Talk:Main Page

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A Godwiki survey?

One of the thing I had planned at one point of SummerWiki 2019 was a poll to vote for best article. The idea was to make maybe people that didn't participate aware of the articles and make them read those and further if possibly. After all, people lile to vote anonymouse, so I though a poll would have been an idea to present the godwiki.

Soooo, I was wondering if doing an anonymous survey for the Godwiki could lure people there and maybe tell us why people aren't using it that much (or atleast not contributing much). There is thousands of actives gods and wey less active right here. And maybe with those answers we could improve the godwiki to lure more people in.

I have never done such a survey so well, if you thought it's a good idea, let's work on it together once more! -- WardPhoenix (talk) 22:58, 19 December 2019 (UTC)

Random samples of questions

  • How often do you use the Godwiki.
  • If you don't use the Godwiki tell us why
    • Too hard to use
    • Don't see why I should use it
    • etc.
  • If you use Godwiki, do you contribute often to it?
  • If you don't contribute to it tell us why.
    • Too complicated
    • Not confident in english
    • Don't care
    • etc.
  • Are you aware of events that happened and could happens on the Godwiki?
  • What do you like on the Godwiki
  • What don't you like on the Godwiki
  • What you would like to see on Godwiki?
  • What do you think could be improved on the Godwiki?
  • Were you aware there are volunteers ready to help you with Godwiki articles?
  • Were you aware that you could create your personnal page on the Godwiki ?
Are you suggesting like a Google Forms or SurveyMonkey survey be posted as an alert on the main page? Since most of my motivation for editing is to make editing as painless as possible for other people, I’m actually completely on-board with with idea.
If we do do a survey, I would suggest making the aggregate results public (eg: announcing it on the main page).
We could also not do this as a one-time thing, but a recurring thing at set intervals.
I would suggest that instead of the conditional question for not contributing, we ask the question and then provide a set of “How much do you agree with the following statements” questions after it. Eg: “The editing guidelines are easy to understand.” (And others... I just can’t think of any)
I’d ask a conditional question “Have you recently posted a request for help on Help:Requests?” And if so, do another “how much agree” set. Like: “I feel that my request was satisfactorily resolved.” (Etc) optionally asking the name of the volunteer/for more info they want to provide.
Lastly I’d suggest on the last page we add an optional field asking for god name (should they want to provide it), and an option to perhaps request that we contact them...? Similarly, an “any additional comments” field.
I know I say all of this, but, the simpler the form, the better. Likewise, the less text and shorter the form, the better. I don’t expect us to do all of what I just wrote, I’m just throwing it out there. — Emptysora (talk) 00:33, 20 December 2019 (UTC)
I'm definitely on-board for this, with a few hesitations.
Getting surveys right is hard. Phrasing questions well requires a lot of thought, so let's not rush. I think we need to keep a few things in mind:
  • Any question that requires typing will cause some people to just stop doing the survey in immediately.
  • We don't have permission to collect personal information, and shouldn't ask for it. No god name fields at all, no personal information at all, neither the respondent's nor others' (e.g., editors who helped them)
  • Information from the community belongs to the community. All answers should be anonymous, anonymized if necessary, and then the data made available to everyone, once we check through to ensure there is no personal or inappropriate information included (all text that is kept would have to comply with the game rules, not mention any individuals or guilds, etc. Any response that wasn't suitable to be made public would need to be discarded)
There's probably others but I'm still working on my first coffee.
A cautious thumbs up from this guy. -- Djonni (talk) 06:39, 20 December 2019 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── I’m going to start going to you, Djonni, when I have questions about privacy practices... heh.

But yes, everything you said is very valid. Maybe at most, on the final screen (very end) an additional comments field that’s entirely optional.

Surveys certainly are hard, my first reaction to a survey from a company I’m not entirely on board with (virtually everything aside from Mozilla/MDN surveys) is, “Ugh. No thank you,” if I am in a good mood, and, “Yeah, no. I don’t need more people tracking me and my opinions,” otherwise. The longer the survey, the more likely I am to abandon it too.

I mean, I’m not attached to the idea of collecting god/volunteer names anyway. That’s probably just useless information at best and asking for trouble at worst. I’m not even attached to having text fields. The “how much do you agree” kind of things are more than enough for the vast majority of the things we might be looking for. Using them results in less text the user has to read too, which should, if even just a little, raise the odds of someone completing the survey. The most successful surveys are short and sweet. Eg: “would you recommend us to a friend?” (Y/N), “why?” (Text), end of form. — Emptysora (talk) 07:38, 20 December 2019 (UTC)

A draft of what could be done as a survey. Updated the link for the draft, try to answer it so I can see how the results appears and give feedback about it if you don't mind! --WardPhoenix (talk) 14:45, 25 December 2019 (UTC)
Some informations from what I can see at the moments: there is possibility to keep the survey anonymous easily (just a parameter to check) and there is detailled results for each questions even, written ones. --WardPhoenix (talk) 14:20, 26 December 2019 (UTC)

I'm reopening this discussion as per my new topic below. The survey can be a great tool, but I'd like to keep in mind what the goal of the survey is. My personal goal is to make the GodWiki more inviting and encourage more users to come over from the game to the wiki. I'd like to make it easier for the less experienced wiki writers to still create in the wiki. There is a discussion here (in the removing link topic) about adding a page for submitting articles to be switched to wiki text, although it's a bit long winded and off topic. I think the survey should include a question that will let us know if this is something that would get more involvement in the wiki.

