the idea coming! --[[User:WardPhoenix|WardPhoenix]] ([[User talk:WardPhoenix|talk]]) 19:00, 25 November 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
:::: I happily drop my suggestion then! The header sections are the best approach. I'll get over the fact that I can't sort every bold item in the list  to the top. 😅
 
 
 
:::: It's worth noting, though, that for most users there's no ctrl + f searching for text in a page. Most people just use the in-app browser, which is super limited and along the many things it can't do is search within a page.
 
 
 
:::: Also... maybe it's just me being an old crank, but I strongly resist things that turn the Godwiki into a glorified crossword solver. So, thinking about that... perhaps it's actually '''''great''''' if the big lists are no longer sortable for bold/strong etc 😈 -- [[User:Djonni|Djonni]] ([[User talk:Djonni|talk]]) 19:20, 25 November 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
{{outdent|:::::}}
 
Sorry, was going to respond sooner, but then I found myself in hel—I mean, updating my private wiki.
 
 
 
''Anyway,'' I agree, the Wiki isn’t a crossword solver. Anything we can do to prevent that is welcome in my opinion. I use the “Open in Safari” option when clicking the export/share button to access Safari’s “Find In Page” feature on that export/share menu. The find feature sucks though. It only searches from word boundaries at the start of words eg: searching for “onster” will not match “monster”. No way to change it.
 
 
 
The multi article list thing would work, if it wasn’t for the fact the items on our lists change more than daily. Ie: a gen IV national dex list will ''always'' have the same 493 entries on it. Ours, well... we have hundreds of items, and the exact number keeps growing. Asking someone to edit five plus articles at a time consistently is a pretty tall order.
 
 
 
The reason I suggested that was because searching for bold, activatable, etc. artifacts is annoying on mobile.
 
 
 
My vote goes for the <code>== Headers ==</code> approach. Like on the other wiki.
 
 
 
— [[User:Emptysora|Emptysora]] ([[User talk:Emptysora|talk]]) 23:39, 25 November 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
:Changed the [[List of Artifacts]], feel free to check for errors and possible improvement! --[[User:WardPhoenix|WardPhoenix]] ([[User talk:WardPhoenix|talk]]) 10:50, 26 November 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
::Awesome {{u|WardPhoenix}}, absolutely fantastic change to the page. I made a, erm, {{tqi|possible improvement}} or two, emphasis on ''possible''.
 
 
 
::Two minor changes, I've made every section table collapsible, and made the navigation links point to the new headers.
 
 
 
::One fairly significant change: I've added an experimental index down the right-hand side of the page. Now, on desktop it seems to work fine for me. But on my mobile device, the list gets down as far as ''U'' before being cut off. So, we can either scrap it (but I feel it's quite useful?) or perhaps change it to be two columns wide instead, and take up a little more screen real estate. Any thoughts? (If your thoughts are "that's a terrible idea" I won't take it personally at all.) -- [[User:Djonni|Djonni]] ([[User talk:Djonni|talk]]) 11:24, 27 November 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
:::So that we can compare the options, I updated it into a two-column format. The page's [https://wiki.godvillegame.com/index.php?title=List_of_Artifacts&oldid=111837 current version] has two columns, and the [https://wiki.godvillegame.com/index.php?title=List_of_Artifacts&oldid=111832 previous version] has one, you can try both out.
 
 
 
:::On my mobile device's screen, the two column fits better, but obscures just enough of the right hand side of the screen to be a ''little bit'' annoying. -- [[User:Djonni|Djonni]] ([[User talk:Djonni|talk]]) 11:45, 27 November 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
:::: Thanks for placing the link to the headers, it's way better! I dunno if the collaspable is useful, but well, if some want it, it's there.
 
:::: As for the Index, I REALLY like that idea, but I think it may need tweaks. First, on my mobile I can't have access of the last row (! and ↑) because it's hidden behind the zoom options (but that may be only me). Secondly, as you pointed out, it's eating on the right side. Maybe we can change the value of the table to have a total of, let's say, 90%, instead of 100% so the tables and the index wouldn't interfere?
 
:::: As for the one or two-column format, for me it's a no brainer. Two column. One column doesn't display entirely on phone. --[[User:WardPhoenix|WardPhoenix]] ([[User talk:WardPhoenix|talk]]) 15:25, 27 November 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
::::: Okay, assuming we're sticking with the two columns then! :) I narrowed the tables to 95%, which is about right on my device, but obviously that can be tweaked. How is that width for you? -- [[User:Djonni|Djonni]] ([[User talk:Djonni|talk]]) 16:07, 27 November 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
{{outdent|:::::}} Looks fine on my side, that index is defintely one of the greatest idea you had. The index do cut a little on the table, but it doesn't cut any character. If we keep the lateral index, do you think it's necessary to keep the main one (and thus linking the ↑ to the type maybe?)
 
