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[[File:Ralph wave.gif|200px|left]]Hi, friend or stranger! You've found your way to my Talk page. I'm {{god|Djonni}}, and this is one of the ways you can get in touch with me about anything game or wiki related. If you leave me a note here, I'll reply here. '''You can <span class="plainlinks">[http://wiki.godvillegame.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Djonni&action=edit&section=new click here]</span> to start a conversation with me about a new topic below.''' If you prefer you're also welcome to add me as a friend in the game and message me directly there. I'll reply equally promptly to either.

You'll also note, if you're a little experienced in how the wiki works, that my page is not in the <tt>User:</tt> namespace. This is on purpose &mdash; I'm perfectly happy for others to <span class="plainlinks">[http://wiki.godvillegame.com/index.php?title=Djonni&action=edit make changes]</span> to my page. If I have a problem with it I'll just undo the edit, just like any other page. And if for whatever reason I'm not around, then it doesn't really matter anyway!

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== #switch/automatic switch and featured articles ==

Hello there!

I am currently trying to build up a [[User:WardPhoenix/Sandbox|new template]] to replace the current main page featured article, with the idea to have an article randomly choosen every X time (I was thinking going either every week or day), idea that came from your switching header on your page.

Though I have some trouble with the combinaison of #switch and the [[Template:Random number]]. I have noticed that the daily one actually switched by itself at some point, I didn't have the same kind of result with the one using seconds, that one not changing at all.

Since trying with week would take ages, I'd go ahead about what you think about seconds not working (cache things?) and it would work with weeks directly.

While I am at it, I would like to have your global opinion on the automatic featured idea. To go more into details, like I said it would switch article automaticaly once in a while, from a premade list (kinda like the list of [[Template : Cite blog]]) where we'll add the article worth of being featured (and we could still nominate article to go into that list, or even force an article to be displayed, by having the random being a default but replacable parameter). --[[User:WardPhoenix|WardPhoenix]] ([[User talk:WardPhoenix|talk]]) 13:59, 7 August 2020 (UTC)

:Ahaaah! I've been watching your experiments, wondering what you were planning to build with randomness! Yes, I can explain everything 😄

:If you use a random number source that changes all the time (like {{tlc|&#35;time:U}}, {{tlc|&#35;time:z}}, etc), the resume will change every single time the page is ''cached''. I use this technique in my header for the horribly <small>(hilariously? Yeah, hilariously)</small> obnoxious "Graphic design is my passion" header to change the colours several times through the day. The Godwiki runs a full cache every few hours — every time the featured image on the main page changes, it's because it's been re-cached and a random number generator was used to pick a fresh image. 😊

:So, if you want something to change ''daily'', it's best to use a number source that changes daily. {{tlx|Daily choice}}, and all the {{tlx|he or she}} templates that use it, does this. So, perhaps it's worth us making a {{tlc|Weekly choice}} template for this use? I'm sure once we have it we'll find other creative applications for it... Maybe I'll change my {{para|avatar}} once a week now 😁

:As for the idea of the rotating featured articles, that seems like a pretty nice idea to me. I think it's at least worth setting it up, running it for a few months, and see how we like it. And I think having a {{tlc|Weekly choice}} available opens up other Main Page options too... Perhaps we make a rotating list of the most wanted page, or stubs, to try and catch some more creative engagement right from the front page.

:Seems like a solid idea to me! -- [[User:Djonni|Djonni]] ([[User talk:Djonni|talk]]) 16:27, 7 August 2020 (UTC)

:: So that's why those #time things were not doing what I expected, looks like I gonna have to look at good old magic words then. And I completely overlooked the existence of [[Template:Daily choice]], which seemed a good basis for what I had in mind at first read. Though, from what I am reading and understanding, this template rotates between possibilities rather than selecting randomly between them. 

:: Basically, I need a <code><nowiki>{{#switch:{{{1}}}|1 = article 1|2 = article 2|n = article n|[...]}}</nowiki></code> but with the <code>{{{1}}}</code> being randomized every week. 
:: Shouldn't something like <code><nowiki>{{#ifeq: {{#expr:{{CURRENTWEEK}}mod 2}}|0|{{Template:Random Number}}|{{Template:Random number}} }}</nowiki></code> generate a random number with every new week? Then I could use that generated number as my <code>{{{1}}}</code>. --[[User:WardPhoenix|WardPhoenix]] ([[User talk:WardPhoenix|talk]]) 19:05, 7 August 2020 (UTC)

:: <code><nowiki>{{#switch: {{{1|{{#ifeq: {{#expr:{{CURRENTWEEK}}mod 2}}|0|{{Template:Random number|X}}|{{Template:Random number|X|Y}} }} }}} |0 = test 0 |1 = test 1 |2 = test 2 |3 = test 3 |[...] }}</nowiki></code> Acutal code I came up with so far. --[[User:WardPhoenix|WardPhoenix]] ([[User talk:WardPhoenix|talk]]) 19:19, 7 August 2020 (UTC)

