Talk:Adminotaur

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Some technical notes

Hey WardPhoenix, just saw this article, very cool. I wanted to offer a couple of technical/coding suggestions, for the most part just things for you to consider, and do with as you please. (Save a couple of exceptions, which I'll note.)

  • Indenting any content away from the left margin of the page (starting any line with one or more spaces, in other words) converts the content that follows into a fixed-width font (aka monospace) — effectively, it's the same as wrapping <pre>...</pre> around it. That's occasionally what you want, but usually not, and fixed-width text should definitely be used very sparingly on the wiki.
In particular, the following content is showing up in a fixed-width font only because of the spaces at the beginning, when it would be better that it be formatted as normal body text:
  1.  '''Daily Diary of Dungeon's Administration -Day 176- 2302 g.e.''' 
    
  2.    Accompanied by a crescendoing thunder of timpani, the Adminotaur makes his appearance. [[https://godvillegame.com/duels/log/nj1u4jatx]]
  3. (All of the content inside the "admin diary" boxes is also showing fixed-width, which may or may not be intentional in that case. But more on that later.)
  • Speaking of the chronicle quote, which I note is followed by a URL, two things on that:
  1. While wikilinks are surrounded by double square braces, the syntax for HTML links (URLs) is as follows: [https://link.to/content text for link] IOW, single square braces, URL, a space, and then the link text. The double square braces are why the link is showing up inside braces in the rendered article.

  2. However, syntax aside, off-site links (URL links) really shouldn't be included inline with the article content. Sourcing content is great, and very much encouraged, and can be done using the standard wiki citation format. Basically, this uses the <ref>...</ref> tag to insert a links to source information, which is listed in the References section at the end of the article.
This code:
Accompanied by a crescendoing thunder of timpani, the Adminotaur makes his appearance.<ref>[https://godvillegame.com/duels/log/nj1u4jatx Dungeon Chronicles, Well of Emptiness, 01/05/2019]</ref>

==References==
<references/>
Will produce the following:

Accompanied by a crescendoing thunder of timpani, the Adminotaur makes his appearance.[1]

References
In this case, the chronicle quote is the last thing on the page anyway. But if there were any more content, the References section would be placed after all of it, right before the Navboxes at the very end of the article.
  • If you wanted to format the chronicle item as something other than normal text, rather than making it fixed-width there's always the {{Diary}} template, which formats its contents to look like an in-game diary entry. You can click on that link for the full docs, but basically the title and etc. can be changed as needed.
    So for example:
    {{Diary|title=Dungeon Journal|text=Accompanied by a crescendoing thunder of timpani, the Adminotaur makes his appearance.<ref>[https://godvillegame.com/duels/log/nj1u4jatx Dungeon Chronicles, Well of Emptiness, 01/05/2019]</ref>}}
    Gets you:
    !Dungeon Journal
    Accompanied by a crescendoing thunder of timpani, the Adminotaur makes his appearance.[1]
  • {{Diary}} is something to consider for the collapsible admin-journal content, as well. It can contain basically anything you like, including markup, even collapsible divs. Care just needs to be taken to format everything on one line, using HTML <br /> linebreaks instead of real newlines.
Here's a partial example of a {{Diary}} box version of that admin content:
{{Diary|width=100%|title=Daily Diary of Dungeon's Administration -Day 176- 2302 g.e.|text=<div class="mw-collapsible mw-collapsed">'''Afternoon'''<div class="mw-collapsible-content">'''08:00PM''' : Time for my daily poker game with the [[Dungeon Keeper]], the [[Bluffalo]] and the [[Flawyer]].<br>'''08:17PM''' : The dungeon's alarm ring for the entrance of a new team of {{heroes or heroines}}. Not gonna stop that game for that.<br>'''09:00PM''' : We took a break for the game and I decided to pass by the treasure trove. Bumped into the team of adventurers.</div></div>}}
!Daily Diary of Dungeon's Administration -Day 176- 2302 g.e.
Afternoon
08:00PM : Time for my daily poker game with the Dungeon Keeper, the Bluffalo and the Flawyer.
08:17PM : The dungeon's alarm ring for the entrance of a new team of heroes. Not gonna stop that game for that.
09:00PM : We took a break for the game and I decided to pass by the treasure trove. Bumped into the team of adventurers.
  • Whatever you do about the admin-journal content, please never set pixel-widths for text content of any kind. The content on the wiki needs to responsively format to all sorts of different size screens, and pixel-widths defeat that responsive sizing.
CSS sizes that scale based on device resolution, like em or rem widths, are preferable if content size has to be specified. But for content like that admin-journal text, especially — where there are lots of long text lines — formatting to width=100% is really the best option. (Or you can not set the width at all, and it'll simply format to the width of the content. But that doesn't necessarily work so well with collapsibles since they'll change size when collapsed.)

