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== Templates for he-or-she in articles ==
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__TOC__
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== Encouraging use of user talk pages ==
  
I had a bad idea, which I didn't think through, and took too far. So, here you go: a set of templates to allow The [[Great Random]] to choose the gender of the pronouns in your GodWiki writing!
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So, I've written [[User:FeRDNYC/User Talk Message|this message]], which I'm thinking of going around and (manually) placing on the User talk pages of everyone whose User: page is redirected to the main-article space, to point out that they won't receive talk-page message notifications unless they use their corresponding user talk page.
  
In brief:
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(This covers two types of users:)
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# Those with user talk pages like [[User talk:BlueStapler]], [[User talk:Hershey Almighty]], etc. that are redirected to [[Talk:BlueStapler]], [[Talk:Hershey Almighty]], etc.
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# Users like [[User:Hairplug4men]], [[User:EJ Rose]], etc. with redirected User pages, who have no redirect for their user talk page.
  
* {{Tlx|He-or-She}}: You'll get either <code>He</code> or <code>She</code>, chosen at <small>kinda-</small>random.
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Basically it's about 50 people, I have a whole list. '''Most''' of them are probably not active users, but I'd plan to contact them all regardless. If they never see it, oh well. If they do, then great.
* {{Tlx|he-or-she}}: You'll get either <code>he</code> or <code>she</code>, chosen at <small>kinda-</small>random.
 
  
If you're with me so far, I'll assume you can extrapolate to understand the following templates too:
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I just wanted to solicit feedback before I start.
  
* {{Tlx|Him-or-Her}} and {{Tlx|him-or-her}}
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With [[Special:ExpandTemplates]], you can see what the message would look like when it's placed on {{u|Djonni}}'s talk page (as an example). Click the following url:
* {{Tlx|His-or-Hers}} and {{Tlx|his-or-hers}}
 
* {{Tlx|Hero-or-Heroine}} and {{Tlx|hero-or-heroine}}
 
* {{Tlx|Heroes-or-Heroines}} and {{Tlx|heroes-or-heroines}}
 
  
Every one of these can take the optional parameter {{para|or|<var>anything at all</var>}} (as in, for example, {{Tlx|he-or-she|or{{=}}1}}). If  {{para|or|<var>anything</var>}} is present, you'll instead get either <code>he or she</code> or <code>she or he</code> instead.
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{{fullurl:Special:ExpandTemplates|wpInput=%7b%7bsafesubst:User:FeRDNYC/User+Talk+Message%7d%7d&wpContextTitle=User+talk:Djonni}}
  
These are safe to use inline with combining forms. As in: <code>Now {{Tl|he-or-she}}'s the winner!</code> will produce the expected <code>Now he's the winner!</code> or <code>Now she's the winner!</code>.
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You'll see the formatted message at the bottom of the page. -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 01:51, 17 February 2019 (UTC)
  
There's more information (and an important note about an error I can't fix, which could cause you to panic unnecessarily) in the [[Template:He-or-she/Documentation|documentation for <nowiki>{{he-or-she}}</nowiki>]] (and if you can fix that error, brilliant!).
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::It seems some people keeps on redirect their user page to another page for some reasons, tried to leave messages but it don't seem to reach through. Well it's not really a serious issue but still happens. --[[User:WardPhoenix|WardPhoenix]] ([[User talk:WardPhoenix|talk]]) 16:03, 12 March 2019 (UTC)
  
'''''Great, [[Djonni]], but what's the point?'''''
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::: Honestly, though, that's ''fine'' and if people want to do it then more power to 'em. (There are all sorts of reasons why someone might want to, including '''intending''' their user page to be editable by other people. That's the reason {{user|Djonni}} specifically gives on his [[User talk:Djonni|talk page]].) If people want to keep a "god" page in the article namespace, as long as it's properly categorized no harm done. It's ''only'' when the corresponding talk page isn't redirected '''back''' to User talk: space that there's a down side. But it works just fine to maintain a non-<code>User:Foo</code> userpage at <code>Foo</code>, with a <code>Talk:Foo</code> page that redirects to <code>User talk:foo</code>, and doing that means they won't miss notifications. -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 20:49, 12 March 2019 (UTC)
  
Rather than every single wiki page using ''he'' (or even ''he or she'') as a default choice, this can allow you to have the choice made for you as to what gender will be used in an article. These templates will ''consistently'' choose the same pronoun for a given page; you can be sure that it will consistently choose the same {{he-or-she}}, {{him-or-her}}, {{his-or-hers}}, {{hero-or-heroine}}, etc, and won't switch unexpectedly between them. Then, if you copy-paste the same wiki-code into another page (or transclude it), it will be consistent with ''that'' page. Or, if you prefer, just use it to set an article gender once, and follow that gender choice through the rest of the text, whatever you like. It's a 50/50 diceroll for the gender of a page, to use however you want.
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:::: Sorry, the example-message URL above was "down" for a couple of weeks, as I'd repurposed the page in question to do canvassing for the JanuWiki post-mortem and forgot to set it back afterwards. Anyway, it's working again now. -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 16:54, 13 March 2019 (UTC)
  
'''''If you want more'''''
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::::: I'm joining this conversation pretty late, and [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] hasn't been around the wiki since April... does anyone know if he went ahead with the plan? I think it's a very good idea, speaking from my own experience with an unredirected talk page! -- [[User:Djonni|Djonni]] ([[User talk:Djonni|talk]]) 09:03, 12 September 2019 (UTC)
  
I'm done with this collection of templates for now (it was a ''much'' larger set that I first expected already), but if people indicate they would like to use templates like this in a more use cases, these further templates could be made pretty easily:
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I don't think he end up doing it, but I could be wrong.--[[User:WardPhoenix|WardPhoenix]] ([[User talk:WardPhoenix|talk]]) 13:29, 12 September 2019 (UTC)
  
* {{Tlf|God-or-Goddess}} and corresponding lowercases, plurals, and possessives (a full paradigm of 6 templates altogether)
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:Yeah, alright. I found his draft at [[User:FeRDNYC/User Talk Message]]. I think it's a bit wordy personally, and gets a little lost in the weeds about the history of notifications on mediawiki sites, and needs a heavy edit. But I think his idea is really good and we should work up a better draft and go ahead with it.
* The inverted order templates, for when you want to (e.g.) refer to a secondary character, ''he'', that your primary protagonist, ''she'', interacts with. These would be structured as {{Tlf|She-or-He}}, etc. That set expands out to another 10 templates, plus 6 more for {{Tlf|Goddess-or-God}}
 
  
I'll do the work if there's an indication that anyone likes this idea and would want to use them! :)
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:It's a shame he isn't around at the moment (I'll leave him a talkback regardless!) because he went to the trouble of compiling a list of the affected users and we don't have it! I'll have to do that myself. -- [[User:Djonni|Djonni]] ([[User talk:Djonni|talk]]) 15:07, 12 September 2019 (UTC)
  
'''''Dude, they're ''still'' binary genders.'''''
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== Theming or Other Event Brainstorms ==
  
Yeah, I know. ''All'' of Godville is binary gendered, and it's out-of-scope for me to fix that with a couple of cute little templates. Sorry. If you can propose a ''sensible'' way that I can promote inclusion of non-binary gender anywhere then I'm honestly all ears, I don't have any ideas, good ''or'' bad. But this at least offers something to erode the monotony of male-gendered content on the GodWiki. And hey, since I haven't built the {{Tlf|she-or-he}} counterpart templates, I guess by default I'm also not promoting heteronormativity, so... Yeah, there's that.
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{{u|FeRDNYC}} makes a really good point above that two big events a year would be amazing, but that there's also opportunities for smaller events. With the basis that JanuWiki should now be an annual event, perhaps this should be a list of other event or drive ideas (big and small) that we could do, to figure out how we could space things to still get necessary stuff done. -- [[User:SourceRunner|SourceRunner]] ([[User talk:SourceRunner|talk]]) 17:37, 23 March 2019 (UTC)
  
Okay, I'm gonna go do something else now. If you have questions, comments, criticism, or requests, please let me know, here, [[Talk:Djonni|here]], or by direct message on Godville. -- [[User:Djonni|Djonni]] ([[User talk:Djonni|talk]]) 13:46, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
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* '''JanuWiki 2020: Year of the WikiGnome/GodWikiStmas''' -- Big event. Next JanuWiki. Starts when? Ends January 31, 2020. Wrap-up ends February 29, 2020. Theming granularity? Process certainties?
  
: I've used the {{Tlx|he-or-she}} family of templates in today's update to the [[Template:Featured|Featured Article]] on the main page. It should read fairly seamlessly, and give a concrete example of how it might be used. You'll also note that when appearing on the [[Main Page]] and in the original [[Template:Featured]] page the templates render as <code>he</code> in both places. So speaketh the [[Great Random]]!
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* '''Guidelines and Guide Resources Drive'''
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(Please expand)
  
: If there are any issues with these templates in the Featured Article at all, I encourage you to [https://wiki.godvillegame.com/index.php?title=Template:Featured&action=edit&undoafter=88986&undo=88987 undo the edit] where I put them in, and to [https://wiki.godvillegame.com/index.php?title=Talk:Main_Page&action=edit&section=9 explain the problem] here for us. -- [[User:Djonni|Djonni]] ([[User talk:Djonni|talk]]) 10:56, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
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* '''Easter Interlink Special''' -- Small event. EIS Eternal would be willing to sponsor a small wiki event during the Easter week or two weeks, with the object of adding links between pages on GodWiki (with reasonable reasons for doing so). One of the wiki strengths is the ability to create an ecosystem of lore, and the best way to explore that is following links between pages. So there could be the a specific event that GodWiki editors and content creators each chose a pair of pages to interlink, and write the lore between them that explains their relationships in the ecosystem and links the two. A report to the "Help Request" page when finished a pairing would make the pair's linker eligible for a reward of some sort after EIS checks that it has been done and does make sense.
  
:: {{m|idea}} It wouldn't be difficult to implement a parameter {{para|daily|<var>anything</var>}} that will switch the gender every day. I kind of like that idea, it's perfect for use cases like the Main Page etc. -- [[User:Djonni|Djonni]] ([[User talk:Djonni|talk]]) 11:18, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
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* '''Trans-Lore-Ation''' -- Small event. A lot of Godville lore is in the forums and tucked away in little sections of personal chronicles. As players, we in common tend to "know" this lore to be true, but not have it on GodWiki. How about a small event where people scavenger-hunt their favorite descriptions of towns, taverns, monsters, and Godville myths from the older parts of forums and the crannies of guild and personal pages, then add excerpts and possible links to the applicable pages in GodWiki.
  
::: {{m|done}} The existing set of templates now support a parameter, {{para|daily|<var>anything</var>}}, which switches the gender for the text each day. If you want to see it in action, the current (at the time of this note) [[Template:Featured|Featured Article]] snippet on the [[Main Page]] is now using it, and so each day when the cache of the Main Page is refreshed, the text of the Featured Article will change gender. (I am here assuming that the cache is refreshed daily. That may not be the case; a couple of days observation will reveal the real behaviour.)
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* '''Stub It Out''' -- Large event. Survey what articles with the "Stub" tag are still stubs, and remove tags where appropriate. Expand articles that are still stubs.
  
::: {{m|thankyou}} Also, after some effort by the talented {{god|FerdNYC}}, the error described in the docs is no longer an issue. I'll update the docs to explain how the template behaves before a new page is saved.
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* '''"Wherefore ART Thou?"''' -- Large event(?). Adding art to the "picture needed" category articles. Some artists need a long time to plan, so this may need to be a slow or multi-phase event.
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: Could be associated with the stub event maybe?
  