Well, this needs even more feedback. --[[User:WardPhoenix|WardPhoenix]] ([[User talk:WardPhoenix|talk]]) 17:08, 27 November 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
: So, the list-article have been updated with the index (not the finger) [[Djonni]] provided and with headers, making it easier to edit. --[[User:WardPhoenix|WardPhoenix]] ([[User talk:WardPhoenix|talk]]) 14:51, 2 December 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
== Justifying the new list pages ==
 
 
 
I have some... concerns, I guess, about the new list pages created recently: List of Diary Phrases, List of Earthly News, and List of Greetings. (I'm going to explicitly invite the creator of the new pages, {{u|Uni34}}, to join this conversation (Hi! 👋), and I ''really'' want to start by saying that I don't think {{u|Uni34}} has done anything wrong! She saw a gap in the wiki, she was [[wikipedia:WP:BOLD|'''bold''']], and she created the pages she felt were missing. That's ''good''. 😊 But as per paragraph three of the Be Bold page, sometimes we all end up doing things that need further discussion. 😊)
 
 
 
I refer to the last paragraph of the [[Godwiki Guidebook]], which I think sums it up:
 
 
 
{{tqb|Refrain from making lists of items instead of articles. Having just a list of game objects will only reduce the fun of discovering them in the game. Having an interesting (and not necessarily real or serious) article about the game object will be much better.}}
 
 
 
Now, obviously, we ''do'' have lists of game items that have always formed the backbone of the wiki, and not just the obvious ones. We have, of course, lists of artifacts, monsters, boss monsters, equipment, skills, towns, achievements, quests, and the omnibus list, and there are other lower profile lists in navboxes and hidden all over the place. Each list has its uses to players, obviously some more useful than others. And all except the omnibus do something ''very'' important for the Godwiki &mdash; they are a linked index of the pages that do and don't exist for their respective game items, allowing world-building Godwiki content written by players to be created and found.
 
 
 
My main problem with the three new lists is that, as far as I can see, they achieve neither of the things that justify making a list (be useful to players; be an index for Godwiki content), and they duplicate content from the diary/game that I, for one, would really rather ''not'' have popping up in search results, for exactly the reason above &mdash; it spoils part of the fun of the game. I can't really think of a use for those lists, and nobody's going to be writing Godwiki articles about every Diary entry, piece of Earthly News, or Greeting in the game.
 
 
 
I also think that the Diary and Earthly News lists will be ''extremely'' challenging to meaningfully maintain. We already have major problems with the accuracy of the list of quests, every single little correction submitted by any of the ~15k players would make those lists less and less accurate over time.
 
 
 
But, of course, I might not be seeing a good reason to keep some or all of them. If there ''are'' good reasons to keep them, then we need to explain that reason on each of the lists, because honestly, '''I suspect the Devs will delete the pages when they see them.'''
 
 
 
So, everyone's input is useful here. Are there reasons for keeping any/some/all of the new lists? How are they useful to players? -- [[User:Djonni|Djonni]] ([[User talk:Djonni|talk]]) 12:05, 4 December 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
: Agreeing with everything said but one thing. It could be useful for ideaboxer, especially those who try to find their approved idea in the game. But, is it enough to make those lists worth? I don’t know. -- [[User:WardPhoenix|WardPhoenix]] ([[User talk:WardPhoenix|talk]]) 12:31, 4 December 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
:: The Ideabox is the main reason I created these lists. But it's not the only reason. And the fact that the lists may be spoilers is not sufficient reason to delete them. A lot of content on GodWiki is spoilers. I'm sure there are a lot of users who don't want to see a [[list of quests]], for example. But do we delete it? No, because some people want it. It's the same here. The only difference, I guess, is that quests have articles and diary phrases/greetings/earthly news don't. But come to think of it, most quests don't have articles and I can see the items in the new lists having articles too. --[[User:Uni34|Uni34]] ([[User talk:Uni34|talk]]) 08:49, 7 December 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
{{outdent|::}} Well... Looks like the devs passed by and decided otherwise, nothing we can do about it. Though a warning or an explanation for the deletion would have be kind of nice we got neither but only a blunt deletion log, which is an answer in a way i guess. --[[User:WardPhoenix|WardPhoenix]] ([[User talk:WardPhoenix|talk]]) 14:25, 9 December 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
== The Monstrous Recapitalisation of 2019 ==
 
 
 
So, the way the game handles capitalisation after a hyphen in a monster name has changed recently. The Ideabox has always automatically capitalised monster ideas, but it didn't historically treat a hyphen as a word break, and it does now... Mostly. A word after a hyphen will be capitalised if it is at least 3 (or maybe it's 4) characters long. This is an attempt to make sure that articles and short prepositions in hyphenated words are not capitalised, according to traditional title caps rules. And, of course, ER editors can manually change capitalisation in cases where that simple rule hasn't quite got something right, as they always could.
 
 
 
At the same time, existing monster names in the game have been recapitalised to match normal English typography. The recapitalisation seems to follow these rough rules:
 
 
 
# Where something after a hyphen was already capitalised, it has stayed that way (the only changes are to previously lowercase letters immediately after a hyphen)
 
# Articles and prepositions after a hyphen remain lowercase, as they would in a title (e.g. [[Monster-in-Law]]), but not entirely consistently (see point 1, e.g. [[Missing-In-Action Figure]])
 
# Word fragments, e.g. [[Arrgh-onaut]], remain uncapitalised, but not entirely consistently (see point 1, e.g. [[Flame-Ingo]])
 
# Otherwise, words after a hyphen have been capitalised pretty consistently.
 
 
 
This post here is essentially to signal that there will be some monster pages that need to be moved to their new capitalisation, and edits being made to [[List of Monsters]] as well as monster articles as required. I'm going to do a lot of this, but even taking advantage of some extra external resources I probably won't catch everything, and there's a chance I might move or correct things to a ''wrong'' capitalisation.
 