::: Well, the problem with <code><nowiki>{{#switch: {{{1|{{#ifeq: {{#expr:{{CURRENTWEEK}}mod 2}}|0|{{Template:Random number|X}}|{{Template:Random number|X|Y}}...</nowiki></code> is that it still gets called every time the page caches. So, every week it will change between running <code><nowiki>{{Template:Random number|X}}</nowiki></code> or <code><nowiki>{{Template:Random number|X|Y}}</nowiki></code> with every page cache, but it's still gonna choose a new random number every time, several times a day.

::: It's true that {{tlc|Daily choice}} rotates through the list in order, instead of randomly choosing, but there are good reasons for that (and as I think about it, randomness may not be what we want for the featured article either...). The first reason is ''randomness is hard''. Especially with the kinds of elementary tools available on the the wiki. (Okay, none of what we're talking about is really randomness, it's _psuedorandomness_, but for simplicity I'll keep calling it randomness.) Randomness requires quite large numbers (this is why {{tlx|Random number}} uses {{tlc|<nowiki />#time: U}}, the number of seconds since Jan 1 1970, because it's a large number: {{#time:U}}). The numbers we have available that will be useful for weekly changes are really far too small to do this well...

::: Oh crap, I've run out of time... Gotta dash, I'll add more here shortly -- [[User:Djonni|Djonni]] ([[User talk:Djonni|talk]]) 05:36, 8 August 2020 (UTC)

{{outdent|:::}}Okay, so. Without a real pseudorandom number generator available on the wiki, the best we have are numbers that are large but change predictably — numbers that come from time measurement. So, we approximate randomness by taking those large numbers and using some tricks to get a less predictable result. Typically, this is modulo arithmetic: take a large number of seconds, mod a not-too-small prime, and your remainder is random-ish. You'll notice that the docs for {{tlc|Random number}} specify that the prime used there should not be less than 67. You'll also see <code>mod ''prime''</code> sprinkled everywhere through the {{tlc|<nowiki />#switch:}} functions on my user page (I use mostly small but carefully chosen primes, because the cases I'm choosing from are also small).

The variables available for weeks are all going to give us really small numbers: {{tlc|CURRENTWEEK}} ({{CURRENTWEEK}}), and {{tlc|<nowiki />#time: W}} ({{#time: W}}) are too small to be useful for randomness at all.

Aha! But I just remembered we have {{tlx|Gregorian-serial date}}, we can use that! {{tlc|<nowiki />#expr: trunc ({{tl|Gregorian-serial date}} / 7)}} will give us the count of weeks since the start of the Gregorian calendar: {{#expr: trunc ({{Gregorian-serial date}} / 7)}}! That'll do for our purposes to get a large-ish number that changes weekly.

But there's still a question as to whether randomness is really what we want, for this use. Randomness has some undesirable properties. Let's say that we have 7 articles in our list:

* Choosing randomly, 1/7 of the time the same outcome will be chosen twice in a row (and 1/7² of the time, three times in a row).
* Choosing randomly, 1/7 of the time the ''previous'' outcome will appear again next (i.e., A, B, A will happen 1 time out of 7).
* Choosing randomly, some of the choices will not appear for very long periods, while other choices get chosen frequently. After a very long time we would approach a flat distribution, but for the first couple of years it will look more like a [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normal_distribution normal distribution,] and even when the distribution is flat it will include a lot of long streaks of where some articles never appear)

With real programming you can overcome these limitations by, for example, putting the list in a random but semi-stable order, or writing a choice function which is partly random but gives you some frequency guarantees. We can't do that here.

Hence why {{tlx|Daily choice}} and my user page use rotation, instead of randomness. We can still go down the random road if you like, but it's worth considering if randomness is really the effect you want. 😊 -- [[User:Djonni|Djonni]] ([[User talk:Djonni|talk]]) 07:08, 8 August 2020 (UTC)