In short, I want a survey that will help us implement changes that lead to more involvement in the wiki. The survey should be really really short, like three or four questions. Longer than that and we lose many responses. All questions should have multiple choice answers. An optional comment section at the end might be a good idea. I am happy to take responsibility for creating, managing, and presenting the information from the survey. --His portliness (talk) 12:24, 1 November 2020 (UTC)

New page or category: Projects

In the interest of making things more neatly organized, I think it might be more accurate to call the Test Template page as "Projects" or "Wiki Projects" and maybe change the category to reflect it too. The reason being, that some of the pages there are not actually templates and, also, so that other non-template and maybe some personal projects can be included here. The name change also has an added benefit of shortening the link in the Main Page. Right now, Test Template is still too long and goes over the bottom border when I'm on my tiny phone. Also, Test Template gives the sense that the things in that page are all template and coding related, which not a lot of people know too much about or care to learn. Obviously, this is not the case since we have the guidebook rewrite (and maybe even future rewrite projects) there.

Another approach might be to create a new page called Projects to list ongoing projects (including templates) and link that to the Main Page instead under the Contributions section and replace the Test Templates link with a link to the Templates category. The Test Template page can be left alone to categorize test templates only and maybe a separate category can be made for sandbox pages too. Events can also be included in the Projects page. I know that wiki events (JanuWiki and SummerWiki) are listed in the Backstage category but that category is mostly for forum-related and guild-related and miscellaneous stuff.

In the Projects page, we can include project descriptions (what it's about, how to help, is a feedback to the project needed, etc.) to give people an idea of what it's about, a list of project contributors (maybe even indicate who is spearheading the project at the moment) to tell people who they can contact in case they want to help with the project but don't know or are not sure how to, and the project status (if it's done, still ongoing, or abandoned and why). It's basically a big to-do list for the whole wiki, not just of coding stuff but also general formatting and information gathering stuff. It can also function as a record of what has been done in the wiki so people know which direction we are trying to go. Just look at how neat this, this, and this are.

This should make general wiki projects easier to find and make personal projects more visible too so that someone who is looking for help in their personal project can get more eyes on it faster and so that abandoned projects can be easily picked up by someone else. Some of the individual contributor projects I've seen were abandoned because their skill level was not enough at the time and someone else ended up picking them up. I know that people have been linking their projects and compiling them in their user pages in the past, adding a note on how other people can help them. (I've been doing this too but my main reason for keeping my projects in my user page is just to keep a record of my stuff, not to actually seek help or feedback.) I know too that there's only a few of us right now doing backstage wiki stuff and we're all kinda doing our own stuff at the moment but this is not just for our benefit. This is also for the benefit of future contributors and other present contributors who might think that templates are beyond their capabilities and can't help and are clueless on how else they can help. This is in line with what Bibliophile said in the Ask for help section above:

The Main Page "Help" Section jumps straight into volunteering by writing articles or uploading graphics, which was overwhelming for me. First, I only wanted to start out small by creating my User:Bibliophile page and Talk page... I wanted to help in more of a practical "copywriting/editing" way but wasn't sure what else I could do if I didn't want write a whole article. I know the answers now, but it wasn't obvious at first. I also overthink things, so despite areas to ask for help, I couldn't decide which section was most appropriate to ask for "general" wiki help.

This should alleviate this kind of problem and give a sense of direction and purpose and indicate that yes, there are actually people working on stuff here not related to coding.

I have selfish reasons for wanting this change too.

  • I keep on forgetting to include my wiki tinkering in the Test Template page, though I'm not exactly looking for help in my stuff. It just helps that people know that they exist.
  • I might add my big list of pages that need fixing there at some point. Any page link to a user page (like personal sandboxes) can't really be edited by anyone else and I'm not interested with it now and hoping someone else might pick it up. And I need the space of the page it's currently housed in.
  • I also kinda need that link to the Templates category page in the Main Page. 😅 I keep on going there a lot for reference when I'm tinkering with stuff and it's not easy to get to that page.
  • I've had to scour through the different user pages of past and present contributors to the backstage wiki stuff (Spode, BlueStapler, Emptysora, FerdNYC, Djonni, WardPhoenix) to get an idea of what has been done, what has been abandoned and why, and what is within my skills. If a Projects page existed and everyone listed their projects with nice little descriptions in it, it would have been easier for me to know all those things and have a sense of direction with what else to do in the wiki.