 
 
'''If you see a hyphenated monster name in the game,''' and that monster is capitalised differently on the Godwiki, then we need to fix it! It can be a bit of work to make those changes, though, so if you spot something wrong but don't have the opportunity (or perhaps knowledge) to do it yourself, please leave a note about it (right here, or on the monster article's talk page if that's easier) and another editor should get the changes done ''mañana''.
 
 
 
That said... if you ''think'' you don't have the skills you're probably wrong. '''Be Bold''', try to do it yourself, and if someone can see you're struggling or not getting it right they'll clean up after you. No muss, no fuss, no worries. It's really not ''more'' work for an experienced editor to fix a mistake someone else makes, than for that editor to do the work in the first place, so you're never creating more work for someone else!
 
 
 
A brief checklist for myself and others:
 
* If the monster has an article:
 
** The article must be moved to the correct name. (Looking at original article, the "More" menu in the top right has the "Move" action. <span style="font-size:small;">''Is this also true on mobile? Can't recall and can't currently check.''</span>)
 
** Text in article body corrected as needed. {{tlc|Monster}} infobox ''should'' be fine, as it uses the {{tlc|PAGENAME}} [[mediawikiwiki:Help:Magic words|magic word]] by default, but double-check for {{para|title}} parameters or unusual description text.
 
* [[List of Monsters]] to be updated.
 
* Check for a relevant [[:Category:Navigational Boxes|navbox]] and update. (A text search will ''only'' include the main namespace by default, but hitting 'Everything' or 'Advanced' in the results will allow searching of templates.)
 
* If time permits, search for text in pages with the old capitalisation. Put quotes <code>"..."</code> around the name to get the right results. (Two birds with one stone: correcting the capitalisation and an opportunity to increase interlinking if the monster has an article.)
 
* If time permits (lowest priority though, I think), update [[Omnibus List]]. The main users of the Omnibus are crossword solvers, to whom capitalisation is irrelevant.
 
 
 
(Please feel free to add to or alter that checklist if I've missed something.)
 
 
 
Obviously, this is a fairly low priority and on-going project, so it'll take a while and a bit of work to get done together. :) -- [[User:Djonni|Djonni]] ([[User talk:Djonni|talk]]) 08:44, 12 September 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
== Call for feedback on new {{tl|Usergod}} template ==
 
{{anchor|Call for feedback on new Usergod template}}{{m|feed}}
 
 
 
Hello all!
 
 
 
This is an official call for anyone interested to test and give feedback on the draft of the new {{tlx|Usergod}} template. If you want to get stuck in straight away, you can leap to the fully documented draft at [[User:Djonni/Template sandbox]].
 
 
 
To begin testing the new template straight away, if you already have the Usergod template on your page you can simply replace <code><nowiki>{{Usergod</nowiki></code> with <code><nowiki>{{User:Djonni/Template sandbox</nowiki></code> to see how it will look with the new template.
 
 
 
In short, the {{tl|Usergod}} and {{tl|Usergoddess}} templates haven't been updated since 2013, and they ''really'' need it. We have modernised and made pretty all of the {{tlc|Monster}}, {{tlc|Artifact}}, {{tlc|Equipment}}, etc. infobox templates, and with the lessons we've learned there, it's time to get to work on the big ones: {{tl|Usergod}}, {{tl|Hero}}, and {{tl|Guild}}. This is the first of those to hit the bench.
 
 
 
In the redesign I have tried to keep to several principles:
 
 
 
* '''Don't mess up existing pages.''' The Usergod template is currently used on [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Usergod|203 Godwiki pages]]. Many of those pages have made very specific choices about colours, styles, backgrounds, etc. This is why, by default, the new Usergod template will be transparent: the old template has been transparent for over 8 years, and it should be entirely up to you, the template user, how your Usergod infobox looks. Which leads to:
 
* '''Allow for a large amount of customisation, as simply as possible.''' I have investigated quite deeply (I think) how those existing 203 users of the template have used it, and tried to look at what they wanted but couldn't get from the existing template. The replacement has a large and flexible suite of colouring, styling, and creative options there to use, all of which are completely optional. It can be as elaborate and detailed as you like, or just a quick, simple summary of your most interesting and important features. Whatever you want.
 
* '''Try not to force any decisions onto you, including gender norms.''' Don't want to be called either God ''or'' Goddess? No problem, set {{para|title|The Great and Powerful}}, or <code>=The Divine</code>, or <code>=Furmeister General</code>, or anything you want. Don't want your minion to be called Hero or Heroine? Great, {{para|herolabel|Champion}}, or <code>=Minion</code>, or <code>=Kōhai</code>, or whatever you like. ''If you see a way to make the template more customisable, please say so, and if I can realistically do so, I shall.''
 
* '''Expect the unexpected.''' I have not tried to guess everything you'll want to do with the template. Instead, I've tried to make the template capable of doing anything you might want. There are options to create fully customised sections of the infobox, which you could use to: embed your hero(ine)'s details into it; prominently feature forum roleplaying character sheets; proudly display your pets, ark, achievements, skills, pet peeves, anything. People really ''tried'' to get creative with the old Usergod template, and it just didn't allow them to. So, this one does.
 