: ''*sad noises**'' Yeah, I noticed that it was still switching with the cache, here goes my idea ''*throw the template by the window*''. I have three problem with the {{tlx|daily choice}} : 
: 1) Like already said, it's a rotation, meaning the order will always be the same no matter what (at some point we'll know that Y article will appear next after the X article, no surprise element) ; 
: 2) If you update the template to add a new article to the list, it will restart the rotation, which could cause some articles to not appear until very late
: 3) You can't force the presence of one article, in case of special events for example.
: That said, maybe changing the whole featured things to automatic isn't the best idea after all. But maybe, instead I could create a premade list of featurable articles that would work like the list of {{tlx|cite blog}}?
: Meaning, for example, we'd have <code><nowiki>{{Featured|1}}</nowiki></code> and the template would grab the article associated to the number 1. It would mean changing it manually, but atleast, once the full list is made, it would be less a pain in the ass to update. 
: The reason I wanted to change the template was because it became quite difficult to find new articles to feature and because the historic is becoming difficult to read because of it's length. So basically I wanted to get rid of the contraints of taking a new article, and having to retape it every time. Dunno if it's really a good idea, you'll tell me xD (or if you have a better one I'll take it as well!).  --[[User:WardPhoenix|WardPhoenix]] ([[User talk:WardPhoenix|talk]]) 12:19, 8 August 2020 (UTC)

:: Belatedly responding to this :)

:: {{tqi|the order will always be the same no matter what... no surprise element...}}: Yes, unfortunately, the only methods I can think of either have the drawbacks of randomness above, or the drawbacks of predictability. But on the other hand, the only people who will know what the order is are the people who edit the templates, which means, well... probably just you and I. It'll still be a surprise to everyone else! And if the list of articles is long enough, I certainly know that I won't remember what's coming next! 😅

:: {{tqi|If you update the template to add a new article to the list, it will restart the rotation...}}: Well, not necessarily. If you change the ''length'' of the list, it will jump to an unpredictable location (as you'll go from "mod ''n''" to "mod ''n + 1''", so you'll get a different remainder). But if we simply set the length of the list and don't change it, to add new articles to the list you simply have to replace old articles that have been displayed. And worst case, if we do want to enlarge the list without changing the position, because it's predictable we can always manually add an offset.

:: Say we have a list of 15 articles, and the template is currently showing article 3. We add two more articles to the list, and find that it's now showing article 12. Using modulo-17 arithmetic (17 being the new list length), we know that <code>12 + 8 = 3</code>, so we can manually adjust our math: <code><nowiki>{{#expr: (trunc ({{Gregorian-serial date}} / 7)</nowiki> '''''+ 8''''') mod 15}<nowiki />}</code>. That <code>+ 8</code> in the middle there will ensure that we are still showing article 3 after our edit, and article 4 will come next.

:: {{tqi|You can't force the presence of one article, in case of special events for example...}}: Sure you can! In fact it's much easier to do this than with a random template, that's one of the advantages of a rotation system. If next week is a special week (say, Christmas) and I want to change the featured article for next week to, say, [[Satan Claus]], I just look at the number of the current article and insert Satan Claus into the next number in the rotation.

:: If you want to be extra tricky, we can even put a check at the start to make sure today isn't a special date (something like what I did with [[Template:Navbox list/Bullet]]), and override the normal rotation for a day/week/month, etc.

:: And if we have a special event, like a content drive, we can start putting great completed articles into the featured article list as an extra motivator.

:: {{tqb|That said, maybe changing the whole featured things to automatic isn't the best idea after all. But maybe, instead I could create a premade list of featurable articles that would work like the list of {{tlx|cite blog}}? Meaning, for example, we'd have <code><nowiki>{{Featured|1}}</nowiki></code> and the template would grab the article associated to the number 1. It would mean changing it manually, but atleast, once the full list is made, it would be less a pain in the ass to update.}}

:: So, this is pretty close to how I imagine the rotation would work, except just not manually. :) Inside {{tlc|Featured}} would be the system which chooses one of the articles from the list automatically, so that it's not a pain in the ass at all, it simply changes itself automatically. I think it's the best of both worlds.

:: {{tqi|The historic is becoming difficult to read because of it's length...}}: Yeah, I think we can probably get rid of it. It's entirely for the benefit of the people who maintain the featured article, and so if it's more trouble for us than it's worth, then it should go. :)

:: Incidentally, with the rotation system, it remains possible to keep the "Previously featured:" section at the bottom, maintained automatically as well. They're just articles n-1 and n-2 in the rotation.

:: Honestly, I think the idea is still a great idea, it's just a shame we don't have the tools on the wiki to make it unpredictable the way you originally imagined. I still think having a rotation changing it each week to the next article in a list is a much, much better system than the way we do it now! I'm still positive about the idea. 😊 -- [[User:Djonni|Djonni]] ([[User talk:Djonni|talk]]) 05:18, 13 August 2020 (UTC)

::: ''A lot of scrolling was done.'' Well, thanks for the feedback and informations.Daily choice alike seems the way to go. I'll try sorting up the full template for featured when I can. 
::: May do a weekly choice template also, to have the featured one a little cleaner, if it works as intended. -- [[User:WardPhoenix|WardPhoenix]] ([[User talk:WardPhoenix|talk]]) 22:26, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

== Updating guild wiki ==

Hey, I've been updating the guild wiki for my guild, https://wiki.godvillegame.com/Righteous_guild! , and I noticed that at the bottom of the header box there is a little note that says data current as of August 2016. I'd like to change that, but I cannot find any access to that little line of info in the edit tab.