::: Finally, both of these changes make the creation of the inverted template set (<code>{{Tlf|she-or-he}}</code> et cetera) a must. So I'll get to work on that too. (Probably before I update the docs, so I only gotta do that once.) I think I'll make them as essentially wrappers for the current set, though, using a new {{para|reverse|<var>anything</var>}} option, so that improvements are less arduous. (Perhaps I should simply implement a master function (<code>{{Tlf|m-or-f}}</code>?) which takes {{para|male|<var>him</var>}} and {{para|female|<var>her</var>}} text inputs? Then behaviour changes would be completely consistent to the entire set. Hmmm.) -- [[User:Djonni|Djonni]] ([[User talk:Djonni|talk]]) 13:15, 3 November 2018 (UTC)
 
  
:::: {{m|done}} Instead of making an entire set of {{tlf|she-or-he}}, each of the gender-selection templates now supports the {{para|invert|<var>anything</var>}} parameter to switch the focus of the gender when required to write sensible sentences. More detail and examples are given in the documentation for the {{tl|m-or-f}} template which is now the basis of the whole set (and can be used to construct your own God-or-Goddess or any function you like. More info in the docs.)
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::: Sounds like there is some good ideas ready for the oven. I'd say that if you want to throw an event, just go for it. Create a page for it and allow us to help for the preparation.
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:::Maybe we should make like a planner for upcomming events. By the way, talks about upcomming event may be more appropriate on the main talk
  
:::: Oh, and while writing the docs I realised I'd missed the possessive adjectives, so I've added {{tl|his-or-her}} and {{tl|His-or-Her}} to the set. So now, {{he-or-she|daily=1}} can hold {{his-or-her|daily=1|invert=1}} hand in the moonlight, and make sense.
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::: As for JanuWiki2020 (or GodWikiStmas maybe), I'd say we have the time to see it coming. Let's care of other event before.
  
:::: I'm going to start subtly including these templates in some key places around the GodWiki, especially for content in highly-visible places like the Main Page. But they're there for everyone's use, so if you want to, enjoy!
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::: --[[User:WardPhoenix|WardPhoenix]] ([[User talk:WardPhoenix|talk]]) 23:55, 25 March 2019 (UTC)
  
:::: Please leave any relevant comments, questions, or requests here. For now, I consider this little template project concluded. :) Cheers -- [[User:Djonni|Djonni]] ([[User talk:Djonni|talk]]) 17:05, 3 November 2018 (UTC)
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:::: As another idea for a possible event (I don't even know if it would be considered big or small), [[:Category:Pictures needed]] is up to 314 entries. That's 314 ''existing'' articles (primarily ones that use {{tlx|Monster}}, {{tlx|Artifact}}, or {{tlx|Equipment}}) which don't have an image to go with their subject. Trimming that list down a bit could also be a good way to get non-writers involved in creating wiki content. -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 06:39, 26 March 2019 (UTC)
  
{{outdent|:::::}} {{tqi|If you can propose a ''sensible'' way that I can promote inclusion of non-binary gender anywhere then I'm honestly all ears|q=yes}} Personally I've become pretty big on singular "they" (and equivalent forms), for the general case of genderless pronoun usage. And it doesn't even require any templates! 😉
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::::: Oh, yes, and [[:Category:Stubs]] is up to 552 articles that (in theory) need fleshing-out.
  
You do have to get used to reading things like, "The hero brushed themself off and continued on their way," which parses pretty weird at first. Also, '''holy ''wow''''' do some people get irrationally pissed off at that usage, accusing you of everything from PC capitulation to eroding the fabric of society. But I say screw those people, since they insist on being <nowiki>{{dicks-and-or-vaginas}}</nowiki>. -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 13:07, 4 November 2018 (UTC)
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::::: I say "in theory" because some of them may not ''really'' be stubs, having been expanded since they were tagged that way. In the "Advanced options" at the bottom of the [[Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-rendering|appearance preferences]] is the option "Threshold for stub link formatting". It takes a length (in bytes) an article's source must be so it's not considered a stub. Links to all articles shorter than that threshold will be colored with a darker shade of red than the standard {{fake redlink|redlink}} coloring.
  
: (Note that my example also requires the reader to consider "hero" a genderless noun, which is a topic about which there has been plenty of debate, and strong arguments made on both sides.) -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 13:21, 4 November 2018 (UTC)
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::::: I currently have that preference set to 1000 bytes, and still some of the items in [[:Category:Stubs]] are colored blue. It's certainly ''possible'' for an article that's over 1000 bytes long to also be a stub, but it's also possible that there's already plenty of content there and the stub designation is outdated / overzealous. I'd say maybe 10-15% of the category's members show non-stub link coloring. -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 07:00, 26 March 2019 (UTC)
  
:: Oh I absolutely agree on "they", but as you also pointed out, it's not, erm... ''universally'' agreed upon. ;) The genderlessness of "hero" is also interesting, but since all of Godville differentiates between {{heroes-or-heroines|daily=1}} and {{heroes-or-heroines|daily=1|invert=1}}, I feel like defaulting to 'hero' in the Goville context is defaulting to male-focussed language.
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:::::: These are great ideas for events, {{u|WardPhoenix}} and {{u|FeRDNYC}}. I've added them to the bullet point list above, and tried to evaluate them as large or small, based on your descriptions. Please feel free to expand or change what's in the bullet list.
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:::::: {{u|WardPhoenix}}, good suggestion about the planner/calendar for events. Is something like that possible in GodWiki, {{u|FeRDNYC}}? --[[User:SourceRunner|SourceRunner]] ([[User talk:SourceRunner|talk]]) 15:21, 26 March 2019 (UTC)
  
:: But! If any editor wishes to, ''they'' are welcome to use any language they like when describing or failing to describe the gender of any characters. Of course. :) -- [[User:Djonni|Djonni]] ([[User talk:Djonni|talk]]) 14:09, 4 November 2018 (UTC)
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::::::: {{tqb|I'd say that if you want to throw an event, just go for it. Create a page for it and allow us to help for the preparation.|WardPhoenix}}
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::::::: I would agree with that, with one small adjustment: When you decide you ''definitely '''are''''' throwing an event, creating a page for it would be the first step in preparing for it, and can serve as the formal announcement of the upcoming event.  
  
::: [[Image:cross.png]] "Not that there's anything wrong with that!"
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::::::: I think {{u|Djonni}} worked up to [[JanuWiki 2019]] exactly the right way (whether intentionally or by pure luck): He put out feelers on the forums and in a proposal here at [[Talk:Main Page]], and used those discussions to solicit feedback and take the community's temperature on the idea. Then once he was sure there was sufficient interest that he could commit to definitely doing an event, he pulled the trigger on creating the event page, at which point he had someplace he could link to as a "more information" resource when he made the official announcement(s) about the upcoming event.
::: [[Image:tick.png]] "No, of course not!" -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 19:57, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
 
  
== Guild infoboxes now automatically link to guild pages ==
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::::::: At any stage of planning, there's always the possibility that an event could end up getting cancelled for lack of involvement or interest. Things happen. But that risk can be minimized by getting at least a core team on board ''before'' putting a lot of work into constructing an event framework for a "maybe" or "possible" event. -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 14:43, 27 March 2019 (UTC)
  
[[User:Djonni|Djonni]] had the excellent idea to have {{tl|Guild}} generate links to guild pages ''automatically'', instead of requiring a {{para|stats}} argument to provide the URL. So, that's now in place, and a lot of Guild articles should contain '''Guild Page:''' links that didn't have them before.
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Moved this to the main page as it is more appropriate place and also easier to reach (yeah I'm lazy to reach for januwiki page every time on my phone). By the way I think the EIS event would be quite interesting, and as easter is coming i'd suggest we start thinking about it if you really want to kick it.
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On a side note, I don't think a guideline event would be appropriate. Guidelines are supposed to be wrote by experimented and active users for beginners. That's more something we have to work on with experimented users I'd say.
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-- [[User:WardPhoenix|WardPhoenix]] ([[User talk:WardPhoenix|talk]]) 23:02, 26 March 2019 (UTC)
  
If for some reason you would prefer '''not''' to have that link shown on a guild article, passing a {{para|stats|no}} argument to the {{tl|Guild}} template will disable the automatic link generation.
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: That's a fair point, re: the Guidelines. I guess it depends how broadly you define "event". Certainly, you're right, guidelines-updates aren't the sort of free-for-all activity where we'd put out a call to the entire Godville user community for participation. Maybe "an effort", or "a sprint" (to employ some of my least-favorite software development jargon), ''among'' those experienced users.
  
And if the automatic link is generated ''wrong'' for some reason, {{para|stats|<var>url</var>}} still works to manually supply a URL. (This also means that older guild articles that include a {{para|stats|<var>url</var>}} argument will continue to function same as always. But {{para|stats|<var>url</var>}} is no longer '''necessary''' to have a '''Guild Page:''' link show up.)
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: That being said...
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:# A ''lot'' of what's lacking in the current Guidelines articles just comes down to formatting, copyediting, structure, and layout fixes — things that ''could'' be done by almost anyone, especially with guidance, as there's no real expertise needed. (However, as they '''also''' need major content updates, they're definitely not ''entirely'' fixable by casual editors alone. But they could be vastly improved.)
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:# Because (as you say) the target audience for the Guidelines is inexperienced users, in my experience it's a huge mistake to write them '''without''' any input from users at or near that level. One of the things I learned in software development is that you never have the senior programmer, the one who wrote most of the code and knows every aspect of the software inside-and-out, write the instruction manual. If they try, 90% of the time it'll end up being unintelligible to the "average users" it's supposed to be written for. <p>(It's the same reason you NEVER sign up for a freshman-level "Intro to Whatever" class if it's taught by that department's most senior, most published, most brilliant researcher. Very few people whose knowledge of a topic is at that level will be capable of "dumbing things down" sufficiently that they can effectively teach it to students who have virtually no background in the subject. Everything will go right over their heads.)</p>
  
For most Guild articles, {{para|stats}} should '''not''' be included in the template arguments anymore. It's easier to just let the template generate the link automatically. (It's up to the editors of existing guild articles, whether you remove {{para|stats}} if it's already set.)
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: The two trickiest problems in documentation don't have anything to do with knowledge or accuracy of information: The first is figuring out exactly where your target audience is at in terms of background knowledge and skill level, so that you know which things need to be explained, vs. what they probably already know so you don't waste their time repeating it. The other problem, then, is being ''able'' to explain things at that level, without leaving out any of the information they need because it's just implicitly assumed or seems "obvious" to someone with more experience.  
  
The other link parameter, {{para|forum|<var>url</var>}}, is still required if you want to display a forum link. There's no way the template can automatically determine the correct URL for guild forums. -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 12:53, 4 November 2018 (UTC)
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: ...But, all that being said I agree that Guidelines updates wouldn't make sense as an "event" in the JanuWiki mold, where we try to solicit come-one-come-all participation from as many users as possible. Heck, they may not be a very good fit for any sort of organized "group effort" at all — our best bet may be for someone to eventually just dive in and start making [[wikipedia:WP:BOLD|Bold]] changes to define an updated, improved structure for the content. Even if they only update a single Guideline article, once there's an example to work off of, other editors can pitch in to apply the same changes to the rest of the Guidelines. (That sort of example-based, follow-the-leader model is how ''most'' content-wide changes propagate here, really. Djonni created the {{tlx|hero or heroine}} template set, but he's responsible for only a handful of edits that applied those templates to article content.) -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 14:43, 27 March 2019 (UTC)
  
== Decorations were hung on the artifacts with care ==
 
  
'''''Note:''' this template has since been renamed more generally as {{tlx|Decorate item}}''
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== The Monstrous Recapitalisation of 2019 ==
  
Inspired by the [[Halloween 2018]] article's extensive use of example pumpkin-decorated artifact names, and by the fact that just ''writing'' e.g. "🎃[[golden pumpkin]]🎃" doesn't quite look right (the pumpkins are too close to the text), I've created a new set of templates specifically to produce these "decorated" strings, but with nicer formatting and line-wrapping protection.
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So, the way the game handles capitalisation after a hyphen in a monster name has changed recently. The Ideabox has always automatically capitalised monster ideas, but it didn't historically treat a hyphen as a word break, and it does now... Mostly. A word after a hyphen will be capitalised if it is at least 3 (or maybe it's 4) characters long. This is an attempt to make sure that articles and short prepositions in hyphenated words are not capitalised, according to traditional title caps rules. And, of course, ER editors can manually change capitalisation in cases where that simple rule hasn't quite got something right, as they always could.
  