I made a long post again. 😅 Thanks for reading my wall of text. -- Zoombie Zoombie's page talk with Zoombie 15:40, 23 March 2021 (UTC)

Too long didn't read. (What? I had to do it). Joke aside. I also thought about it but wasn't sure that was a great idea. But if we are two to have that idea it's probably not a bad one 😅.
Surely we could then create a short table of projects in header who would link to section in the same page explaining said project, and another with gave up project. The only problem of that would be the page will need proper maintenance to keep it's interest I guess.
Anyway, good idea, go ahead bla bla bla... I don't have neither proper time neither proper will to work on GW lately but this seems a good improvement to it for future. --WardPhoenix (talk) 16:41, 23 March 2021 (UTC)
Ha! Good one! 🤣 I'll draft something in the Main Sandbox in the next few days so everyone can chime in. I have the codes for the collapsible diary template in my own sandbox and I don't really feel like working on collapsibles until it's fixed anyway. I'm planning to house the Projects page in the Godwiki namespace since it's not related to the game, it's just for wiki development. The Template or Category namespace doesn't feel like the accurate place to house it in. There will be a separate Projects category for the sake of categorizing the projects created. I might also edit {{talkheader}} to include a link to the projects. Since, it's going to be a new thing, just putting Projects in the contributions section of the Main Page won't be enough. There needs to be some short explanatory note about it. Maybe some banner at the top or add it to {{talkheader}}.
About the maintenance of the page, I think it will be fine as long as each project's page is updated by contributors. The main Projects page is just a list anyway so it's more add the project there then forget about it until the project is completed. I'll explain more in the draft. I'll be leaving a lot of notes there anyway for copyeditors I might kidnap tap into helping me. -- Zoombie (talk to me) 06:56, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
Hi I'm Luculuqueraxa. I'm a complete beginner in coding but I'd like to help in other ways as I think this thing Zoombie is making should be quite helpful in sort of unifying work and making it more efficient.
If there was a categorized list people could refer to for projects that people are currently working on, I think it would encourage new people to sort of jump in and do small things like copyediting or corrections on things that have a concentrated interest, because 1. It would be easier to find out what people might actually want done in real time (instead of wandering through abandoned pages or choosing at random) and 2. It would be easier for people to get feedback immediately on what they've done, so you really feel like you're doing something people are actually looking at instead of screaming into the void.
A particular interest of mine is encouraging people to work on creative writing in the wiki even if they aren't confident in English. This project list would make it a lot easier to get language corrections sooner, hopefully making adding new ideas less intimidating.
The recent image section is also of particular interest to me, I was happy to see my new drawings in the list and was surprised at some of the images added that I hadn't seen yet. I look at the recent changes section from time to time but it can get voluminous and I miss a lot. I mean, I know there's the upload log too but I think it would be quite nice to have a place where you can look at all the recent thumbnails. A lot of humans are pretty visually oriented so I think it would also help draw attention to things people are working on and get people interacting more.
What can Luculuqueraxa do? I'm a copyeditor, a writer, and a drawer (the kind that does drawings). I can sort of grasp basic concepts concerning coding. Within the past few months after I finally wandered into the GW I've become rather invested in it as it has such interesting potential for creative collaboration of all kinds.
So yeah this is basically me describing what a good idea this thing is without really contributing, but if you point me in a direction maybe I can be put to use. --Luculuqueraxa (talk) 16:25, 27 March 2021 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── Thanks for the reply, Luculuqueraxa! Hopefully, things will be clearer when the Projects page is deployed. I'm planning to deploy announce it after April 1st just so I can avoid April's Fool. Wouldn't want people to think it's a joke. 😅

The Wiki News section (New Articles, New User Pages, New Images) will need a bit more work before it can be deployed. It will be best if it has a curator (or curators) who can create nice blurbs for articles and stuff since the auto-generated stuff looks terrible. (Something like this would be nice. It's linked to the homepage that looks like this.) If someone wants to take that on as a project, they are free to do so. At the very least, the list can be auto-generated easily (I can teach people how to modify the code so that it will only show a certain period of time.), which should make things easier as they wouldn't need to sift through Recent changes. -- Zoombie (talk to me) 15:07, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

I really love this idea. Please let me know how I can help implement it! I, too, have been getting a bit burned out of wiki work, I think because it feels like a monumental amount of work with very little input and help. I once did a drop of sleuthing and find that there are around 20,000+ active players on the English godville. Numbers may have changed a bit since then. The projects I work on have always been purely to get more people involved in the wiki. I know I've been out of it the past few weeks, but between this and the guidebook I hope we pick up some new faces. Nice to see you, Luculuqueraxa. Always good to hear new voices! --His portliness (talk) 11:48, 29 March 2021 (UTC)
Thanks for dropping by, His portliness! Haven't seen/heard from you for a while. I feel ya when you mentioned being burned out of wiki work. I think everyone of us here is feeling it. We'll need you to help write up the projects page for the Guidebook Facelift so we can have some starting projects to populate the tables (and because that project has actually been going on before this whole Projects page thing). These two sections would be a good start for the project page but we'll need some more instructions I think. I'll get started on deploying the actual Projects page (since I've already received some good feedback both here and via chat) and add my own list of pages that needed fixing to the projects to give everyone an example of what a project page might look like. -- Zoombie (talk to me) 13:31, 29 March 2021 (UTC)