Any help would be great!
-- [[User:His portliness|His portliness]] ([[User talk:His portliness|talk]]) 22:58, 3 October 2020 (UTC)

:The |date= parameter appears to be the right place - simply find the parameter and change its date accordingly. [[User:Hankvi Guidza|Hankvi Guidza]] ([[User talk:Hankvi Guidza|talk]]) 23:00, 3 October 2020 (UTC)
:: Got it, thanks! -- [[User:His portliness|His portliness]] ([[User talk:His portliness|talk]]) 23:03, 3 October 2020 (UTC)

::: 😁 Glad I could help! 😂

::: The {{tlx|guild}} template has awful parameters, with nonsensical or unsemantic names. It's ugly and unfriendly and difficult for new users to understand, which is especially frustrating as it's one of the templates that is ''most likely'' to be interacted with by new and inexperienced wiki users. Unfortunately it's been in use the way it is for 10 years now, and so giving it a renovation/rebuild without breaking a decade's worth of guild wiki pages is going to be... a challenge. 😐 -- [[User:Djonni|Djonni]] ([[User talk:Djonni|talk]]) 05:59, 4 October 2020 (UTC)

:::: Has anyone considered making a new template for future use, and then slowly converting the old guild's wikis? In the more active guilds you can probably get a volunteer to convert their page, in the less active ones, well, just add it to a to-do list lol. 
:::: Also, there are many guilds that have been inactive for years and just happen to have whatever random hero floated in, and should probably be deleted anyway.
:::: -- [[User:His portliness|His portliness]] ([[User talk:His portliness|talk]]) 07:06, 4 October 2020 (UTC)

::::: Well, it wouldn't be in the Godwiki spirit to alter a guild page without permission (even for an inactive or vanished guild), and we also don't usually delete the pages for the guilds that have disappeared, though we do mark them as defunct with the badly-named {{tlx|delete guild}} template.

::::: The approach we'll need to take is along similar lines to the huge overhaul of the {{tlx|Usergod}} template last year. A lot of public notice about the changes in the forums, a long process of making sure we're getting it right, a long period to allow active guild pages to make changes with help. We would have to make a decision together as a community about whether we simply switch old guild pages over to the new infobox without notice, or whether we find a technical means to keep those pages looking the same as they do now, which could be a challenge.

::::: Right now, it's a project I haven't really got the spare attention that it will need 😅 Though if it's going to be done this year, I suppose the clock is ticking. -- [[User:Djonni|Djonni]] ([[User talk:Djonni|talk]]) 09:37, 4 October 2020 (UTC)

== Totem for righteous guild ==

Hey, I went to add the new totem for righteous guild but you beat me to it lol

Sunbathing vampire is a stub, how much more info does it need to become a regular page?
-- [[User:His portliness|His portliness]] ([[User talk:His portliness|talk]]) 19:16, 10 October 2020 (UTC)

: Sure did, sorry! I figured that updating the monster page and list of monsters may have slipped your mind 😊

: They're no hard and fast rules about what is or isn't a stub. Think of a stub on the Godwiki as simply an invitation to expand it, to contribute creativity somewhere that we see an opportunity for more creativity. If you've added something substantial to an article and you think it's no longer a stub, you can remove the template if you want to [[wikipedia:Be Bold|'''Be Bold''']], and someone may come along and put it back on if they disagree. 😊 Or, if you'd like an opinion and feedback on an article, you can leave a message on [[Help:Requests]] to ask other Wikimedia contributors if they think it should no longer be a stub, and for some advice on it.

: So no nice clean answer like "4 paragraphs on 3 sentences each", I'm afraid, it's much more along the lines of "we'd love to see someone apply some more creativity here". -- [[User:Djonni|Djonni]] ([[User talk:Djonni|talk]]) 20:17, 10 October 2020 (UTC)

:: No hard feelings, I'm just trying to fill the large shoes of The Mighty Stang, who, although hasn't ever disappeared from the short term pantheons, has disappeared from actively updating anything. He taught me a bunch when I first joined the game, so I try to keep some parts of the wiki updated. Btw, have you heard from Stang? We were kind of close before he just fell off the map, although he lurks still. 
:: ps, check out the [[Righteous_guild!|'''Righteous Guild!''']] wiki page for his shout out :)
::-- [[User:His portliness|His portliness]] ([[User talk:His portliness|talk]]) 22:51, 10 October 2020 (UTC)

::: I didn't know Mighty Stang well I'm afraid, only though reputation and wiki interactions. But it's a general trend that I've noticed this year &mdash; many of the most established, most active, and most beloved members of the game community have stepped back a little, as the world we live in becomes harder to, well, live in. Of the, say, 10-15 most active and prominent community participants this time last year I can probably think of 5 or 6 that are still really active at the moment. Everyday life's just been taking a lot more of our attention and energy, and for those who enjoyed giving a lot of that attention and energy to the game and its community, there's just not so much to spare, now.