The general-purpose template is {{tlx|decorate artifact}}, but more convenient wrappers have been created for known Godville decorations:
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At the same time, existing monster names in the game have been recapitalised to match normal English typography. The recapitalisation seems to follow these rough rules:
  
* {{tlx|pumpkins}}: for decorating Halloween artifacts, e.g.
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# Where something after a hyphen was already capitalised, it has stayed that way (the only changes are to previously lowercase letters immediately after a hyphen)
:: {{tlx|pumpkins|<nowiki>[[golden pumpkin]]</nowiki>|}} → {{pumpkins|[[golden pumpkin]]}}
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# Articles and prepositions after a hyphen remain lowercase, as they would in a title (e.g. [[Monster-in-Law]]), but not entirely consistently (see point 1, e.g. [[Missing-In-Action Figure]])
* {{tlx|party}}: for decorating celebration-related artifacts (like the anniversary specials), e.g.
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# Word fragments, e.g. [[Arrgh-onaut]], remain uncapitalised, but not entirely consistently (see point 1, e.g. [[Flame-Ingo]])
:: {{tlx|party|<nowiki>[[3000-days gold coin]]</nowiki>|}} → {{party|[[3000-days gold coin]]}}
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# Otherwise, words after a hyphen have been capitalised pretty consistently.
  
Templates for additional standard decorations will be added as they appear, or [[Template talk:Decorate artifact|upon request]]. -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 15:39, 7 November 2018 (UTC)
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This post here is essentially to signal that there will be some monster pages that need to be moved to their new capitalisation, and edits being made to [[List of Monsters]] as well as monster articles as required. I'm going to do a lot of this, but even taking advantage of some extra external resources I probably won't catch everything, and there's a chance I might move or correct things to a ''wrong'' capitalisation.
  
:* {{tlx|turkey}} was aded for Thanksgiving, and produces the first one-sided decoration:
+
'''If you see a hyphenated monster name in the game,''' and that monster is capitalised differently on the Godwiki, then we need to fix it! It can be a bit of work to make those changes, though, so if you spot something wrong but don't have the opportunity (or perhaps knowledge) to do it yourself, please leave a note about it (right here, or on the monster article's talk page if that's easier) and another editor should get the changes done ''mañana''.
::: {{tlx|turkey|<nowiki>[[roasted turkey]]</nowiki>}} → {{turkey|[[roasted turkey]]}} -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 04:13, 4 December 2018 (UTC)
 
  
== A new link template for Guild pages ==
+
That said... if you ''think'' you don't have the skills you're probably wrong. '''Be Bold''', try to do it yourself, and if someone can see you're struggling or not getting it right they'll clean up after you. No muss, no fuss, no worries. It's really not ''more'' work for an experienced editor to fix a mistake someone else makes, than for that editor to do the work in the first place, so you're never creating more work for someone else!
  
A new linking template, {{tlx|Guild link}}, has been added to the wiki. Use it to conveniently link to the official Godville page for the named [[Guilds|Guild]].
+
A brief checklist for myself and others:
 +
* If the monster has an article:
 +
** The article must be moved to the correct name. (Looking at original article, the "More" menu in the top right has the "Move" action. <span style="font-size:small;">''Is this also true on mobile? Can't recall and can't currently check.''</span>)
 +
** Text in article body corrected as needed. {{tlc|Monster}} infobox ''should'' be fine, as it uses the {{tlc|PAGENAME}} [[mediawikiwiki:Help:Magic words|magic word]] by default, but double-check for {{para|title}} parameters or unusual description text.
 +
* [[List of Monsters]] to be updated.
 +
* Check for a relevant [[:Category:Navigational Boxes|navbox]] and update. (A text search will ''only'' include the main namespace by default, but hitting 'Everything' or 'Advanced' in the results will allow searching of templates.)
 +
* If time permits, search for text in pages with the old capitalisation. Put quotes <code>"..."</code> around the name to get the right results. (Two birds with one stone: correcting the capitalisation and an opportunity to increase interlinking if the monster has an article.)
 +
* If time permits (lowest priority though, I think), update [[Omnibus List]]. The main users of the Omnibus are crossword solvers, to whom capitalisation is irrelevant.
  
The same way: {{tlx|God|<var>God name</var>|}} => {{God|<var>God name</var>}}
+
(Please feel free to add to or alter that checklist if I've missed something.)
  
You can now use: {{tlx|Guild link|<var>Guild name</var>|}} => {{Guild link|<var>Guild name</var>}}
+
Obviously, this is a fairly low priority and on-going project, so it'll take a while and a bit of work to get done together. :) -- [[User:Djonni|Djonni]] ([[User talk:Djonni|talk]]) 08:44, 12 September 2019 (UTC)
  
(Hopefully the emoji shield in front of the Guild's name shows up everywhere. If not, in particular if you see an empty rectangle or any sort of question-mark symbol, please reply and let me know — include the details of what browser, device, operating system, etc. you're using.)
+
===Put monsters' name here if you can't update===
  
For example: {{tlx|Guild link|Bobius|}} => {{Guild link|Bobius}}
+
== JanuWiki 2020 Ideas and Planning ==
  
There's also a plaintext mode, just add {{para|plain|yes}}. {{tlx|Guild link|Eternal|plain{{=}}yes}} => {{Guild link|Eternal|plain=yes}}.
+
Heya once again! I did a bit of poking around in the JanuWiki 2019 page, and couldn't find any plans for what the next theme is gonna be. It never hurts to start planning early, so I kinda decided to start gathering a few ideas. After looking around the internet for some potential New Year themes, I have three potential suggestions:
 +
# A glasses/vision-related theme. It's going to be 2020 - it shall be the year of perfect vision and clarity!
 +
# Something related to time. Similar reason as the first one (mostly because I already anticipate all of the 'hindsight is 20/20' puns that the year will bring), but there's also the whole 'marking of another year going by'. Sounds a bit on the melodramatic side, though.
 +
# Chinese zodiac time! Now, there isn't exactly a whole lot of potential rodent-themed articles on here (2020 is the year of the Rat, after all), but I did some cross-referencing! Apparently there are Chinese elemental years too, and next year's element is going to be Metal. So, Metal/Rat articles?
 +
I know it's really early, but I really want to help the next JanuWiki be like the first one (cuz seriously, the sheer number of content was really amazing + fun to read)! What do you guys think? --[[User:Arcanedreamer|Arcanedreamer]] ([[User talk:Arcanedreamer|talk]]) 02:47, 22 September 2019 (UTC)
  
(That's used in the {{tlx|Guild}} infobox template, to generate the '''Guild Page:''' links.)
+
: [[User:Arcanedreamer|Arcanedreamer]], I actually think that those are pretty great ideas! I for one have try to give JanuWiki 2020 any serious thought, but using a 20/20 theme is a brilliant thought!
  
Full details, including available parameters and more examples, are in the documentation at {{tlx|Guild link}}. -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 15:53, 11 November 2018 (UTC)
+
: One (really great) thing that happened with JanuWiki 2019 is that as the event rolled on we had to expand and extend it to new themes, bring more ideas into the event, and keep offering don't exciting new ideas for people who just didn't get inputted enough by the first tranche of suggestions. So having a handful of interesting, related-ish, but quite diverse options is really valuable. I think working with the 20/20 concepts you've suggested first (vision, hindsight, foresight, time) is an excellent focal point (pun intended), with metal and rodent articles tucked up our sleeves for when/if we need to grow the theme. For 2019, we started all about beer, and from brainstorming and adapting we added bosses, lions, tigers, and bears over the month. So we've seen that a diverse and interesting collection of ideas can really help catch the interest of folks who might only like one part of it.
  
== And a new link template for Pantheon positions... ==
+
: Later today I'll do some surveying to see what missing or stubbed articles will be captured by these themes, and that will give us a more concrete notion of how they would look for an event! -- [[User:Djonni|Djonni]] ([[User talk:Djonni|talk]]) 08:38, 22 September 2019 (UTC)
  
... just to complete the set!
+
::Themes' Ideas looks good. I wonder if doing a survey on the forums could be usefull to see if people would be willing to participate in the event, and what they think could be improved compared to previous ones. --[[User:WardPhoenix|WardPhoenix]] ([[User talk:WardPhoenix|talk]]) 18:33, 22 September 2019 (UTC)
  
{{Tl|Pantheon link}} can now be used to create a nicely formatted (or plain) link to a Pantheon on the Godville game page, and can optionally link directly to a specific position in that pantheon. It is expected to be used primarily on [[:Category:Gods|God]] or [[:Category:Guilds|Guild]] pages, though be aware that if your pantheon position is volatile you may prefer not to link directly to it.
+
::: I'm actually really happy you guys like my ideas! So, thing is, I already did [[User:Arcanedreamer#Art_Stuff|a bit of artwork]] in anticipation of JanuWiki 2020. I'm perfectly fine with doing a couple more items in order to make the event look even better, but I'd like to know ahead of time if that's okay. And if so, maybe let me know ASAP if there's any specific items you guys would want so that I don't have to do a rush job at the last minute? --[[User:Arcanedreamer|Arcanedreamer]] ([[User talk:Arcanedreamer|talk]]) 19:49, 22 September 2019 (UTC)
  
So now, just as {{tlx|God|<var>God name</var>}} => {{God|<var>God name</var>}}<br />
+
:::: So, I got around to that thing I said I would do yesterday... I've started a survey of possible articles for the two theme groups ('''20/20''' and '''Metal Rat''') at [[Djonni/Shared sandbox]] (note that I've intentionally kept that out of my <code>User:</code> area so that everybody can tinker with, improve or extend it). I was pretty inclusive about what I captured for the 20/20 theme, and only just started on the Metal Rat articles (I've saved it in progress, I'll carry on and on anon. 🎵🎶''Alalalalalonglonglilonglonglong, sing it''🎶🎵
and {{tlx|Guild link|<var>Guild name</var>}} => {{Guild link|<var>Guild name</var>}},
 
  
now {{tlx|Pantheon link|<var>pantheon</var>}} => {{Pantheon link|pantheon}}
+
:::: I definitely agree [[User:WardPhoenix|WardPhoenix]], we should take this to the forums, but before w're ready to do that we should have a very clear idea of what the theme ideas we're presenting are, I think, so that folks there have some concrete, fully though out and fleshed out things to discuss and contribute to. Let's discuss and refine the articles and concepts a little more together here first!
  
And, more usefully, to link to a specific pantheon position:<br />
+
:::: And for readers who are following this but have not yet joined the conversation &mdash; '''''please''''' share your thoughts, good, bad, or whatever they may be!
{{tlx|Pantheon link|<var>pantheon</var>|15}} => {{Pantheon link|pantheon|15}}.
 
  
As with the shield in {{Tl|Guild link}}, hopefully the trophy emoji appears correctly on any device. Should it not, reply here and let us know, with what browser, device, operating system, etc. you're using.
+
:::: [[User:Arcanedreamer|Arcanedreamer]], whoa, I'm pretty impressed by your artwork there! Personally I think that's a great piece of decoration for the main page announcement, and will probably be useful in places on the main event page too, fantastic work! Something that I discovered doing the theme survey &mdash; '''Did You Know''' that there's actually a [[Steel Rat]] monster in Godville? I feel like the Steel Rat would make an excellent mascot for JanuWiki 2020, regardless of how the theming conversation goes, what do you guys think? Your geometric artwork there is excellent, [[User:Arcanedreamer|Arcanedreamer]], I suspect a Steel Rat is much harder. Do you think it's within your scope? There will probably be some reuse-permitted images we could use, so it's entirely up to you! :) -- [[User:Djonni|Djonni]] ([[User talk:Djonni|talk]]) 14:45, 23 September 2019 (UTC)
  
Some quick examples:
+
::::: [[User:Djonni|Djonni]], I hear a mild challenge in there. I shall accept and prove your skepticism wrong! In all seriousness, though, it sounds like a fun way to push at my pixel art boundaries (I've been doing nothing but inanimate objects so far, ehehe....)! Also, two things - should I go ahead and place whatever JanuWiki 2020 art I end up creating in the sandbox? And are there any other art requests? --[[User:Arcanedreamer|Arcanedreamer]] ([[User talk:Arcanedreamer|talk]]) 15:07, 23 September 2019 (UTC)
  