 
 
As implied above, updating {{tl|Usergod}} is phase one; after the new Usergod is finalised and put in place, phase two will be {{tl|Hero}}. Depending on the feedback received, my observations of how the new templates are used (or not used), and the level of interest, phase two may also involve designing some additional related templates: {{tlc|Pet}}, {{tlc|Lab boss}}, {{tlc|Ark}}. Then finally, after a ''lot'' of feedback and testing, the {{tl|Guild}} template will be updated. This will be the most difficult and controvertial, as it's the most heavily used template on the Godwiki (at this moment, there are ''exactly'' 500 pages using the Guild template), and for many people, their guild page is the only thing they interact with on Godwiki.
 
 
 
Feedback, discussion, and questions about the new template can be given right here, or at [[User talk:Djonni/Template sandbox]]. You'll also find some discussion and feedback from early testers at [[User talk:Djonni]] and [[User talk:WardPhoenix/Sandbox]] if you're interested.
 
 
 
I'm looking forward to hearing from folks about everything that's wrong with the new Usergod template, so that we can make it better together! -- [[User:Djonni|Djonni]] ([[User talk:Djonni|talk]]) 08:43, 3 November 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
:'''Update:''' Just a quick note about a couple of additions made recently to the test template, and about feedback I'm getting publicly and privately!
 
 
 
:Firstly, I noticed that some user pages have chosen to [https://wiki.godvillegame.com/index.php?search=pronouns&title=Special%3ASearch&fulltext=1  specify pronouns,] and some people have been modifying or adapting existing infoboxes to do so. So the Usergod test template now supports a {{para|pronoun}} parameter, which, if specified, will appear below the row where gender appears (if specified). As with all parameters on the new template, it's optional. I've included the parameter in the documentation example, set to the intentionally slightly silly and non-specific {{para|pronouns|Hey/Oi}}. If anyone wants to suggest a more suitable example, please do.
 
 
 
:On a personal note, I'm a bit embarrassed to admit that, as a cis-gendered person who has never in my life needed to specify my pronouns, it took me a long time to realise that for a number of our users that could be important. If anyone can point out other simple things I've missed which may increase the inclusivity and accessibility of the Godwiki/{{tlf|Usergod}}, those things are extremely important to me and I'm always open to listening and acting. I have always tried and will keep trying to put inclusivity and accessibility to the front of all the work I do here.
 
 
 
:Secondly, after feedback and discussion with some testers (thanks everyone!), I've added the Guild pantheons for those who want to show them, in the spirit of "''let people do what they want to with the template''". The docs have been updated to reflect the changes, and they are exactly what you would expect them to be: {{para|unity}}, {{para|popularity}}, {{para|duelery}} and {{para|adventure}}. As with the other pantheon groups, {{para|pantheonsubheaders|<var>yes</var>/<var>no</var>}} will explicitly enable or disable the group subheader.
 
 
 
:Finally, a lot of the feedback (more thanks to everyone!) has pointed out that the template could be a little overwhelming or intimidating for new users. I completely agree. What I'd like to do, just before launching the new template, is restructure the documentation so that there's a ''very simple'' section at the top with only the basic options, and perhaps a couple of suggested colour options, and then additional sections below with the rest. Hopefully it's obvious that the way the documentation is set up now is just for testing, and testers. A complete rewrite of the docs will be, I suspect, the biggest job left before launching the new template. {{m|inprogress}}
 
 
 
:On which last point, I would love to get the template in place before December so that it's out of the way for the run-up to JanuWiki, which is rapidly sneaking up on us! The JanuWiki prep will become my no. 1 Godwiki priority for December! 😄
 
 
 
:Thanks again to everyone who's been testing the new template. Even if you haven't given me any direct feedback, just seeing what people are (and aren't) doing with it, how they're using it, and what they're finding difficult or confusing about it is really helping. So please, keep playing with it, breaking it, and pushing its limits! -- [[User:Djonni|Djonni]] ([[User talk:Djonni|talk]]) 08:07, 21 November 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
::A few small changes I made today to the test template.
 
 
 
:: While working on other infoboxes recently, I realised that none of them have a full colon <code>:</code> at the end of the labels. Which, y'know, makes sense, and should have been obvious to me. So, to keep in style with the existing infoboxes, I've taken the colons off the labels throughout the infobox.
 
 
 
:: I've also removed the fairly useless linking of the Pantheon names to the Pantheon pages (I doubt anyone's really going to discover a Pantheon they didn't know about from a User page). This is to allow for better colour styling: since link colours cannot be changed, the more links there are, the harder it is to style colours.
 
 
 
:: And so, I've also added two new parameters, {{para|guildlink|<var>no</var>}} And {{para|herolink|<var>no</var>}}. If set, the guild and hero names won't be made into links. This allows people to set any values they like without a link to a dead page, as well as allowing those who want to colour their text to do so.
 
 
 
:: For anyone interested, {{U|Emptysora}} suggested a way to have both coloured text and a link, which you can find at [[User talk:Djonni/Template sandbox#A bit of a hack for the link colors|User talk:Djonni/Template sandbox &sect; A bit of a hack for the link colors]].
 