::: But I predict that a large number of those players will return, slowly. That's the cycle I went through this year; my burdens were weighted towards the start of this year (so far, ''inshallah''), and I slowly returned to being almost as active as I was. My advice, if you want it, is just to make sure he knows that he's always welcome back without pressure, and that if he doesn't wish to take on any leadership or responsibility then nobody minds that either. It's much easier for a player who was very active to ease themselves back at their own pace, than to feel like that have to step right back into their old high-profile role. 😊

::: Now, if you need any help or advice about the guild wiki page, don't hesitate to ask! One free tip is that a big page like your guild's is '''''much''''' easier to edit on desktop than on mobile, if you're able to do that. -- [[User:Djonni|Djonni]] ([[User talk:Djonni|talk]]) 05:46, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

:::: Hmmm, maybe I should take down that notice on the guild wiki...
:::: Anyway, thank you for the advice, once in a (long) while I find the time to sink time in to the wikis, and when that happens again maybe I'll get some advice from you on tackling bigger projects. I've always been wary of anything involving more than a tiny bit of code, as there isn't really a good tutorial on how the coding works. I'm not about to go become a programmer just to edit wikis, although wouldn't it be nice if we can all donate significant portions of our lives to the things we enjoy? Anyway, I'm ranting, so thank you for your help and offers! 
:::: --[[User:His portliness|His portliness]] ([[User talk:His portliness|talk]]) 06:05, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

::::: Well, the Godwiki works much like any other wiki, including Wikipedia, except that our wiki is built on a much simpler and older version of the wiki software (and doesn't include the fancy new Visual Editor, just the regular ol' Wiki Markup Editor). The [[wikipedia:Help:Introduction to editing with Wiki Markup/1|Wikipedia Introduction to editing with Wiki Markup]] should be a pretty good place to start, if you're looking for a tutorial on how editing works. 😊 -- [[User:Djonni|Djonni]] ([[User talk:Djonni|talk]]) 06:46, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

:::::: I updated the [[Sunbathing Vampire]]. Can I mark it as not a stub? What are your thoughts on my update? --[[User:His portliness|His portliness]] ([[User talk:His portliness|talk]])

{{outdent|::::::}} I've given [[Sunbathing Vampire]] a once-over and made some corrections and changes, added a latin name, and a couple of other minor changes. I removed the references to mother-in-law's basement &mdash; I'm not sure if they came from your edit or from an older edit. I also changed the references to Fireball whiskey, which doesn't exist in the Godville universe as far as our {{heroes and heroines}}' diaries have recorded, to a reference to a real and existing artifact, [[bottle of djinn and tonic]].

I took the {{tlx|stub}} hatnote off the page, but I'll be honest, I think there's still some room to make it even better. As a reader I still have some questions! 😊

''Why'' does this Vampire love Sunbathing so much? It's a wildly irresponsible thing for a Vampire to do. Is it simply a daredevil, an adrenaline junky? If it's an adrenaline junky, does it love the taste of adrenaline in the blood of {{heroes and heroines}}, and if so, how does it maximise that flavour? On the other hand, this story claims that it comes from hell or from a basement. Perhaps that's why it loves the sun so much &mdash; until it came to the surface, it spent its entire existence never seeing sunlight. Is that what makes it risk everything to sunbathe?

Anyway, if you feel inspired, I think you should keep working on the article at your own pace. It's ''good'' now, but you have the chance to make your guild totem's article and backstory ''great'', if you like 😊 -- [[User:Djonni|Djonni]] ([[User talk:Djonni|talk]]) 05:15, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

: Thanks for the feedback. I'll definitely put more work into it. I didn't want the writing to feel forced so I stopped where I did. 
: --[[User:His portliness|His portliness]] ([[User talk:His portliness|talk]]) 06:25, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

:: Heh, yeah, that's not unwise! It can be hard to judge your writing as you're writing it, and a bit of distance definitely helps! 😄 -- [[User:Djonni|Djonni]] ([[User talk:Djonni|talk]]) 07:38, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

== Picture troubles ==

I tried adding a picture to [[12th step]], but it showed up double with some random text on the side. Any explanation? What an I doing wrong? 
--[[User:His portliness|His portliness]] ([[User talk:His portliness|talk]]) 09:00, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

: I fixed it for you in [https://wiki.godvillegame.com/index.php?title=12th_step&type=revision&diff=121539&oldid=121536 this edit.] The infoboxes take care of the formatting of the picture so that it's consistent, and as hard as possible for people to screw up mobile views (you'd be surprised how easy this is to do, and even with the infoboxes we still have users who struggle when using mobile devices with narrow screens like iPhones<=5ish generation).