The article looks great, and the advanced formatting is extremely creative — great work! Despite the length of my explanations here, I really don't think it needs much more than some minor tweaking to polish it up. -- FeRDNYC (talk) 09:59, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

Ave Cesar, Those who have read salute you! Joke aside, thank you for all the insightFeRDNYC ! As you noticed, I'm not quite familiar with the wiki yet, especially when it comes to the formating. When i got the time and the computer, i may gonna give your advices a try myself on this article to both train myself and ease the incoming reviewing. So thx again for the advices and for the compliments on the article ! WardPhoenix 10:34, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

Edits from JanuWiki review

Hey User:WardPhoenix! I freaking love this. A brilliant description of clerical hell and dungeon administration!

I made two separate edits to this, because I want you to be able to reverse the second one and return the diary to its original formatting if you like. But I'll explain:

Phase one: Spelling and grammar: Smoothed it over for readability and expression, but I did my best to keep what you were saying intact and clear. Please make any changes where I might have misunderstood. In many cases the grammar was technically fine, but just wasn't the way a native speaker would express the ideas. A couple of friendly grammar notes (I hope you don't mind, but I actually teach english as a second language, so I like to help with it!):

  • Verbs in the third person plural or singular: "Except for the ones that make the mistake"; "the Adminotaur manages"; "the administrative job starts now"; "the paper pile measures"; "what he has written";
  • Some plural/singular noun forms: "A lot of dungeons"; "in terms of" (in fact, in this English idiom, "terms" is always in the plural, no matter how many terms there are); "and sweet talking tax collectors"; "praise" and "information" are uncountable nouns and don't pluralise to "praises" or "informations"; "people" in this context is uncountable and doesn't pluralise to "peoples" (read more); "one of the all-time best sellers" (When you're "one of the nouns", the noun is pluralised. When you're "one of the nominal adjective" the adjective is not. Compare "one of the greats" and "one of the greatest", for example. Nominal adjectives.); etc.
  • Tricky infinitives, simple past, past participles: "decide" in a verb phrase is followed by an infinitive, so the simple past tense of "decide to sell" would be "decided to sell" (and the past perfect would be "decided to have sold", "to have" in infinitive and "sold" in past participle); the past tense of "to deal" is irregular ("dealt"); "Some Boozerker mistaken", "to mistake" is one of those pesky verbs where the simple past ("he mistook") and the past participle ("he is mistaken") are different, so "Some Boozerker mistook"; etc.

You can see my changes and edits, of course, and if you have any questions about anything I changed please don't hesitate to ask.

(Oh, and a party can't exit the dungeon through the entrance before step 20, so I changed them all to step 21! 😆)

Phase two: Formatting: To me, the Adminotaur's diary entry was an essential part of your brilliant idea. I didn't want anyone reading the article to miss the very funny diary simply because it was collapsed and they didn't see it. I didn't feel like there was any reason to hide it.

I felt like the fixed-width font sections for the diary entries distracted from the text: they were a little hard to read, and caused big gaps between the entries. So I did some styling to keep the timestamps fixed-width and bolded, while letting the text be easier to read and the spacing more natural.

If you disagree with my changes to the formatting, please go ahead and undo the edit.