 
 
::As the end of the month approaches, I'm getting closer to releasing the template into the wild. So please be sure to make any last minute suggestions or complaints ASAP! I'm going to expand the supported length of the custom section for 40 rows to... Well, more rows, but aside from that I'm pretty great to go.
 
 
 
:: My biggest hesitation right now is the width issue on very narrow screens, as reported by {{God|Holy Spirit of Hell}} in the forum. It really bothers me, I'm ''sure'' it's solvable somehow... But it's always the image widths not being dynamic that ends up as the breaking problem. {{Para|upright}} unfortunately doesn't help here. -- [[User:Djonni|Djonni]] ([[User talk:Djonni|talk]]) 11:44, 25 November 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
::: Alright, I've been procrastinating on this for too long now. Last chance to voice concerns, otherwise I'm going to go ahead and launch the new template tomorrow or the next day
 
 
 
::: The narrow-screen issue can't be solved without access to site CSS, which is something discussed with and rejected by the Devs many times in the past. Perhaps we'll have a proper Godwiki player admin at some point in the future — until then, we can't fix that, I'm afraid. -- [[User:Djonni|Djonni]] ([[User talk:Djonni|talk]]) 17:08, 11 December 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
:::: I have not been shy in experimenting with it and voicing ideas and criticism. Overall it is a very good improvement and I approve. As more people use it, we will get more feedback going forward and can't make improvements until then. I am anxious for you to move on to hero's and guilds. ;) Thank you --[[User:Sand Devil|Sand Devil]] ([[User talk:Sand Devil|talk]]) 18:08, 11 December 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
::::: Well, the new template is now live, with reworked documentation to try to give a beginner an easy start.
 
 
 
::::: Not just yet, but soon I will be using the [[User:Djonni/Template sandbox]] page for the next project. If you've tested the template, firstly, thank you very much. Many of you gave me really helpful suggestions, feedback, advice, requests, criticism, and reports of unexpected behaviour. Even if you didn't actively give me feedback, by watching what people were doing with the template I learned a lot about what it ''should'' be doing.
 
 
 
::::: Please point all your {{tl|User:Djonni/Template sandbox}}es to now use {{tl|Usergod}}. In a few days I'll leave talk messages for anyone who's still using the old sandbox page. Thanks again everyone, and hopefully the general Godwiki populace likes the change to the new template. It can still be undone if necessary, of course. -- [[User:Djonni|Djonni]] ([[User talk:Djonni|talk]]) 20:15, 12 December 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
== Articles about content that's no longer in the game ==
 
 
 
So, we've started finding more and more articles that are about content (artifacts, monsters, equipment, quests, skills, pantheons...) that is no longer in the game for various reasons. I think it's time we worked out what we do with these things.
 
 
 
Firstly, I think that deleting a contributor's creativity and work on the Godwiki because the item's gone is a shame. My vote is that articles are preserved, with a hatnote, and possibly categorised (perhaps <code>Category:Articles about things that are no longer in the game</code>).
 
 
 
However, I would equally argue that deleted items should be removed from the relevent 'List of...', and the Omnibus. If they aren't in the game any more, then they shouldn't really be there, I think.
 
 
 
A hatnote could look something like this:
 
 
 
{|style="clear: both; width: 100%; border-color:{{{outerbordercolor|#AAB}}} {{{outerbordercolor|#AAB}}} {{{outerbordercolor|#AAB}}} {{{bordercolor|#999}}}; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 10px; padding: 4px; margin: 1px auto {{{interval|0.2rem}}} auto; vertical-align: middle; background-color: {{{bgcolor|#fefefe}}}; text-align: left;{{{style|}}}"
 
|width="1%" height="{{{height|auto}}}" style="padding-right:8px; vertical-align: {{{image-align|middle}}}" | <span style="font-size: 300%;">👻<span>
 
|style="vertical-align: middle"|<p style="color: #000000; background: none; overflow: hidden; page-break-after: avoid; font-size: 1.17em; font-weight: bold; line-height: 1.6; margin-top: 0.1em; margin-bottom: 0; padding-top: 0; padding-bottom: 0;">This article is about something which is no longer in the game</p>This subject of this article was once a part of Godville, but is no longer. It is kept here for its historical or creative value. Please do not delete this note or the article's content without discussing it on the {{fake link|talk page}} first, however, creative contributions and additional accurate details are still welcome.
 
|}
 
 
 
No styles applied to that example, of course, we can decide on that if we like the general idea. Whaddaya think? -- [[User:Djonni|Djonni]] ([[User talk:Djonni|talk]]) 12:57, 25 November 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
: I definitely like that. I feel bad about going through and effectively playing god with “what gets to stay, and what gets deleted.” I mean, it’s one thing if the creator of something blanks a page (which is somehow systematically done), but, if it’s just left there, I don’t want to just get rid of it. A lot of guilds put a lot of effort into their pages. It’s a shame to permanently delete them. — [[User:Emptysora|Emptysora]] ([[User talk:Emptysora|talk]]) 13:20, 25 November 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
:: For guilds in particular we need to tweak the message. After all, a guild with the same name that used to exist but now doesn’t, could come into existence again. We shouldn’t bar them from editing their own guild page because someone else had a guild with the same name.
 