: So the template wants ''just the image name'', and none of the <code><nowiki>[[File:...|stuff]]</nowiki></code>, or the formatting and display happens twice with some junk, as you discovered. 😊 Without access under the hood of the wiki code, which no players have (nor are likely to get any time soon), there's not way around this, I'm afraid. -- [[User:Djonni|Djonni]] ([[User talk:Djonni|talk]]) 09:17, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

::That was indeed confusing to me, especially since on [[Special:Upload]] the instructions say to include the <code><nowiki>[[File:...|stuff]]</nowiki></code>. Maybe that page should be updated with clearer instructions on how to add a picture to an infobox? In the actual [[Creators_Manual#Images|Creators Manual]] it does mention about infoboxes, however my assumption is that people are going to simply follow the (slightly confusing) information on the [[Special:Upload]] page. --[[User:His portliness|His portliness]] ([[User talk:His portliness|talk]]) 09:50, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

::: Aaahhhh, I'd never connected the instructions on that page with people's confusion about the template parameters, but it seems obvious now! Thank you for pointing that out, I'll have to get that fixed up Soon As I Can™️ -- [[User:Djonni|Djonni]] ([[User talk:Djonni|talk]]) 13:38, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

{{Outdent|:::}} I don't think we can change the [[Special:Upload]] contents without admin rights (if they can even do it). I reported it once but never heard of it since. -- [[User:WardPhoenix|WardPhoenix]] ([[User talk:WardPhoenix|talk]]) 16:02, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

: Can we create a new upload page? That way we can rewrite it as needed. --[[User:His portliness|His portliness]] ([[User talk:His portliness|talk]]) 21:45, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

:: I've had some success asking the devs to fix things like this before, so I think it's worth another shot. I thought about it last night and there's one or two things I'd love to do first; I want to quickly update {{tlx|guild}} and any other that needs this  {{tlx|hero}} perhaps, off the top of my head) so that the image parameter is named {{para|image}} (I've been meaning to do this for some time) so that the instructions are clear and consistent across all the infoboxes. The old names will continue to work, of course. -- [[User:Djonni|Djonni]] ([[User talk:Djonni|talk]]) 04:31, 13 October 2020 (UTC)

::: I have no experience with templates, but I am really curious about how to change the parameter on those two templates without everyone losing their pictures. Also, how do I venture a picture I uploaded? --[[User:His portliness|His portliness]] ([[User talk:His portliness|talk]]) 06:23, 13 October 2020 (UTC)

:::: The change is actually very simple, though without an understanding of how template codes work it'll probably be gibberish, heh. [https://wiki.godvillegame.com/index.php?title=Template%3AGuild&type=revision&diff=121581&oldid=120644 Here's the change to {{tlc|guild}},] if you're interested in looking. -- [[User:Djonni|Djonni]] ([[User talk:Djonni|talk]]) 07:10, 13 October 2020 (UTC)

{{Outdent|::::}} As I am updating pictures in the wiki I find that many of the articles are stubs but are not marked as such. Should I mark them? --[[User:His portliness|His portliness]] ([[User talk:His portliness|talk]]) 10:04, 13 October 2020 (UTC)

: Absolutely, use your own judgement as you go. Make sure to fill in the parameter with the article type (i.e., {{tlc|stub|artifact}}, {{tlc|stub|monster}}, {{tlc|stub|equipment}}, etc) so that people can easily find the relevant [[:Category:Guidelines|guideline]]. Nice work! 😃 -- [[User:Djonni|Djonni]] ([[User talk:Djonni|talk]]) 10:07, 13 October 2020 (UTC)

:: One request that I'd like to make, though. When you upload these pictures, can you please take the time to give their source, and show that you've checked that we can use them here on the Godwiki without problems? Because this wiki is associated with an app that makes money, we need commercial permission to use pictures here, or we risk causing trouble for the Devs. I updated the information on [[:File:Two peaces.jpeg]] after you updated it, you can use it as an example if you like.

:: I know it's a pain, but it helps ensure we're not breaking copyright law, or using an artist's work without permission, which isn't cool. The search link that I put into the {{tlx|picture}} template _*should*_ automatically show only pictures that are free for commercial use, but still.