:{{Tlx|Pantheon link|taming|237}} => {{Pantheon link|taming|237}}
+
It looks like from [[Djonni/Shared sandbox]] that there is already quite the amount of articles found within both them (good work finding them by the way). So now, what? Do we use the forum to see if there is people interested in a potential event before throwing anything and thinking of the form JanuWiki 2020 could take? --[[User:WardPhoenix|WardPhoenix]] ([[User talk:WardPhoenix|talk]]) 13:58, 25 September 2019 (UTC)
:{{Tlx|Pantheon link|savings|20|text{{=}}short}} => {{Pantheon link|savings|20|text=short}}
 
:{{Tlx|Pantheon link|wood|1102|plain{{=}}yes}} => {{Pantheon link|wood|1102|plain=yes}}
 
:{{Tlx|Pantheon link|storytelling|51|text{{=}}none|plain{{=}}yes}} => {{Pantheon link|storytelling|51|text=none|plain=yes}}
 
:<code><nowiki>[[Pantheon of Gratitude]]: '''</nowiki>{{tlp|Pantheon link|gratitude|123|text{{=}}none|plain{{=}}yes}}<nowiki>'''</nowiki></code> => [[Pantheon of Gratitude]]: '''{{Pantheon link|gratitude|123|text=none|plain=yes}}'''
 
  
More details and examples are in the documentation at the {{tl|Pantheon link}} page. Take a quick look there to see how to use it with any pantheon you'd like (though it best suits pantheons where your position is quite stable, as it can't update itself magically with your current position). If you have any questions not covered in the documentation, please feel free to ask, either here or on [[Template talk:Pantheon link]]. -- [[User:Djonni|Djonni]] ([[User talk:Djonni|talk]]) 13:16, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
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:Sorry guys, been a busy week at work! [[User:Arcanedreamer|Arcanedreamer]], your [[:File:SteelRat.png|Steel Rat]] is great! I'm very impressed! :D
  
== Sign template updates requiring page edits ==
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:Yeah, [[User:WardPhoenix|WardPhoenix]], if you guys are happy with the lists at [[Djonni/Shared sandbox]] then we should probably take it to the forum. I'll create a dedicated talk topic for JanuWiki 2020 ideas and planning, so that folks don't feel like they need to wade through months of discussion above to get up to speed. -- [[User:Djonni|Djonni]] ([[User talk:Djonni|talk]]) 15:48, 27 September 2019 (UTC)
  
{{Sign|title=This template needs to be fixed|text=These fixes will require the editing of Guild articles by a non-Guild-member (specifically, me — [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]]), which is normally not permitted by the Godwiki rules. I request that everyone understand the reasons behind this one-time, limited violation of those rules.}}
+
::Well, I just posted an ''offensively'' long message on the forums ({{cite forum|308|1274998}}) so if anyone's masochistic enough to actually read it, welcome to the conversation! 😅 -- [[User:Djonni|Djonni]] ([[User talk:Djonni|talk]]) 17:38, 27 September 2019 (UTC)
===The plan===
 
The {{tlx|Sign}} template, which is used to create notices like the one above, has several issues with how its parameters are specified. You can find a long, detailed explanation of those issues at [[Template talk:Sign|the Talk page for the template]], if you're interested. But the important point here is, those issues are going to be fixed. The fixes, however, will affect ''existing'' uses of {{tlx|Sign}} in Godwiki articles.
 
===What this means for you (the editor of an article containing {{tlx|Sign}})===
 
# If your article contains a sign transclusion with parameters like {{tlx|Sign|bordercolor{{=}}red}} or {{tlx|Sign|bgcolor{{=}}#91A3B0}}, those parameters will '''start''' working, where up until now they have been ignored. This will change the appearance of the sign, perhaps in unwanted ways. If so, simply remove the {{para|bgcolor}}, {{para|bordercolor}}, or {{para|outerbordercolor}} arguments so that the sign will use the default values, like it was previously.
 
# If your article contains a transclusion with parameters like {{para|bordercolor|ee8822}}, those parameters will ''break'' due to the changes. If this happens, '''I will fix them for you''', by changing them to e.g. {{para|bordercolor|#ee8822}}. You will not have to do anything. That is the reason for this announcement, and for the request that Guild members understand why a non-member will be editing their Guild page. My changes on any Guild articles will be limited to editing {{tlx|Sign}} parameters '''''only'''''.
 
  
If there are any affected {{tlx|Sign}} transclusions on user pages (it doesn't ''look'' like it, so far), I won't be able to fix them. I'll try to leave explanatory notes on the associated Talk pages, if those cases arise.
+
:::Bold of you to assume that I would think reading a long forum post is a masochistic action. In all seriousness, I think you did a good job doing an early advertisement for the event! Hopefully it'll attract old and new participants alike~! --[[User:Arcanedreamer|Arcanedreamer]] ([[User talk:Arcanedreamer|talk]]) 23:47, 27 September 2019 (UTC)
  
I don't plan to start these changes immediately (I want to give people time to digest this announcement, for one thing), but they will be happening soon and most likely will be completed by the end of the week. If anyone has any objections or issues, you have the floor... -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 21:56, 18 November 2018 (UTC)
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::::So, with the new [[Book of Creation]] update, should we consider a chance in focus to all things related to '''words''', '''books''', and '''writing'''? -- [[User:Djonni|Djonni]] ([[User talk:Djonni|talk]]) 16:53, 9 October 2019 (UTC)
  
: <strike>{{m|partlydone}}</strike>
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:::::Maybe? I mean, on one hand, I think we're fine with the themes we already have - look at how many articles that are already available! On the other hand, people tend to be a lot more hyped up for new things, so there's a pretty good chance that more people would be interested. In the end, I guess it just depends on how big you're expecting this next JanuWiki is gonna be. --[[User:Arcanedreamer|Arcanedreamer]] ([[User talk:Arcanedreamer|talk]]) 02:33, 10 October 2019 (UTC)
: The color-parameter changes are complete. {{tlx|Sign|bgcolor{{=}}|bordercolor{{=}}|outerbordercolor{{=}}}} now accepts '''any''' valid CSS color string, e.g. {{para|bgcolor|red}} or {{para|bordercolor|rgb(100,150,0)}}. If specifying color by hex color value (i.e. <code>#RGB</code> or <code>#RRGGBB</code>), you ''must'' include  the leading <code>#</code> sign.
 
:; Guild pages edited
 
:* [[The Ancestry Knight]]
 
:* [[Lucky God Casino]] (three places)
 
:* [[I AM]] (two places)
 
:* [[Open Bar]]
 
:* [[404]]
 
: The only change that remains to be done is the fix to {{para|imgwidth}}, and the only page that will be affected ''there'' is [[Open Bar]] (again). I'll get to that another time. -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 00:24, 23 November 2018 (UTC)
 
:: {{m|done}}
 
:: Completely done, {{para|imgwidth}} syntax is updated in {{tlx|Sign}} and all three pages which make use of that parameter ([[Open Bar]], [[Template:Godwiki event construction]], and [[Template:Godwiki event review]]) have been modified accordingly. -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 11:52, 12 January 2019 (UTC)
 
  
== Default picture and auto-templating for Artifact and Monster infoboxes ==
+
{{outdent|:::::}}I've done a rapid survey of book and word themed items at [[Djonni/Shared sandbox#Books and words]]. The main takeaway from that is that there's essentially no monsters (the most popular creator category by far) and a huuuge list of artifacts that don't offer the same variety and breadth that the other categories do.
  
Just like {{tlx|Equipment}} since its inception, {{tlx|Artifact}} and {{tlx|Monster}} now have default "generic" images that they will use whenever an image is not supplied via {{para|image|<var>filename</var>}}. They will also (again just like {{tlx|Equipment}}) auto-template those articles as {{tlx|Picture}}-needed, adding them to the [[:Category:Pictures needed|Pictures needed]] hidden category.
+
It might still be nice for us to do ''something'' about books and words with the [[Book of Creation]] update, but I think making it a part of JanuWiki isn't going to create a lot of excitement.
  
To avoid double-templating, I removed the manual {{tlx|Picture}} templating from any {{tlx|Artifact}}-using articles which already had it. (There were only two, [[Orange bag]] and [[Heart warmer]].)
+
And to answer that question, {{u|Arcanedreamer}}, I am anticipating that this JanuWiki will be a little smaller than the last one. But we won't know until we see for ourselves. :) -- [[User:Djonni|Djonni]] ([[User talk:Djonni|talk]]) 06:49, 10 October 2019 (UTC)
  
I tried to also get all of the {{tlx|Monster}} articles which contained manual {{tlx|Picture}} templates. There were far more of those, and I can't promise I didn't miss any. If you see any articles with '''two''' "Pictures needed" hatnotes (that's a message box at the top of the page), please edit the article source to remove the "{{tlx|Picture}}" template, as the infobox is now automatically supplying it. -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 02:45, 23 November 2018 (UTC)
+
===Decoration Questions and Art Requests===
 +
Alrighty, so I noticed that the navboxes for the past GodWiki vents tend to have a neat little picture instead of a simple dot separating the different articles. I'm not entirely sure how that works - is there a way to place our own pics (I.E. some specialized JanuWiki pixel art icons) in there, or are we limited to a preset group of images? I was about to start working on a few icon designs before realizing that I didn't know if we're able to even use them. --[[User:Arcanedreamer|Arcanedreamer]] ([[User talk:Arcanedreamer|talk]]) 05:10, 28 September 2019 (UTC)
  
== Navbar line on navboxes ==
+
:Well when I made {{tlx|navbox items}} I built in quite a bit of flexibility for exactly this kind of reason! :) Using the {{para|bullet}} parameter, you can set the separator between list items to anything you want. We usually use emoji characters for this, which has benefits and drawbacks, but there's no reason why we can't use an image!
 +
:The image that we use in the {{tlx|god}} template for this: {{god|Arcanedreamer}} is rendered as 17x17 pixels, making it just a little taller than the line on most screens. In the wiki software used to run the GodWiki, there's no way to make the size of an image dynamic in any way, so we will have to decide on pixel dimensions to use (and the wiki doesn't have support for any vector image types either, so a small bullet-sized image won't stretch or shrink well on a lot of screens).
 +
:If you think you can come up with some cool tiny bullet images for navbox use, I think that would be great! We can do a bit of experimenting and see how well it works. I'll leave choices about size up to you, but it might be wise to aim for something that's around 12x12 to 8x8, and using transparency if you don't want it to be a square block :)
 +
:To test out how it looks in a navbox list, use this:
  
Now that we have a {{tlx|Navbar}} template (which I imported for use with the new {{tlx|Infobox}} code, though that isn't ready yet), we can have our Navbox templates show links to make them easier to modify. I've installed a Navbar on just {{tlx|Navboxauras}} for now, as an experiment. It's the three letters (for View • Talk • Edit) in the upper left corner that let you access the navbox template more easily:
+
:<code><nowiki>{{navbox items|bullet=[[File:</nowiki><var>Filename.ext</var><nowiki>]]|List item one|List item two|List item three}}</nowiki></code>
  
{{Navboxauras}}
+
:Which should give you something like this:
 +
:{{navbox items|bullet=[[File:Godicon.png|12x12px]]|List item one|List item two|List item three}}
 +
:If you want to play with different render sizes, you can put <code>|12x12px</code> or <code>|10x10px</code> etc in the image options like <code><nowiki>[[File:...|12x12px]]</nowiki></code>. :) -- [[User:Djonni|Djonni]] ([[User talk:Djonni|talk]]) 06:31, 28 September 2019 (UTC)
  
Navbars on ''infoboxes'' tend to have fallen out of favor on MediaWiki sites (and I may still end up disabling them on our new infoboxes, before they're released), because they lead to people who want to update infobox data trying to edit the template ''code'', when they '''should''' be editing the template ''transclusion'' in the article they're reading.
+
== Call for feedback on new {{tl|Usergod}} template ==
 +
{{anchor|Call for feedback on new Usergod template}}{{m|feed}}
  
But with Navboxes, there's nothing to edit in the article, and you ''do'' need to edit the template code to modify them. So, it's a little different. There is still the danger, though, that the links will lead to inexperienced people messing up the Navbox templates more frequently. So I guess that's one reason for experimenting on just one template, first, to see if {{tlx|Navboxauras}} becomes the target of increased problem editing.
+
Hello all!
  