 
 
:: Things removed from the game should unquestionably be removed from lists whose sole purpose is detailing things existing in the game. It’s just clutter at that point. However, I think we should add another list page “List of content removed from the game” with headers for Monsters, Equipment, Pantheons, etc.. At least that way, ''something'' links to those articles and they won’t just be dead. We could actually use THAT talk page to discuss whether to move items there. — [[User:Emptysora|Emptysora]] ([[User talk:Emptysora|talk]]) 13:27, 25 November 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
::: Well, just to clarify, we already have guilds covered with {{tlx|Delete guild}}. Inactive deities and their {{heroes and heroines}} can remain here until the day they return to the game or the sun explodes, whichever comes first.<sup>1</sup> I'm not talking about user (god, hero, guild) pages here, I'm talking about objects or mechanics from the game that have been removed.
 
 
 
::: Note <sup>1</sup>: There is one important exception to this. If a god no longer ''exists'' in Godville at all, they have requested that their account and all of its data be deleted under GDRP. If we stumble upon a User page with no corresponding User, an ''Ideabox -> Other'' should be submitted to alert the Devs, and they can decide what should be done for GDRP compliance. -- [[User:Djonni|Djonni]] ([[User talk:Djonni|talk]]) 14:06, 25 November 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
{{outdent|:::}} I suggest {{tlx|Outdated}} as a name for the template. Should we use the {{tlx|Sign}} template as a base or do we start from the hatnote [[Djonni]] made just above? --[[User:WardPhoenix|WardPhoenix]] ([[User talk:WardPhoenix|talk]]) 16:45, 15 December 2019 (UTC)
 
: Oh well, I managed to allow {{tlx|Sign}} to use emoji instead of a picture when we want it.... So that new template will probably end up as another Sign child I guess 😅 -- [[User:WardPhoenix|WardPhoenix]] ([[User talk:WardPhoenix|talk]]) 23:47, 17 December 2019 (UTC)
 
:: {{tlx|Historical}}, changed my mind about the name 😅 --[[User:WardPhoenix|WardPhoenix]] ([[User talk:WardPhoenix|talk]]) 13:57, 18 December 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
== Hero namespace ==
 
 
 
I noticed that this wiki has a Hero namespace. Why doesn't anyone use it, and is it okay to move hero pages to it? --[[User:Uni34|Uni34]] ([[User talk:Uni34|talk]]) 08:23, 21 December 2019 (UTC)
 
:P.S. What would be the implications of using the Hero namespace? Are subpages allowed, for example? Is the editting and creation of hero pages limited to the hero's god, similar to god pages? --[[User:Uni34|Uni34]] ([[User talk:Uni34|talk]]) 08:28, 21 December 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
:: Well, {{tqi|is it okay to move hero pages to it?}} is a hard no. Absolutely don't mess with other people's God, Hero, or Guild pages without permission, except for the simplest of maintenance (e.g., adding <code>[<nowiki />[Category:Guilds]]</code> to new guild pages; the occasional courtesy fix to inactive players' pages if we change the parameters of a template they use, but even that's a bit iffy). So, no moving hero pages. We use Talk pages to give friendly, helpful advice as needed, and no more.
 
 
 
:: As for the Hero namespace, well. As you can [https://wiki.godvillegame.com/index.php?title=Special%3APrefixIndex&prefix=&namespace=100 see,] it has literally ''never'' been used. There's no need for it whatsoever. The reason we have it is, like so many of the Godwiki's weird stuff, because of the idiosyncrasy of the Godwiki's first admin, who is now inactive. But for the first half decade or so of the Godwiki, it was run by someone who was very unfriendly and unhelpful, made a bunch of weird decisions (redirecting blanked and unneeded pages to the Main Page? Yep, that was his rule), made the Godwiki a difficult and unpleasant place to be, and made the majority of our community's best people feel ''really'' negative about the Godwiki. It'll still be years before we finish undoing the weirdness, and the harm.
 
 
 
:: As far as I know, nobody has any permission to create or edit in the Hero namespace. Try going to [[Hero:Dora34]] or [[Hero:Uni34]] and see, I know I can't create [[Hero:Djonniboy]] or [[Hero:Djonni]]. It's just one more annoying quirk we've inherited from bygone days. I suspect that the idea was that one could create and edit the page for one's own hero, but when he realised that was not technically possible (since the Godwiki has no means whatsoever of getting metadata from Godville beyond your login token), he just abandoned the category instead of cleaning up afterhimself and removing it. So, we just have to carry on like it's not there. -- [[User:Djonni|Djonni]] ([[User talk:Djonni|talk]]) 08:56, 21 December 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
== 2020 ==
 
 
 
== JanuWiki 2020 Ideas and Planning ==
 
 
 
Heya once again! I did a bit of poking around in the JanuWiki 2019 page, and couldn't find any plans for what the next theme is gonna be. It never hurts to start planning early, so I kinda decided to start gathering a few ideas. After looking around the internet for some potential New Year themes, I have three potential suggestions:
 
# A glasses/vision-related theme. It's going to be 2020 - it shall be the year of perfect vision and clarity!
 
# Something related to time. Similar reason as the first one (mostly because I already anticipate all of the 'hindsight is 20/20' puns that the year will bring), but there's also the whole 'marking of another year going by'. Sounds a bit on the melodramatic side, though.
 