:: Also, it'll save someone else the trouble if you add the appropriate <code><nowiki>[[Category:...]]</nowiki></code> tag to the image description as well 😊 -- [[User:Djonni|Djonni]] ([[User talk:Djonni|talk]]) 10:16, 13 October 2020 (UTC)

::: I will try. How did you find that info? --[[User:His portliness|His portliness]] ([[User talk:His portliness|talk]]) 16:05, 13 October 2020 (UTC)

:::: I see from the descriptions of your more recent uploads that you've started getting the information just fine, good work. It doesn't have to be as detailed as what I've got, if nothing else, a link to the origin is enough for someone to take a closer look 😊 -- [[User:Djonni|Djonni]] ([[User talk:Djonni|talk]]) 04:50, 14 October 2020 (UTC)

{{Outdent|::::}} How do I add a caption to a picture in an article? I now know how to link the picture, but is there a way to add a caption?

Also, have you messaged the devs about fixing the [[Special:Upload]] page? 
--[[User:His portliness|His portliness]] ([[User talk:His portliness|talk]]) 21:04, 17 October 2020 (UTC)

: {{tqi|How do I add a caption to a picture in an article?}}: If it's in an infobox, some (not all) support a {{para|caption}} parameter. If the infobox you're using doesn't support the parameter and you think it should, start a talk page topic about it. 😊 If you're using <code><nowiki>[[File:...]]</nowiki></code> to insert the image, just put the caption as the last parameter (it doesn't technically have to be last, but that's the usual way) and make sure that the image is being displayed as <code>|thumb|</code>, rather than <code>|frameless|</code>. Detailed descriptions and examples of how to display images can be found [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Images on the Mediwiki wiki,] especially the [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Images#Size_and_frame size and frames] section.

: {{tqi|have you messaged the devs about fixing the [[Special:Upload]] page?}}: Not gotten around to it yet, no, probably today. Have to rewrite it and then tell them precisely what needs to be changed where, and without admin access myself, that needs a bit of attention. -- [[User:Djonni|Djonni]] ([[User talk:Djonni|talk]]) 08:57, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

:: To add to Djonni's picture explanation, [[Creators Manual#Images]] have been slightly updated with examples, hoping it's easier to understand than it was before. --[[User:WardPhoenix|WardPhoenix]] ([[User talk:WardPhoenix|talk]]) 09:54, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

== Edits ==

I noticed you've been cleaning up after me. Can you phrase explain what you were editing so I can incorporate that in future? Also, you keep adding talkback to my page. I thought it was automatic notifications lol, is it not? --[[User:His portliness|His portliness]] ([[User talk:His portliness|talk]]) 16:39, 14 October 2020 (UTC)

: Notifications are automatic if someone makes a change to your own talk page. So, I get an automatic notification when you (or anyone) makes an edit here on this page, but you don't get a notification when I reply. ('Cause it's my talk page.) That's the purpose of {{tlx|talkback}}, a minor change to a person's talk page that points them to where the conversation that was updated is. It can be especially helpful when you're involved in several conversations, or when replies are coming quickly, and the replies are getting collapsed down in [[Special:RecentChanges]].

: As for any changes I've made, you can actually see these yourself in any page's history. I always (as should we all, but most don't) leave some kind of edit summary to explain what I've done, and you can click on any edit in the history list to see what the actual changes where. So, for example, when you uploaded [[:File:Acid reindeer.png]], I noticed that the link to the source was broken. You made an easy mistake, formatting it like an internal pipe link (<code><nowiki>[[Destination page|article text]]</nowiki></code>), instead of an external link (<code><nowiki>[https://url article text]</nowiki></code>). Note the single square brackets, and the space.

: If you open the page's [https://wiki.godvillegame.com/index.php?title=File:Acid_reindeer.png&action=history history tab,] you can see I made two edits: [https://wiki.godvillegame.com/index.php?title=File:Acid_reindeer.png&diff=121674&oldid=121672 the first edit] fixed the link but left the extra final square bracket, which I then [https://wiki.godvillegame.com/index.php?title=File:Acid_reindeer.png&diff=121675&oldid=121674 tidied up] in the next edit.

: The [[Special:Contributions/Djonni]] page will show you every edit I've ever made to every page on the Godwiki, with the edit comment. Each is clickable to see the precise changes made. One caveat to that: when viewing on mobile, whitespace and newlines are a bit buggy when viewing changes, sometimes a space or newline disappears and sometimes a space will be added where there is none.