In summary, I loved this article, and it was a pleasure to read and to edit. Please don't take my grammar pointers above personally — I am both a teacher and a learner of a language, and I hope my explanations were helpful. As I said, never hesitate to ask about an edit I made, or about English usage. :) -- Djonni (talk) 20:38, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

Seconding the opinion above from Djonni, this is an excellent view of the other side of the dungeon. You should definitely think about adapting some of the boss/party entries for the ideabox. WardPhoenix, ++ -- S624 (talk) 20:51, 7 January 2019 (UTC)
Thanks for all the kind words (and the reviewing). SPAG : no problem on my side, i know my english is ... random. So I totally trust you on the matter (didn't anything shocking). And I was convinced for some reasons that it was 11 steps for leaving dungeon, I'll check better next time. Formatting : The collapsing was to avoid a "Whoah, way too much to read" kind of reaction, but it's not a necessity obviously. It was my POV on it but since I was working on it for too long I didn't have the fresh eye for that. That's the point of reviewing :) So thanks again ! WardPhoenix 21:27, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

Image aspect

I actually do have one last piece of feedback, now that I've looked at the article on my phone especially.

The infobox image is awesome and great for the article — but I think it's probably a little too tall. On a mobile device, the infobox is longer than the entire screen — in fact, the image alone is longer than my phone's screen, and even on desktop the large infobox just kind of overpowers the rest of the article.

What I'd suggest is, if the image is widened — even just by sticking whitespace padding on either side of the Adminotaur — then it will render less tall as a result. A modified image can be uploaded in place of the old one, in fact (as a "new version"), and it will automatically be swapped in, but can also still be reverted.

Actually, since this is my idea, I'm going to go ahead and take care of that... but feel free to revert the image change (which you'll be able to do at File:Adminotaur.jpeg) if my change causes any problems. -- FeRDNYC (talk) 02:23, 8 January 2019 (UTC)

- Looks weird on my phone (proportions of the picture isnt the same as original) but i suspect it may come from my very small phone screen. Needs people to confirm. WardPhoenix 10:12, 8 January 2019 (UTC)
That's likely a caching issue, it happens because the new image replaced the old. Browsers that had recently loaded the older version will sometimes show that image, but with the new aspect. A forced page reload should fix it, usually. But rest assured that's a temporary issue, and only affects those of us who'd viewed the earlier version. -- FeRDNYC (talk) 11:34, 8 January 2019 (UTC)
Feedback - I've been meaning to feed this back for a few days so here goes. In the Godville app browser (Android), the image isn't displayed correctly & also the infobox labels don't display. In Firefox mobile, they do. There is also a spurious contents header. -- S624 (talk) 11:44, 8 January 2019 (UTC)
Huh... Well, the image is a caching issue. I had the same on desktop until I manually refreshed — on most desktop browsers, Ctrl+F5 will ignore the cache and refresh from the server. :) In the in-app browser, I'm not sure if it's possible to bypass the cache upon refresh, which means, uh... Lemme check...
Whelp, here's what the GodWiki's HTML headers set for the caching of images:
  Expires: Thu, 31 Dec 2037 23:55:55 GMT
  Cache-Control: max-age=315360000
Soooo if you use the in-game browser, you'll see the pic correctly in less than 20 years 👍😅
The spurious "Contents" header is a known issue with the mobile CSS skin, I believe it was reported through Ideabox as a bug by someone, but if you were to submit another bug report with a screenshot it might help.
As for the infobox labels, that stumps me. Is it on all infoboxes, just the new style infoboxes, just monsters, or just the Adminotaur? On my in-app browser those are rendering perfectly fine! 🤔 -- Djonni (talk) 11:56, 8 January 2019 (UTC)