# Chinese zodiac time! Now, there isn't exactly a whole lot of potential rodent-themed articles on here (2020 is the year of the Rat, after all), but I did some cross-referencing! Apparently there are Chinese elemental years too, and next year's element is going to be Metal. So, Metal/Rat articles?
 
I know it's really early, but I really want to help the next JanuWiki be like the first one (cuz seriously, the sheer number of content was really amazing + fun to read)! What do you guys think? --[[User:Arcanedreamer|Arcanedreamer]] ([[User talk:Arcanedreamer|talk]]) 02:47, 22 September 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
: [[User:Arcanedreamer|Arcanedreamer]], I actually think that those are pretty great ideas! I for one have try to give JanuWiki 2020 any serious thought, but using a 20/20 theme is a brilliant thought!
 
 
 
: One (really great) thing that happened with JanuWiki 2019 is that as the event rolled on we had to expand and extend it to new themes, bring more ideas into the event, and keep offering don't exciting new ideas for people who just didn't get inputted enough by the first tranche of suggestions. So having a handful of interesting, related-ish, but quite diverse options is really valuable. I think working with the 20/20 concepts you've suggested first (vision, hindsight, foresight, time) is an excellent focal point (pun intended), with metal and rodent articles tucked up our sleeves for when/if we need to grow the theme. For 2019, we started all about beer, and from brainstorming and adapting we added bosses, lions, tigers, and bears over the month. So we've seen that a diverse and interesting collection of ideas can really help catch the interest of folks who might only like one part of it.
 
 
 
: Later today I'll do some surveying to see what missing or stubbed articles will be captured by these themes, and that will give us a more concrete notion of how they would look for an event! -- [[User:Djonni|Djonni]] ([[User talk:Djonni|talk]]) 08:38, 22 September 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
::Themes' Ideas looks good. I wonder if doing a survey on the forums could be usefull to see if people would be willing to participate in the event, and what they think could be improved compared to previous ones. --[[User:WardPhoenix|WardPhoenix]] ([[User talk:WardPhoenix|talk]]) 18:33, 22 September 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
::: I'm actually really happy you guys like my ideas! So, thing is, I already did [[User:Arcanedreamer#Art_Stuff|a bit of artwork]] in anticipation of JanuWiki 2020. I'm perfectly fine with doing a couple more items in order to make the event look even better, but I'd like to know ahead of time if that's okay. And if so, maybe let me know ASAP if there's any specific items you guys would want so that I don't have to do a rush job at the last minute? --[[User:Arcanedreamer|Arcanedreamer]] ([[User talk:Arcanedreamer|talk]]) 19:49, 22 September 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
:::: So, I got around to that thing I said I would do yesterday... I've started a survey of possible articles for the two theme groups ('''20/20''' and '''Metal Rat''') at [[Djonni/Shared sandbox]] (note that I've intentionally kept that out of my <code>User:</code> area so that everybody can tinker with, improve or extend it). I was pretty inclusive about what I captured for the 20/20 theme, and only just started on the Metal Rat articles (I've saved it in progress, I'll carry on and on anon. 🎵🎶''Alalalalalonglonglilonglonglong, sing it''🎶🎵
 
 
 
:::: I definitely agree [[User:WardPhoenix|WardPhoenix]], we should take this to the forums, but before w're ready to do that we should have a very clear idea of what the theme ideas we're presenting are, I think, so that folks there have some concrete, fully though out and fleshed out things to discuss and contribute to. Let's discuss and refine the articles and concepts a little more together here first!
 
 
 
:::: And for readers who are following this but have not yet joined the conversation &mdash; '''''please''''' share your thoughts, good, bad, or whatever they may be!
 
 
 
:::: [[User:Arcanedreamer|Arcanedreamer]], whoa, I'm pretty impressed by your artwork there! Personally I think that's a great piece of decoration for the main page announcement, and will probably be useful in places on the main event page too, fantastic work! Something that I discovered doing the theme survey &mdash; '''Did You Know''' that there's actually a [[Steel Rat]] monster in Godville? I feel like the Steel Rat would make an excellent mascot for JanuWiki 2020, regardless of how the theming conversation goes, what do you guys think? Your geometric artwork there is excellent, [[User:Arcanedreamer|Arcanedreamer]], I suspect a Steel Rat is much harder. Do you think it's within your scope? There will probably be some reuse-permitted images we could use, so it's entirely up to you! :) -- [[User:Djonni|Djonni]] ([[User talk:Djonni|talk]]) 14:45, 23 September 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
::::: [[User:Djonni|Djonni]], I hear a mild challenge in there. I shall accept and prove your skepticism wrong! In all seriousness, though, it sounds like a fun way to push at my pixel art boundaries (I've been doing nothing but inanimate objects so far, ehehe....)! Also, two things - should I go ahead and place whatever JanuWiki 2020 art I end up creating in the sandbox? And are there any other art requests? --[[User:Arcanedreamer|Arcanedreamer]] ([[User talk:Arcanedreamer|talk]]) 15:07, 23 September 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
It looks like from [[Djonni/Shared sandbox]] that there is already quite the amount of articles found within both them (good work finding them by the way). So now, what? Do we use the forum to see if there is people interested in a potential event before throwing anything and thinking of the form JanuWiki 2020 could take? --[[User:WardPhoenix|WardPhoenix]] ([[User talk:WardPhoenix|talk]]) 13:58, 25 September 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
:Sorry guys, been a busy week at work! [[User:Arcanedreamer|Arcanedreamer]], your [[:File:SteelRat.png|Steel Rat]] is great! I'm very impressed! :D
 