Let me know if anyone has any thoughts or objections. -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 05:25, 25 November 2018 (UTC)
+
This is an official call for anyone interested to test and give feedback on the draft of the new {{tlx|Usergod}} template. If you want to get stuck in straight away, you can leap to the fully documented draft at [[User:Djonni/Template sandbox]].
  
:How about we have a version for Infoboxes that simply omits the 'edit' option? I think there's definitely merit in a clear link directly to the documentation and talk pages for an infobox. -- [[User:Djonni|Djonni]] ([[User talk:Djonni|talk]]) 16:16, 25 November 2018 (UTC)
+
To begin testing the new template straight away, if you already have the Usergod template on your page you can simply replace <code><nowiki>{{Usergod</nowiki></code> with <code><nowiki>{{User:Djonni/Template sandbox</nowiki></code> to see how it will look with the new template.
  
:: Hmm, that's definitely an option technically, so yeah that could be one way to go. -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 05:27, 26 November 2018 (UTC)
+
In short, the {{tl|Usergod}} and {{tl|Usergoddess}} templates haven't been updated since 2013, and they ''really'' need it. We have modernised and made pretty all of the {{tlc|Monster}}, {{tlc|Artifact}}, {{tlc|Equipment}}, etc. infobox templates, and with the lessons we've learned there, it's time to get to work on the big ones: {{tl|Usergod}}, {{tl|Hero}}, and {{tl|Guild}}. This is the first of those to hit the bench.
  
== <strike>Preview</strike> Rollout of new Infoboxes ==
+
In the redesign I have tried to keep to several principles:
  
For a while now, I've been working on adapting the master {{tlx|Infobox}} code from the English Wikipedia for use here at the GodWiki, with the aim being to reimplement our Infoboxes. Using {{tlx|Infobox}} as the base template gives us access to more advanced features and formatting, and gives the infoboxes a more modern and cohesive look.
+
* '''Don't mess up existing pages.''' The Usergod template is currently used on [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Usergod|203 Godwiki pages]]. Many of those pages have made very specific choices about colours, styles, backgrounds, etc. This is why, by default, the new Usergod template will be transparent: the old template has been transparent for over 8 years, and it should be entirely up to you, the template user, how your Usergod infobox looks. Which leads to:
 +
* '''Allow for a large amount of customisation, as simply as possible.''' I have investigated quite deeply (I think) how those existing 203 users of the template have used it, and tried to look at what they wanted but couldn't get from the existing template. The replacement has a large and flexible suite of colouring, styling, and creative options there to use, all of which are completely optional. It can be as elaborate and detailed as you like, or just a quick, simple summary of your most interesting and important features. Whatever you want.
 +
* '''Try not to force any decisions onto you, including gender norms.''' Don't want to be called either God ''or'' Goddess? No problem, set {{para|title|The Great and Powerful}}, or <code>=The Divine</code>, or <code>=Furmeister General</code>, or anything you want. Don't want your minion to be called Hero or Heroine? Great, {{para|herolabel|Champion}}, or <code>=Minion</code>, or <code>=Kōhai</code>, or whatever you like. ''If you see a way to make the template more customisable, please say so, and if I can realistically do so, I shall.''
 +
* '''Expect the unexpected.''' I have not tried to guess everything you'll want to do with the template. Instead, I've tried to make the template capable of doing anything you might want. There are options to create fully customised sections of the infobox, which you could use to: embed your hero(ine)'s details into it; prominently feature forum roleplaying character sheets; proudly display your pets, ark, achievements, skills, pet peeves, anything. People really ''tried'' to get creative with the old Usergod template, and it just didn't allow them to. So, this one does.
  
For this first round I'm focusing only on the three main infoboxes — certainly {{tlx|Town}} would also be updated, and most likely {{tlx|Guild}}, the user infoboxes, etc. as well, but that would all come later.
+
As implied above, updating {{tl|Usergod}} is phase one; after the new Usergod is finalised and put in place, phase two will be {{tl|Hero}}. Depending on the feedback received, my observations of how the new templates are used (or not used), and the level of interest, phase two may also involve designing some additional related templates: {{tlc|Pet}}, {{tlc|Lab boss}}, {{tlc|Ark}}. Then finally, after a ''lot'' of feedback and testing, the {{tl|Guild}} template will be updated. This will be the most difficult and controvertial, as it's the most heavily used template on the Godwiki (at this moment, there are ''exactly'' 500 pages using the Guild template), and for many people, their guild page is the only thing they interact with on Godwiki.
  
There's some initial discussion between [[User:Djonni|Djonni]] and myself at [[Talk:Djonni#Preview Release!]] for anyone interested, but the real point is that I feel like the effort has progressed far enough to seek commentary and input from a wider audience.  
+
Feedback, discussion, and questions about the new template can be given right here, or at [[User talk:Djonni/Template sandbox]]. You'll also find some discussion and feedback from early testers at [[User talk:Djonni]] and [[User talk:WardPhoenix/Sandbox]] if you're interested.
  
Anyone interested is welcome to take a look at [[User:FeRDNYC/Sandbox]], which contains a series of Artifact, Equipment, and Monster articles showcasing different possible forms of the new infobox templates for those articles. Where there are differences between them, or different versions of the same thing, it means that I'm trying out different possible formattings. As it says in the intro to that page, any and all input is welcome and encouraged — there's a link to the associated Talk page if anyone has any thoughts, positive or negative, on any or all of the infoboxes shown there.
+
I'm looking forward to hearing from folks about everything that's wrong with the new Usergod template, so that we can make it better together! -- [[User:Djonni|Djonni]] ([[User talk:Djonni|talk]]) 08:43, 3 November 2019 (UTC)
  
'''Most''' helpful to me, at this stage, would be firm preferences of the form, "I like (this formatting) much better than (that formatting), you should definitely go with the first one." But, as I said, ''any'' input is welcome. -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 03:50, 29 November 2018 (UTC)
+
== Double Redirect Page Issue ==
  
: {{m|started}}
+
After wandering through the red link page list, I stumbled upon the [[Special:DoubleRedirects|double redirect page]].
 +
While I did fix one of them, the second one I'm afraid cannot be fixed without intervention by a database operator.
 +
The page in question has the title "Godville_(Town) " (which is the same as the [[Godville (Town)]] page just with an extra non-breaking white space at the end of it.)
  
: The new {{tlx|Town}} is now live. I spot-checked a bunch of articles and saw no obvious problems, but if you '''do''', please feel free to use the "T" link in the bottom-right corner of the infobox to access [[Template talk:Town]]. You can report problems or anything else there.
+
The problem is that MediaWiki internally strips the extra white space off the end of the page title before actually doing anything with it. This means that from the front end, you can't access the erroneous [https://wiki.godvillegame.com/Godville_(Town)%C2%A0 Godville_(Town) ] page at all. From what I was able to recreate on my own private wiki, the only way to fix it is going into the "page" table in the database and looking for a row with "Godville_(Town) " or "476f6476696c6c655f28546f776e29c2a0" in the "page_title" column. (The "47...a0" is the url encoded version of "Godville_(Town) " which my wiki automatically changed it to after I manually edited a page on my private wiki to have that name.) A wiki/database operator would have to go in and manually change the page title of the relevant row to remove the trailing space so that we can actually edit/delete the erroneous page, or something. I've spent the past few hours trying to find a solution online and by experimenting on my own wiki and the only way I've been able to fix such an error on my wiki is by manually editing the database.
  
: If all goes well, I'll hopefully take at least {{tlx|Artifact}} and {{tlx|Equipment}} live later today, with {{tlx|Monster}} to follow shortly after. Thanks especially to {{god|Djonni}} and {{god|SourceRunner}}, who provided invaluable feedback and advice during testing. -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 17:59, 16 December 2018 (UTC)
+
You can spot the two pages when you search for "Godville (Town)" (eg: [https://wiki.godvillegame.com/index.php?search=Godville+%28Town%29&title=Special%3ASearch&profile=default&fulltext=1 this search])
  
:: {{m|doing}}
+
It's not exactly a big problem, but, on the search results it means that two identical "Godville (Town)" pages are listed, one of them redirecting to [[Godville (Disambiguation)]] and the other being the [[Godville (Town)|page proper]]. It's more of an annoyance factor than an issue. Though, the million dollar question is how such pages actually managed to come into existence since MediaWiki sanitizes page titles...
  
:: {{tlx|Artifact}} and {{tlx|Equipment}} are also now updated. -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 02:43, 17 December 2018 (UTC)
+
{{anchor|malformed-pages}}Other pages with this issue:
 +
{| class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
 +
! Page !! Redirect? !! Search link !! Encoded equivalent
 +
|-
 +
|[https://wiki.godvillegame.com/3D_Interface%C2%A0 3D Interface ]||''redirect''||[https://wiki.godvillegame.com/index.php?search=3D+Interface%C2%A0&title=Special%3ASearch&profile=default&fulltext=1 search]||<code>33445f496e74657266616365c2a0</code>
 +
|-
 +
|[https://wiki.godvillegame.com/Equipment%C2%A0 Equipment ]||''redirect''||[https://wiki.godvillegame.com/index.php?search=Equipment%C2%A0&title=Special%3ASearch&profile=default&fulltext=1 search]||<code>45717569706d656e74c2a0</code>
 +
|-
 +
|[https://wiki.godvillegame.com/Gold_bricks%C2%A0 Gold bricks ]||''redirect''||[https://wiki.godvillegame.com/index.php?search=Gold+bricks%C2%A0&title=Special%3ASearch&profile=default&fulltext=1 search]||<code>476f6c645f627269636b73c2a0</code>
 +
|-
 +
|[https://wiki.godvillegame.com/Grayscaled_Dragon%C2%A0 Grayscaled Dragon ]||''redirect''||[https://wiki.godvillegame.com/index.php?search=Grayscaled+Dragon%C2%A0&title=Special%3ASearch&profile=default&fulltext=1 search]||<code>477261797363616c65645f447261676f6ec2a0</code>
 +
|-
 +
|[https://wiki.godvillegame.com/Ideabox%C2%A0 Ideabox ]||'''NOT''' a redirect||[https://wiki.godvillegame.com/index.php?search=Ideabox%C2%A0&title=Special%3ASearch&profile=default&fulltext=1 search]||<code>49646561626f78c2a0</code>
 +
|-
 +
|[https://wiki.godvillegame.com/Lightsaber-Toothed_Tiger%C2%A0 Lightasber-Toothed Tiger ]||''redirect''||[https://wiki.godvillegame.com/index.php?search=Lightsaber-Toothed+Tiger%C2%A0&title=Special%3ASearch&profile=default&fulltext=1 search]||<code>4c6967687473616265722d546f6f746865645f5469676572c2a0</code>
 +
|-
 +
|[https://wiki.godvillegame.com/Pets%C2%A0 Pets ]||''redirect''||[https://wiki.godvillegame.com/index.php?search=Pets%C2%A0&title=Special%3ASearch&profile=default&fulltext=1 search]||<code>50657473c2a0</code>
 +
|-
 +
|[https://wiki.godvillegame.com/Probability%C2%A0 Probability ]||''redirect''||[https://wiki.godvillegame.com/index.php?search=Probability%C2%A0&title=Special%3ASearch&profile=default&fulltext=1 search]||<code>50726f626162696c697479c2a0</code>
 +
|-
 +
|[https://wiki.godvillegame.com/Temple%C2%A0 Temple ]||''redirect''||[https://wiki.godvillegame.com/index.php?search=Temple%C2%A0&title=Special%3ASearch&profile=default&fulltext=1 search]||<code>54656d706c65c2a0</code>
 +
|-
 +
|[https://wiki.godvillegame.com/Voice_of_god%C2%A0 Voice of god ]||''redirect''||[https://wiki.godvillegame.com/index.php?search=Voice+of+god%C2%A0&title=Special%3ASearch&profile=default&fulltext=1 search]||<code>566f6963655f6f665f676f64c2a0</code>
 +
|-
 +
|[https://wiki.godvillegame.com/Trollbridge%C2%A0 Trollbridge ]||''redirect''||[https://wiki.godvillegame.com/index.php?search=Trollbridge%C2%A0&title=Special%3ASearch&profile=default&fulltext=1 search]||<code>54726f6c6c627269646765c2a0</code>
 +
|-
 +
|[https://wiki.godvillegame.com/Godville_(Town)%C2%A0 Godville (Town) ]||''redirect''||[https://wiki.godvillegame.com/index.php?search=Godville+(Town)%C2%A0&title=Special%3ASearch&profile=default&fulltext=1 search]||<code>476f6476696c6c655f28546f776e29c2a0</code>
 +
|}
 +
I found these by searching the source of the [[Special:AllPages|all pages]] special page for "%C2%A0" in the web developer/inspector console in Firefox. these are only the ones in the main namespace, I did see that some pages in the [https://wiki.godvillegame.com/Talk:Pet_Personalities%C2%A0 Talk] namespace were also affected though. Perhaps I should go in and comb through the talk pages to see which ones are affected in that namespace too if this is actually reported as a bug?
  