: I think the only other time I tidied up after something you did was [https://wiki.godvillegame.com/index.php?title=File:Two_peaces.jpeg&diff=prev&oldid=121586 adding the information to Two peaces.jpeg.] -- [[User:Djonni|Djonni]] ([[User talk:Djonni|talk]]) 04:21, 15 October 2020 (UTC)

:: Yeah it was only the twice. I just wanted to understand what I did wrong, thanks for the explanation! --[[User:His portliness|His portliness]] ([[User talk:His portliness|talk]]) 05:05, 15 October 2020 (UTC)

== Talkback  ==

{{talkback|User talk:His portliness|Two Peaces|ts=16:09, 13 October 2020 (UTC)}}

Not sure what the etiquette is about where on the page this goes, but I gotta try it out 😇 -- {{unsigned|His portliness}}

Haha, well, most users here on Godwiki don't have user talk pages long enough to be too worried about etiquette 😂 But for what it's worth, the [[wikipedia:Template:Talkback|talkback template page on Wikipedia]] explains usage and etiquette. Over there the norm is to create a new topic on the talk page, we don't usually bother with that here unless someone's talk page is big enough to make it worthwhile. -- [[User:Djonni|Djonni]] ([[User talk:Djonni|talk]]) 07:51, 15 October 2020 (UTC)

{{talkback|User talk:WardPhoenix/Sandbox|ts=20:36, 18 October 2020 (UTC)}}

== Forcing text to go below a picture ==

When a picture is inserted in middle if an article, how do you force the text to continue below it rather than on the side? 
See in [[Gummy Wyrm]] how the text for attributes starts next to the picture of the level 117 gummy wyrm.
--[[User:His portliness|His portliness]] ([[User talk:His portliness|talk]]) 16:49, 24 October 2020 (UTC)

: Ahh, yeah, this is one of the challenges we have here on the Godwiki. There's nobody who can tinker under the hood here in any meaningful way, so we've had to home-grow some solutions.

: The simplest solution to that problem is to use the home-grown {{tlx|spacer}} template. Add it immediately after the <code><nowiki>[[File:...]]</nowiki></code>, and it will ensure that text on mobile flows correctly around the image with minimal impact to desktop layout. (It does create some unavoidable white space in the page on desktop, but not enough that most people even notice.)

: I did this on the gummy wyrm page, you can [https://wiki.godvillegame.com/index.php?title=Gummy_Wyrm&diff=121979&oldid=107019 see the change] as an example of what I mean. -- [[User:Djonni|Djonni]] ([[User talk:Djonni|talk]]) 19:35, 24 October 2020 (UTC)

:: Not a bad bandaid solution. I'm starting a petition to give users with a large number of edits and two nominations to be reviewed for admin privileges. It would solve some issues. --[[User:His portliness|His portliness]] ([[User talk:His portliness|talk]]) 22:27, 24 October 2020 (UTC)

== Please check out and give feedback ==

I am going to start working on a page for people who want to submit articles but don't know wikitext. Please check out [[User:His portliness/sandbox]] and let me know what you think. Also if I can get {{u|WardPhoenix}} to see this and comment I'd be tickled pink :)
Thanks! --[[User:His portliness|His portliness]] ([[User talk:His portliness|talk]]) 00:22, 30 October 2020 (UTC)

== Advertisement ==

Can you advertise the mainpage and guidebook rewrite? I put a bit in the forums, but I'm not really versed in forum etiquette. Can it be posted in guild forums? How does it work? --[[User:His portliness|His portliness]] ([[User talk:His portliness|talk]]) 16:16, 28 November 2020 (UTC)

: Sorry for the belated reply, I was busy yesterday when you left this and just remembered I hadn't responded!

: Honestly the posts you made are probably just fine. Personally I keep this kind of wiki business well away from the guild forums, as it's often an unwelcome intrusion. Those who are interested in checking the forums will see it if it's posted only in the topically-relevant threads; any more than that is getting obnoxious, and generating ill-will. 😊 So I'd leave it now, and if we get engagement then we get engagement. If we don't, then we learn something from that, too. -- [[User:Djonni|Djonni]] ([[User talk:Djonni|talk]]) 11:47, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

:: For the future, were the forums I posted in considered relevant? I tried to be careful. --[[User:His portliness|His portliness]] ([[User talk:His portliness|talk]]) 11:54, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

::: Oh I don't think you need to worry about it, I think they're fine, though I wouldn't have chosen those threads myself. As a general rule of the forum, I suggest avoiding resurrecting dead old threads unless there's a good reason to. Posting in the Gameplay Questions thread was actually quite a good idea, and other than that I'd have posted it to the Wiki Questions thread and that's it. But like I said, don't worry about that, it's pretty clear you just wanted to make sure it got in front of lots of eyeballs, especially newer players, and there's nothing wrong with that. (There's nothing to say that the way I'd have chosen to do it is necessarily ''better'', it's just one way that I think works well from a little experience on both forums and wiki. 😊) 👍 It was well done, and we'll see if people are interested.-- [[User:Djonni|Djonni]] ([[User talk:Djonni|talk]]) 12:15, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

== Guidebook update ==

Can I get some feedback about the writing clarity and style of the guidebook? I am working on it now, and I posted a sample piece on [[Godwiki Guidebook/sandbox]]. 

Thanks --[[User:His portliness|His portliness]] ([[User talk:His portliness|talk]]) 16:01, 1 December 2020 (UTC)