 
 
:Yeah, [[User:WardPhoenix|WardPhoenix]], if you guys are happy with the lists at [[Djonni/Shared sandbox]] then we should probably take it to the forum. I'll create a dedicated talk topic for JanuWiki 2020 ideas and planning, so that folks don't feel like they need to wade through months of discussion above to get up to speed. -- [[User:Djonni|Djonni]] ([[User talk:Djonni|talk]]) 15:48, 27 September 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
::Well, I just posted an ''offensively'' long message on the forums ({{cite forum|308|1274998}}) so if anyone's masochistic enough to actually read it, welcome to the conversation! 😅 -- [[User:Djonni|Djonni]] ([[User talk:Djonni|talk]]) 17:38, 27 September 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
:::Bold of you to assume that I would think reading a long forum post is a masochistic action. In all seriousness, I think you did a good job doing an early advertisement for the event! Hopefully it'll attract old and new participants alike~! --[[User:Arcanedreamer|Arcanedreamer]] ([[User talk:Arcanedreamer|talk]]) 23:47, 27 September 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
::::So, with the new [[Book of Creation]] update, should we consider a chance in focus to all things related to '''words''', '''books''', and '''writing'''? -- [[User:Djonni|Djonni]] ([[User talk:Djonni|talk]]) 16:53, 9 October 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
:::::Maybe? I mean, on one hand, I think we're fine with the themes we already have - look at how many articles that are already available! On the other hand, people tend to be a lot more hyped up for new things, so there's a pretty good chance that more people would be interested. In the end, I guess it just depends on how big you're expecting this next JanuWiki is gonna be.  --[[User:Arcanedreamer|Arcanedreamer]] ([[User talk:Arcanedreamer|talk]]) 02:33, 10 October 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
{{outdent|:::::}}I've done a rapid survey of book and word themed items at [[Djonni/Shared sandbox#Books and words]]. The main takeaway from that is that there's essentially no monsters (the most popular creator category by far) and a huuuge list of artifacts that don't offer the same variety and breadth that the other categories do.
 
 
 
It might still be nice for us to do ''something'' about books and words with the [[Book of Creation]] update, but I think making it a part of JanuWiki isn't going to create a lot of excitement.
 
 
 
And to answer that question, {{u|Arcanedreamer}}, I am anticipating that this JanuWiki will be a little smaller than the last one. But we won't know until we see for ourselves. :) -- [[User:Djonni|Djonni]] ([[User talk:Djonni|talk]]) 06:49, 10 October 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
===Decoration Questions and Art Requests===
 
Alrighty, so I noticed that the navboxes for the past GodWiki vents tend to have a neat little picture instead of a simple dot separating the different articles. I'm not entirely sure how that works - is there a way to place our own pics (I.E. some specialized JanuWiki pixel art icons) in there, or are we limited to a preset group of images? I was about to start working on a few icon designs before realizing that I didn't know if we're able to even use them. --[[User:Arcanedreamer|Arcanedreamer]] ([[User talk:Arcanedreamer|talk]]) 05:10, 28 September 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
:Well when I made {{tlx|navbox items}} I built in quite a bit of flexibility for exactly this kind of reason! :) Using the {{para|bullet}} parameter, you can set the separator between list items to anything you want. We usually use emoji characters for this, which has benefits and drawbacks, but there's no reason why we can't use an image!
 
:The image that we use in the {{tlx|god}} template for this: {{god|Arcanedreamer}} is rendered as 17x17 pixels, making it just a little taller than the line on most screens. In the wiki software used to run the GodWiki, there's no way to make the size of an image dynamic in any way, so we will have to decide on pixel dimensions to use (and the wiki doesn't have support for any vector image types either, so a small bullet-sized image won't stretch or shrink well on a lot of screens).
 
:If you think you can come up with some cool tiny bullet images for navbox use, I think that would be great! We can do a bit of experimenting and see how well it works. I'll leave choices about size up to you, but it might be wise to aim for something that's around 12x12 to 8x8, and using transparency if you don't want it to be a square block :)
 
:To test out how it looks in a navbox list, use this:
 
 
 
:<code><nowiki>{{navbox items|bullet=[[File:</nowiki><var>Filename.ext</var><nowiki>]]|List item one|List item two|List item three}}</nowiki></code>
 
 
 
:Which should give you something like this:
 
:{{navbox items|bullet=[[File:Godicon.png|12x12px]]|List item one|List item two|List item three}}
 
:If you want to play with different render sizes, you can put <code>|12x12px</code> or <code>|10x10px</code> etc in the image options like <code><nowiki>[[File:...|12x12px]]</nowiki></code>. :) -- [[User:Djonni|Djonni]] ([[User talk:Djonni|talk]]) 06:31, 28 September 2019 (UTC)
 

Latest revision as of 12:04, 14 April 2021