::: {{m|done}}
+
I'm not sure where to go with this, but I felt I couldn't just do nothing after researching it this much. [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive#Sidebar_problem|From what I could see in the archive]], should I just submit a bug report via the feedback menu in-game linking to this topic? Also, sorry if this topic is a bit bulky or long, or not in the right place -- [[User:Emptysora|Emptysora]] ([[User talk:Emptysora|talk]]) 04:26, 13 November 2019 (UTC)
  
::: With the deployment of {{tlx|Monster}}, the four main article infoboxes are now updated and live. Please use the 'T' link at the bottom of any of them, to report problems on the associated Talk page. Other wiki infoboxes (guild/user-related) will be updated time permitting. -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]])
+
: That's the same issue already talked about at [[Talk:Ideabox#The reason this article gets stuck on Special page listings|Talk:Ideabox]]. Basically, as you said, there is nothing we can do about it without admin access. I dunno if it was already reported as a bug to the admin, I'll leave that question to the oldest member. As for the why, those "phantom clone" exists, I'd take a guess and say they're probably artifacts of the starting years of the GodWiki, where countless of articles where created, and probably a lot of mistakes with it. --[[User:WardPhoenix|WardPhoenix]] ([[User talk:WardPhoenix|talk]]) 13:42, 13 November 2019 (UTC)
  
:::: The new infoboxes look SO GOOD in the wild! You put a ''lot'' of work and thought into them and it really shows. Thank you '''''so''''' much for your effort on these.
+
:: Sorry I didn't reply to this sooner, I'm travelling for work at the moment and spending most of my time in an environment with no internet access. :)
  
:::: Amazing what a nice fresh coat of paint will do around the place! -- [[User:Djonni|Djonni]] ([[User talk:Djonni|talk]]) 06:26, 19 December 2018 (UTC)
+
:: {{u|Emptysora}}, I think it's a ''very'' good idea to report this to the Devs under the Ideabox->Other category. When submitting reports like this to the devs, '''''be very, ''very'' concise'''''. Focus on a short description of the issue, and a clear action to resolve it. If they have any questions or need clarification they'll PM you on Godville (they ask me to explain more detail when I submit bug reps, other, and <s>terrible</s> awesome ideas all the time).
  
== A humble proposal ==
+
:: If I understand correctly, the table above that's introduced with {{tqi|Other pages with this issue:}} means that you've found other malformed page titles in the Godwiki? I added an {{tlc|anchor|malformed-pages}} so that if you need to you can link directly to <code>https://wiki.godvillegame.com/Main_Page#malformed-pages</code> when you message the Devs about it.
  
This proposal and discussion has been archived to [[Talk:JanuWiki 2019/Archive]].
+
:: I've noticed that same issue with the <code>Godville (town)&amp;nbsp;</code> page as well, and it's been somewhere on my mental list of stuff to dig into and chase down to report, so I'm absolutely delighted you've looked into it and really done the research to figure it out. I'm a ''massive'' dork and I really love bug hunting, which explains why I have 19 accepted bug reports in my Ideabox->Approved list, haha. I see that you have 1 Gratitude point, if you report this and it's fixed you'll earn yourself another one! 😄 -- [[User:Djonni|Djonni]] ([[User talk:Djonni|talk]]) 21:22, 13 November 2019 (UTC)
  
== Fixes for mobile content layout ==
+
::: Just sent the bug report. I like finding bugs myself, so when I see things like this, I don't usually rest until I've figured out what is wrong. I'm pretty sure my gratitude point is from a different bug report (the extra "%" at the end of the "you need XX%% godpower" message on mobile). Well, all we can do is wait. if they use software like PhpMyAdmin (which my private wiki has) it'll be pretty easy to find and modify the pages, otherwise they'd have to use an SQL console. I noticed that whenever such pages are forcibly edited in, creating/deleting/moving a page (anything that updates the "page" table) causes those titles to become hex encoded. I basically suggested they be renamed on the pattern of "*_(old)" so we could go in later and deal with them if need be. I doubt we'll keep the pages since the last time they have been modified is in like 2010 / 2011. I find it funny, just a few days ago, I was too shy to even create my own user page, and now I'm doing this. Thanks {{u|Djonni}} and {{u|WardPhoenix}}. -- [[User:Emptysora|Emptysora]] ([[User talk:Emptysora|talk]]) 21:54, 13 November 2019 (UTC)
  
So, I have an ''idea'' for how to blanket address the general mobile-browser formatting issue of content/headings being hidden by, cut off by, or improperly squeezed in alongside infoboxes and other right-floated elements (like the Archive box on Talk pages), without having to modify individual pages. The ''correct'' way to solve this problem would be with modifications to the site CSS, but lacking the ability to make such modifications I'm proposing the following band-aid fix.
+
:::: Great work, {{u|Emptysora}}, I'm glad we have your sharp eyes and detective skills on the case. In my experience, if a bug rep is going to be addressed, it will be done quite promptly, usually within a few days. If it hasn't been fixed in a couple of months, we can try reworking the report to be more succinct, or persuasive, or have a clearer resolution and call to action, and resubmit. But I expect we'll see this old problem cleared up pretty promptly now thanks to your work! -- [[User:Djonni|Djonni]] ([[User talk:Djonni|talk]]) 21:58, 13 November 2019 (UTC)
  
For those not familiar with the issue, see:
+
::::: Yeah, if it doesn't go through, I'm going to email the support address directly since email can support images. Images can't be sent via the bug report form after all. That's kind of why I put the search links in there too. I hope it's resolved soon, that '''#PhantomPage''' as it was called on the [[Talk:Ideabox#The reason this article gets stuck on Special page listings|Talk:Ideabox]] page was bugging me. -- [[User:Emptysora|Emptysora]] ([[User talk:Emptysora|talk]]) 22:03, 13 November 2019 (UTC)
* The second, fourth, and sixth images in [https://imgur.com/a/bWh75T4 this set of screenshots] from {{god|S624}}
 
* [https://imgur.com/a/zDv7djX These screenshots] also from {{god|S624}}
 
* [https://imgur.com/a/8dTiBXT This screenshot] or [https://imgur.com/a/6JNnEBS this screenshot] from {{god|Terezka}}
 
  
I've also written up [[User:FeRDNYC/Administrative requests#Content obscured by infoboxes on mobile|an incomplete technical dissection of the issue]] for those interested. The later update also explains both my initial idea for addressing the issue, and this (rethought) second plan that I'm now proposing. The first plan involved editing each page where content was wrapping incorrectly, whereas the new plan involves only editing the handful of templates which create infoboxes or other floated content.
+
:::::: Well, I guess I have good news. The bug report I submitted is listed in my "approved submissions" page, and I can't find the "phantom" pages anymore. Seems like I have to admit that the devs are awesome (although, we already know that), and thank them. Problem Resolved. -- [[User:Emptysora|Emptysora]] ([[User talk:Emptysora|talk]]) 17:11, 14 November 2019 (UTC)
 
 
My proposal is to add an invisible spacer to the end of each template which creates floated content ({{tlx|Monster}}, {{tlx|Equipment}}, {{tlx|Artifact}}, {{tlx|Town}}, {{tlx|Guild}}, {{tlx|Archives}}, etc.), immediately following the floated block. Because this spacer will have a fixed minimum width, if it fits alongside the floated block then it will simply cause an empty paragraph's worth of vertical whitespace at the top-left of the float. However, if there ''isn't'' room for the spacer alongside the float, then it will push any content which follows it (whether headings, body text, etc.) down '''below''' the floated block, preventing any of the uncomfortable layouts seen in the screenshots above.
 
 
 
To visually demonstrate what I'm suggesting, I've created '''[https://imgur.com/a/A47nhQg a screenshot gallery across a range of screen formats and orientations, and various wiki skins]'''. The screenshots present examples of how a test page would render first without, and then with, the invisible spacer. (The location of the normally-invisible spacer is highlighted with a "<code>div</code>" callout in all screenshots starting from the fifth.)
 
 
 
Making this change should fix all affected pages, and hopefully on all affected devices, without any of the individual pages needing to be modified in any way.
 
 
 
Thoughts? -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 14:41, 17 January 2019 (UTC)
 
:: Seems quite the revolution. It's gonna be a lot to add it to every concerned page, but in the end it will be way better it seems. Great thanks to you! [[User:WardPhoenix|WardPhoenix]] ([[User talk:WardPhoenix|talk]]) 15:02, 17 January 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
::: Modifying the templates definitely sounds easier/less involved than editing each page. I like the look of the solution, too. Is there a reason behind choosing the fixed width to specifically be 180 px? (That's what I think I'm reading, at least.) It works well, but I'm curious. -- [[User:SourceRunner|SourceRunner]] ([[User talk:SourceRunner|talk]]) 15:11, 17 January 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
:::: @WardPhoenix: The advantage to the proposed fix is that it specifically ''doesn't'' require modifying every page — only a few templates. The alternative would be to correct every page which is rendering incorrectly, which would indeed be a huge chore. As proposed, as few as two templates need to be edited. (If I decide the right way to go is to stick the fix into {{tlx|Infobox}} itself — rather than the derived templates like {{tlx|Monster}} and {{tlx|Town}} etc. — then that covers 95% of the problem instances in one shot.)
 
 
 
:::: @SourceRunner: The width is specified as <code>15em</code>, so the exact size will vary based on device resolution, but the actual value is basically arbitrary. Its effect is to impose a required (minimum) width for the area to the left of a floated template, before it's allowed to have content placed alongside. The width used is certainly open to adjustment — my goal is to find a value that's wide enough to prevent situations like [https://i.imgur.com/NIdHi8t.png this] or [https://i.imgur.com/7g9Alrb.png this], without leaving excessively-large blank areas next to infoboxes and the like. (Keeping in mind that any ''headings'' that are allowed to render in that space will be cut off unless the space is wide enough to wrap all of the words into it.)
 
 
 
:::: Basically, I'm trying to avoid creating either of these situations:
 
<div style="border:1px solid gray;padding:0.2em;width:20em;float:left;margin-right:1em;margin-left:8em;">
 
<div style="float:right;background-color:#88f;width:15em;height:8em;"> </div>
 
<div style="display:inline-block;min-width:4em;height:1px;"> </div>
 
<div style="font-size: 1.5em; font-family: Georgia,Times,serif; margin-top: 1em; margin-bottom: 0.25em; line-height: 1.3; padding: 0; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAAAAA; overflow: hidden;">Too narrow, heading truncated</div>
 
</div>
 
<div style="border:1px solid gray;padding:0.2em;width:20em;float:left;margin-right:1em;">
 
<div style="float:right;background-color:#88f;width:5em;height:8em;"> </div>
 
<div style="display:inline-block;min-width:16em;height:1px;"> </div>
 
Too wide, content pushed out when it could comfortably fit alongside.
 
</div>
 
{{clear}}
 
:::: ...Keeping in mind that the width of the left-hand space in those boxes will vary by quite a lot, based on factors like screen size, orientation, etc. Choosing the right <code>min-width</code> value to achieve the proper balance is completely a matter of intuition / trial-and-error. -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 19:04, 17 January 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
::::: (By using a width in <code>em</code> units, the size of the spacer is defined based on the font size in use. Specifically, it's the width of 15 letter 'm' characters. So, currently, the minimum available space to render text to the left of floated content would be this large: <span style="white-space:no-wrap;background-color:black;color:#3f3;">mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm</span>.) -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 19:12, 17 January 2019 (UTC)
 
: This seems to have introduced a new problem, at least on my iPhone 5S using the vector skin. The info box now appears not at the top, but after the first paragraph, so sometime half way down the page, and also, the box is cut off on the right side of the screen. Here’s a screenshot of the problem : (https://imgur.com/a/2TTpUYv)—[[User:Holy Spirit of Hell|Holy Spirit of Hell]] ([[User talk:Holy Spirit of Hell|talk]]) 02:16, 18 January 2019 (UTC)
 

Latest revision as of 17:11, 14 November 2019

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This page has an /Archive

Old and/or inactive discussions have been moved to the archive subpage.