There are two issues there — actually, three, total. One is the caching issue: it's still using the old image with the new aspect. Unfortunately, there's no way to purge the page cache in the app's web browser, so there's no way to force an update. As you say, it displays correctly in Firefox mobile. (And Chrome, too.) The other issue is that the entire left edge of the infobox is cut off — on your phone. On my phone, OTOH, the infobox is just barely hanging off the left edge of the screen (but not enough to cut off any content). So it isn't even consistent in how it breaks. The third issue is the random spurious Contents header, which is known and reported. (See  Holy Spirit of Hell 's last comment on that page.)
The long and short of it is that the app browser still does a lot of fucked-up things with infobox formatting, it's a known issue we're tracking and exploring (also the reason I resurrected User:FeRDNYC/Sandbox as a testbed), but for the moment there isn't anything we can do to directly address the issue, as the problem is not on the wiki content side. -- FeRDNYC (talk) 12:05, 8 January 2019 (UTC)

In the in-app browser, I'm not sure if it's possible to bypass the cache upon refresh
— User:Djonni

On refresh, sadly not. You can, of course:
  1. Quit the app
  2. Go into Android Settings
  3. Select Godville in the Apps list
  4. Tap Storage
  5. Tap "Clear Cache" to blow away the entire app cache
...And if that sounds like overkill, you betcha. -- FeRDNYC (talk) 12:10, 8 January 2019 (UTC)
(I would actually be curious, S624, what the various infoboxes at User:FeRDNYC/Sandbox end up looking like in the Godville app browser on your device, since it's obviously formatting differently from my own. Feedback at User talk:FeRDNYC/Sandbox s'il vous plaît.) -- FeRDNYC (talk) 12:16, 8 January 2019 (UTC)
While we're tallying mobile formatting issues, another one I've been noticing: When you're on a Talk page like this one, there's no way to get to the actual article associated with it. The jump-to-nav isn't populated (that's the little link that takes you back to the parent page from a subpage, like the "< Talk:Main Page" underneath the title of Talk:Main Page/Archive), and the tab bar only shows the "Read/Edit/Add topic/View History" section, not the "Page/Discussion" section. -- FeRDNYC (talk) 12:24, 8 January 2019 (UTC)
Confirming that emptying cache put the picture right. WardPhoenix 13:01, 8 January 2019 (UTC)
──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── FeRDNYC, there is an active Page tab in the Android Godville app / Firefox mobile while on talk pages. -- S624 (talk) 20:55, 8 January 2019 (UTC)
Hm, so there is. But only in landscape orientation, at least on my phone. The "Add Topic" button crowds it out in portrait mode. (Which is probably why Wikimedia sets the label on that tab to simply "+".) -- FeRDNYC (talk) 03:06, 9 January 2019 (UTC)
OK, here's what's really confusing: That message is set to "+" in the Godwiki MediaWiki configuration. They must be modifying it some other way. How unfortunate. Neeeeevermind, that message is controlled by MediaWiki:Vector-action-addsection for Vector, which is indeed set to "Add topic". -- FeRDNYC (talk) 03:34, 9 January 2019 (UTC)
Well, I've removed the wrapper DIVs from all of the Infoboxes (since the CSS they were both taking advantage of and avoiding only existed in the Minerva mobile skin, anyway, so there was no longer any point to them), which should stop the Infoboxes being chopped off on S624's phone. They still render off-center and just sliiiiiiightly sticking off the left edge of the screen, using the Godville app browser on my phone in portrait orientation, but it's not enough to obscure any content and (more importantly) there's nothing we can do about that, since it's coming from the app itself. Everything (still) looks perfect in mobile Chrome on my phone. -- FeRDNYC (talk) 06:19, 9 January 2019 (UTC)
Oh yes, and two advantages to removing the wrappers (and the reason I wanted to do it anyway):
  1. The article body text can now wrap closer to the infobox, on screens wide enough to show text alongside
  2. The font for all of the text inside the infobox is slightly larger
-- FeRDNYC (talk) 06:21, 9 January 2019 (UTC)
I've also re-submitted the Contents-heading issue to the devs, with User:S624's screenshot included, and requested that the heading be suppressed with an addition to the wiki CSS. Details on my admin-requests page. -- FeRDNYC (talk) 09:16, 9 January 2019 (UTC)