Encouraging use of user talk pages

So, I've written this message, which I'm thinking of going around and (manually) placing on the User talk pages of everyone whose User: page is redirected to the main-article space, to point out that they won't receive talk-page message notifications unless they use their corresponding user talk page.

(This covers two types of users:)

  1. Those with user talk pages like User talk:BlueStapler, User talk:Hershey Almighty, etc. that are redirected to Talk:BlueStapler, Talk:Hershey Almighty, etc.
  2. Users like User:Hairplug4men, User:EJ Rose, etc. with redirected User pages, who have no redirect for their user talk page.

Basically it's about 50 people, I have a whole list. Most of them are probably not active users, but I'd plan to contact them all regardless. If they never see it, oh well. If they do, then great.

I just wanted to solicit feedback before I start.

With Special:ExpandTemplates, you can see what the message would look like when it's placed on Djonni's talk page (as an example). Click the following url:

https://wiki.godvillegame.com/index.php?title=Special:ExpandTemplates&wpInput=%7b%7bsafesubst:User:FeRDNYC/User+Talk+Message%7d%7d&wpContextTitle=User+talk:Djonni

You'll see the formatted message at the bottom of the page. -- FeRDNYC (talk) 01:51, 17 February 2019 (UTC)

It seems some people keeps on redirect their user page to another page for some reasons, tried to leave messages but it don't seem to reach through. Well it's not really a serious issue but still happens. --WardPhoenix (talk) 16:03, 12 March 2019 (UTC)
Honestly, though, that's fine and if people want to do it then more power to 'em. (There are all sorts of reasons why someone might want to, including intending their user page to be editable by other people. That's the reason Djonni (talkcontribs) specifically gives on his talk page.) If people want to keep a "god" page in the article namespace, as long as it's properly categorized no harm done. It's only when the corresponding talk page isn't redirected back to User talk: space that there's a down side. But it works just fine to maintain a non-User:Foo userpage at Foo, with a Talk:Foo page that redirects to User talk:foo, and doing that means they won't miss notifications. -- FeRDNYC (talk) 20:49, 12 March 2019 (UTC)
Sorry, the example-message URL above was "down" for a couple of weeks, as I'd repurposed the page in question to do canvassing for the JanuWiki post-mortem and forgot to set it back afterwards. Anyway, it's working again now. -- FeRDNYC (talk) 16:54, 13 March 2019 (UTC)
I'm joining this conversation pretty late, and FeRDNYC hasn't been around the wiki since April... does anyone know if he went ahead with the plan? I think it's a very good idea, speaking from my own experience with an unredirected talk page! -- Djonni (talk) 09:03, 12 September 2019 (UTC)

I don't think he end up doing it, but I could be wrong.--WardPhoenix (talk) 13:29, 12 September 2019 (UTC)

Yeah, alright. I found his draft at User:FeRDNYC/User Talk Message. I think it's a bit wordy personally, and gets a little lost in the weeds about the history of notifications on mediawiki sites, and needs a heavy edit. But I think his idea is really good and we should work up a better draft and go ahead with it.
It's a shame he isn't around at the moment (I'll leave him a talkback regardless!) because he went to the trouble of compiling a list of the affected users and we don't have it! I'll have to do that myself. -- Djonni (talk) 15:07, 12 September 2019 (UTC)

Theming or Other Event Brainstorms

FeRDNYC makes a really good point above that two big events a year would be amazing, but that there's also opportunities for smaller events. With the basis that JanuWiki should now be an annual event, perhaps this should be a list of other event or drive ideas (big and small) that we could do, to figure out how we could space things to still get necessary stuff done. -- SourceRunner (talk) 17:37, 23 March 2019 (UTC)

  • JanuWiki 2020: Year of the WikiGnome/GodWikiStmas -- Big event. Next JanuWiki. Starts when? Ends January 31, 2020. Wrap-up ends February 29, 2020. Theming granularity? Process certainties?
  • Guidelines and Guide Resources Drive

(Please expand)

  • Easter Interlink Special -- Small event. EIS Eternal would be willing to sponsor a small wiki event during the Easter week or two weeks, with the object of adding links between pages on GodWiki (with reasonable reasons for doing so). One of the wiki strengths is the ability to create an ecosystem of lore, and the best way to explore that is following links between pages. So there could be the a specific event that GodWiki editors and content creators each chose a pair of pages to interlink, and write the lore between them that explains their relationships in the ecosystem and links the two. A report to the "Help Request" page when finished a pairing would make the pair's linker eligible for a reward of some sort after EIS checks that it has been done and does make sense.
  • Trans-Lore-Ation -- Small event. A lot of Godville lore is in the forums and tucked away in little sections of personal chronicles. As players, we in common tend to "know" this lore to be true, but not have it on GodWiki. How about a small event where people scavenger-hunt their favorite descriptions of towns, taverns, monsters, and Godville myths from the older parts of forums and the crannies of guild and personal pages, then add excerpts and possible links to the applicable pages in GodWiki.
  • Stub It Out -- Large event. Survey what articles with the "Stub" tag are still stubs, and remove tags where appropriate. Expand articles that are still stubs.
  • "Wherefore ART Thou?" -- Large event(?). Adding art to the "picture needed" category articles. Some artists need a long time to plan, so this may need to be a slow or multi-phase event.
Could be associated with the stub event maybe?


Sounds like there is some good ideas ready for the oven. I'd say that if you want to throw an event, just go for it. Create a page for it and allow us to help for the preparation.
Maybe we should make like a planner for upcomming events. By the way, talks about upcomming event may be more appropriate on the main talk
As for JanuWiki2020 (or GodWikiStmas maybe), I'd say we have the time to see it coming. Let's care of other event before.
--WardPhoenix (talk) 23:55, 25 March 2019 (UTC)
As another idea for a possible event (I don't even know if it would be considered big or small), Category:Pictures needed is up to 314 entries. That's 314 existing articles (primarily ones that use {{Monster}}, {{Artifact}}, or {{Equipment}}) which don't have an image to go with their subject. Trimming that list down a bit could also be a good way to get non-writers involved in creating wiki content. -- FeRDNYC (talk) 06:39, 26 March 2019 (UTC)
Oh, yes, and Category:Stubs is up to 552 articles that (in theory) need fleshing-out.
I say "in theory" because some of them may not really be stubs, having been expanded since they were tagged that way. In the "Advanced options" at the bottom of the appearance preferences is the option "Threshold for stub link formatting". It takes a length (in bytes) an article's source must be so it's not considered a stub. Links to all articles shorter than that threshold will be colored with a darker shade of red than the standard redlink coloring.
I currently have that preference set to 1000 bytes, and still some of the items in Category:Stubs are colored blue. It's certainly possible for an article that's over 1000 bytes long to also be a stub, but it's also possible that there's already plenty of content there and the stub designation is outdated / overzealous. I'd say maybe 10-15% of the category's members show non-stub link coloring. -- FeRDNYC (talk) 07:00, 26 March 2019 (UTC)
These are great ideas for events, WardPhoenix and FeRDNYC. I've added them to the bullet point list above, and tried to evaluate them as large or small, based on your descriptions. Please feel free to expand or change what's in the bullet list.
WardPhoenix, good suggestion about the planner/calendar for events. Is something like that possible in GodWiki, FeRDNYC? --SourceRunner (talk) 15:21, 26 March 2019 (UTC)

I'd say that if you want to throw an event, just go for it. Create a page for it and allow us to help for the preparation.
— User:WardPhoenix

I would agree with that, with one small adjustment: When you decide you definitely are throwing an event, creating a page for it would be the first step in preparing for it, and can serve as the formal announcement of the upcoming event.
I think Djonni worked up to JanuWiki 2019 exactly the right way (whether intentionally or by pure luck): He put out feelers on the forums and in a proposal here at Talk:Main Page, and used those discussions to solicit feedback and take the community's temperature on the idea. Then once he was sure there was sufficient interest that he could commit to definitely doing an event, he pulled the trigger on creating the event page, at which point he had someplace he could link to as a "more information" resource when he made the official announcement(s) about the upcoming event.
At any stage of planning, there's always the possibility that an event could end up getting cancelled for lack of involvement or interest. Things happen. But that risk can be minimized by getting at least a core team on board before putting a lot of work into constructing an event framework for a "maybe" or "possible" event. -- FeRDNYC (talk) 14:43, 27 March 2019 (UTC)

Moved this to the main page as it is more appropriate place and also easier to reach (yeah I'm lazy to reach for januwiki page every time on my phone). By the way I think the EIS event would be quite interesting, and as easter is coming i'd suggest we start thinking about it if you really want to kick it. On a side note, I don't think a guideline event would be appropriate. Guidelines are supposed to be wrote by experimented and active users for beginners. That's more something we have to work on with experimented users I'd say. -- WardPhoenix (talk) 23:02, 26 March 2019 (UTC)

That's a fair point, re: the Guidelines. I guess it depends how broadly you define "event". Certainly, you're right, guidelines-updates aren't the sort of free-for-all activity where we'd put out a call to the entire Godville user community for participation. Maybe "an effort", or "a sprint" (to employ some of my least-favorite software development jargon), among those experienced users.
That being said...
  1. A lot of what's lacking in the current Guidelines articles just comes down to formatting, copyediting, structure, and layout fixes — things that could be done by almost anyone, especially with guidance, as there's no real expertise needed. (However, as they also need major content updates, they're definitely not entirely fixable by casual editors alone. But they could be vastly improved.)
  2. Because (as you say) the target audience for the Guidelines is inexperienced users, in my experience it's a huge mistake to write them without any input from users at or near that level. One of the things I learned in software development is that you never have the senior programmer, the one who wrote most of the code and knows every aspect of the software inside-and-out, write the instruction manual. If they try, 90% of the time it'll end up being unintelligible to the "average users" it's supposed to be written for.

    (It's the same reason you NEVER sign up for a freshman-level "Intro to Whatever" class if it's taught by that department's most senior, most published, most brilliant researcher. Very few people whose knowledge of a topic is at that level will be capable of "dumbing things down" sufficiently that they can effectively teach it to students who have virtually no background in the subject. Everything will go right over their heads.)

The two trickiest problems in documentation don't have anything to do with knowledge or accuracy of information: The first is figuring out exactly where your target audience is at in terms of background knowledge and skill level, so that you know which things need to be explained, vs. what they probably already know so you don't waste their time repeating it. The other problem, then, is being able to explain things at that level, without leaving out any of the information they need because it's just implicitly assumed or seems "obvious" to someone with more experience.
...But, all that being said I agree that Guidelines updates wouldn't make sense as an "event" in the JanuWiki mold, where we try to solicit come-one-come-all participation from as many users as possible. Heck, they may not be a very good fit for any sort of organized "group effort" at all — our best bet may be for someone to eventually just dive in and start making Bold changes to define an updated, improved structure for the content. Even if they only update a single Guideline article, once there's an example to work off of, other editors can pitch in to apply the same changes to the rest of the Guidelines. (That sort of example-based, follow-the-leader model is how most content-wide changes propagate here, really. Djonni created the {{hero or heroine}} template set, but he's responsible for only a handful of edits that applied those templates to article content.) -- FeRDNYC (talk) 14:43, 27 March 2019 (UTC)


The Monstrous Recapitalisation of 2019

So, the way the game handles capitalisation after a hyphen in a monster name has changed recently. The Ideabox has always automatically capitalised monster ideas, but it didn't historically treat a hyphen as a word break, and it does now... Mostly. A word after a hyphen will be capitalised if it is at least 3 (or maybe it's 4) characters long. This is an attempt to make sure that articles and short prepositions in hyphenated words are not capitalised, according to traditional title caps rules. And, of course, ER editors can manually change capitalisation in cases where that simple rule hasn't quite got something right, as they always could.

At the same time, existing monster names in the game have been recapitalised to match normal English typography. The recapitalisation seems to follow these rough rules:

  1. Where something after a hyphen was already capitalised, it has stayed that way (the only changes are to previously lowercase letters immediately after a hyphen)
  2. Articles and prepositions after a hyphen remain lowercase, as they would in a title (e.g. Monster-in-Law), but not entirely consistently (see point 1, e.g. Missing-In-Action Figure)
  3. Word fragments, e.g. Arrgh-onaut, remain uncapitalised, but not entirely consistently (see point 1, e.g. Flame-Ingo)
  4. Otherwise, words after a hyphen have been capitalised pretty consistently.

This post here is essentially to signal that there will be some monster pages that need to be moved to their new capitalisation, and edits being made to List of Monsters as well as monster articles as required. I'm going to do a lot of this, but even taking advantage of some extra external resources I probably won't catch everything, and there's a chance I might move or correct things to a wrong capitalisation.

If you see a hyphenated monster name in the game, and that monster is capitalised differently on the Godwiki, then we need to fix it! It can be a bit of work to make those changes, though, so if you spot something wrong but don't have the opportunity (or perhaps knowledge) to do it yourself, please leave a note about it (right here, or on the monster article's talk page if that's easier) and another editor should get the changes done mañana.

That said... if you think you don't have the skills you're probably wrong. Be Bold, try to do it yourself, and if someone can see you're struggling or not getting it right they'll clean up after you. No muss, no fuss, no worries. It's really not more work for an experienced editor to fix a mistake someone else makes, than for that editor to do the work in the first place, so you're never creating more work for someone else!

A brief checklist for myself and others:

  • If the monster has an article:
    • The article must be moved to the correct name. (Looking at original article, the "More" menu in the top right has the "Move" action. Is this also true on mobile? Can't recall and can't currently check.)
    • Text in article body corrected as needed. {{Monster}} infobox should be fine, as it uses the {{PAGENAME}} magic word by default, but double-check for |title= parameters or unusual description text.
  • List of Monsters to be updated.
  • Check for a relevant navbox and update. (A text search will only include the main namespace by default, but hitting 'Everything' or 'Advanced' in the results will allow searching of templates.)
  • If time permits, search for text in pages with the old capitalisation. Put quotes "..." around the name to get the right results. (Two birds with one stone: correcting the capitalisation and an opportunity to increase interlinking if the monster has an article.)
  • If time permits (lowest priority though, I think), update Omnibus List. The main users of the Omnibus are crossword solvers, to whom capitalisation is irrelevant.

(Please feel free to add to or alter that checklist if I've missed something.)

Obviously, this is a fairly low priority and on-going project, so it'll take a while and a bit of work to get done together. :) -- Djonni (talk) 08:44, 12 September 2019 (UTC)

Put monsters' name here if you can't update

JanuWiki 2020 Ideas and Planning

Heya once again! I did a bit of poking around in the JanuWiki 2019 page, and couldn't find any plans for what the next theme is gonna be. It never hurts to start planning early, so I kinda decided to start gathering a few ideas. After looking around the internet for some potential New Year themes, I have three potential suggestions:

  1. A glasses/vision-related theme. It's going to be 2020 - it shall be the year of perfect vision and clarity!
  2. Something related to time. Similar reason as the first one (mostly because I already anticipate all of the 'hindsight is 20/20' puns that the year will bring), but there's also the whole 'marking of another year going by'. Sounds a bit on the melodramatic side, though.
  3. Chinese zodiac time! Now, there isn't exactly a whole lot of potential rodent-themed articles on here (2020 is the year of the Rat, after all), but I did some cross-referencing! Apparently there are Chinese elemental years too, and next year's element is going to be Metal. So, Metal/Rat articles?

I know it's really early, but I really want to help the next JanuWiki be like the first one (cuz seriously, the sheer number of content was really amazing + fun to read)! What do you guys think? --Arcanedreamer (talk) 02:47, 22 September 2019 (UTC)

Arcanedreamer, I actually think that those are pretty great ideas! I for one have try to give JanuWiki 2020 any serious thought, but using a 20/20 theme is a brilliant thought!
One (really great) thing that happened with JanuWiki 2019 is that as the event rolled on we had to expand and extend it to new themes, bring more ideas into the event, and keep offering don't exciting new ideas for people who just didn't get inputted enough by the first tranche of suggestions. So having a handful of interesting, related-ish, but quite diverse options is really valuable. I think working with the 20/20 concepts you've suggested first (vision, hindsight, foresight, time) is an excellent focal point (pun intended), with metal and rodent articles tucked up our sleeves for when/if we need to grow the theme. For 2019, we started all about beer, and from brainstorming and adapting we added bosses, lions, tigers, and bears over the month. So we've seen that a diverse and interesting collection of ideas can really help catch the interest of folks who might only like one part of it.
Later today I'll do some surveying to see what missing or stubbed articles will be captured by these themes, and that will give us a more concrete notion of how they would look for an event! -- Djonni (talk) 08:38, 22 September 2019 (UTC)
Themes' Ideas looks good. I wonder if doing a survey on the forums could be usefull to see if people would be willing to participate in the event, and what they think could be improved compared to previous ones. --WardPhoenix (talk) 18:33, 22 September 2019 (UTC)
I'm actually really happy you guys like my ideas! So, thing is, I already did a bit of artwork in anticipation of JanuWiki 2020. I'm perfectly fine with doing a couple more items in order to make the event look even better, but I'd like to know ahead of time if that's okay. And if so, maybe let me know ASAP if there's any specific items you guys would want so that I don't have to do a rush job at the last minute? --Arcanedreamer (talk) 19:49, 22 September 2019 (UTC)
So, I got around to that thing I said I would do yesterday... I've started a survey of possible articles for the two theme groups (20/20 and Metal Rat) at Djonni/Shared sandbox (note that I've intentionally kept that out of my User: area so that everybody can tinker with, improve or extend it). I was pretty inclusive about what I captured for the 20/20 theme, and only just started on the Metal Rat articles (I've saved it in progress, I'll carry on and on anon. 🎵🎶Alalalalalonglonglilonglonglong, sing it🎶🎵
I definitely agree WardPhoenix, we should take this to the forums, but before w're ready to do that we should have a very clear idea of what the theme ideas we're presenting are, I think, so that folks there have some concrete, fully though out and fleshed out things to discuss and contribute to. Let's discuss and refine the articles and concepts a little more together here first!
And for readers who are following this but have not yet joined the conversation — please share your thoughts, good, bad, or whatever they may be!
Arcanedreamer, whoa, I'm pretty impressed by your artwork there! Personally I think that's a great piece of decoration for the main page announcement, and will probably be useful in places on the main event page too, fantastic work! Something that I discovered doing the theme survey — Did You Know that there's actually a Steel Rat monster in Godville? I feel like the Steel Rat would make an excellent mascot for JanuWiki 2020, regardless of how the theming conversation goes, what do you guys think? Your geometric artwork there is excellent, Arcanedreamer, I suspect a Steel Rat is much harder. Do you think it's within your scope? There will probably be some reuse-permitted images we could use, so it's entirely up to you! :) -- Djonni (talk) 14:45, 23 September 2019 (UTC)
Djonni, I hear a mild challenge in there. I shall accept and prove your skepticism wrong! In all seriousness, though, it sounds like a fun way to push at my pixel art boundaries (I've been doing nothing but inanimate objects so far, ehehe....)! Also, two things - should I go ahead and place whatever JanuWiki 2020 art I end up creating in the sandbox? And are there any other art requests? --Arcanedreamer (talk) 15:07, 23 September 2019 (UTC)

It looks like from Djonni/Shared sandbox that there is already quite the amount of articles found within both them (good work finding them by the way). So now, what? Do we use the forum to see if there is people interested in a potential event before throwing anything and thinking of the form JanuWiki 2020 could take? --WardPhoenix (talk) 13:58, 25 September 2019 (UTC)

Sorry guys, been a busy week at work! Arcanedreamer, your Steel Rat is great! I'm very impressed! :D
Yeah, WardPhoenix, if you guys are happy with the lists at Djonni/Shared sandbox then we should probably take it to the forum. I'll create a dedicated talk topic for JanuWiki 2020 ideas and planning, so that folks don't feel like they need to wade through months of discussion above to get up to speed. -- Djonni (talk) 15:48, 27 September 2019 (UTC)
Well, I just posted an offensively long message on the forums (Godville Forum topic 308, post 1274998) so if anyone's masochistic enough to actually read it, welcome to the conversation! 😅 -- Djonni (talk) 17:38, 27 September 2019 (UTC)
Bold of you to assume that I would think reading a long forum post is a masochistic action. In all seriousness, I think you did a good job doing an early advertisement for the event! Hopefully it'll attract old and new participants alike~! --Arcanedreamer (talk) 23:47, 27 September 2019 (UTC)
So, with the new Book of Creation update, should we consider a chance in focus to all things related to words, books, and writing? -- Djonni (talk) 16:53, 9 October 2019 (UTC)
Maybe? I mean, on one hand, I think we're fine with the themes we already have - look at how many articles that are already available! On the other hand, people tend to be a lot more hyped up for new things, so there's a pretty good chance that more people would be interested. In the end, I guess it just depends on how big you're expecting this next JanuWiki is gonna be. --Arcanedreamer (talk) 02:33, 10 October 2019 (UTC)

────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────I've done a rapid survey of book and word themed items at Djonni/Shared sandbox#Books and words. The main takeaway from that is that there's essentially no monsters (the most popular creator category by far) and a huuuge list of artifacts that don't offer the same variety and breadth that the other categories do.

It might still be nice for us to do something about books and words with the Book of Creation update, but I think making it a part of JanuWiki isn't going to create a lot of excitement.

And to answer that question, Arcanedreamer, I am anticipating that this JanuWiki will be a little smaller than the last one. But we won't know until we see for ourselves. :) -- Djonni (talk) 06:49, 10 October 2019 (UTC)

Decoration Questions and Art Requests

Alrighty, so I noticed that the navboxes for the past GodWiki vents tend to have a neat little picture instead of a simple dot separating the different articles. I'm not entirely sure how that works - is there a way to place our own pics (I.E. some specialized JanuWiki pixel art icons) in there, or are we limited to a preset group of images? I was about to start working on a few icon designs before realizing that I didn't know if we're able to even use them. --Arcanedreamer (talk) 05:10, 28 September 2019 (UTC)

Well when I made {{navbox items}} I built in quite a bit of flexibility for exactly this kind of reason! :) Using the |bullet= parameter, you can set the separator between list items to anything you want. We usually use emoji characters for this, which has benefits and drawbacks, but there's no reason why we can't use an image!
The image that we use in the {{god}} template for this: GodArcanedreamer  is rendered as 17x17 pixels, making it just a little taller than the line on most screens. In the wiki software used to run the GodWiki, there's no way to make the size of an image dynamic in any way, so we will have to decide on pixel dimensions to use (and the wiki doesn't have support for any vector image types either, so a small bullet-sized image won't stretch or shrink well on a lot of screens).
If you think you can come up with some cool tiny bullet images for navbox use, I think that would be great! We can do a bit of experimenting and see how well it works. I'll leave choices about size up to you, but it might be wise to aim for something that's around 12x12 to 8x8, and using transparency if you don't want it to be a square block :)
To test out how it looks in a navbox list, use this:
{{navbox items|bullet=[[File:Filename.ext]]|List item one|List item two|List item three}}
Which should give you something like this:
List item one Godicon.png List item two Godicon.png List item three
If you want to play with different render sizes, you can put |12x12px or |10x10px etc in the image options like [[File:...|12x12px]]. :) -- Djonni (talk) 06:31, 28 September 2019 (UTC)

Call for feedback on new {{Usergod}} template

Notey.png Feedback required

Hello all!

This is an official call for anyone interested to test and give feedback on the draft of the new {{Usergod}} template. If you want to get stuck in straight away, you can leap to the fully documented draft at User:Djonni/Template sandbox.

To begin testing the new template straight away, if you already have the Usergod template on your page you can simply replace {{Usergod with {{User:Djonni/Template sandbox to see how it will look with the new template.

In short, the {{Usergod}} and {{Usergoddess}} templates haven't been updated since 2013, and they really need it. We have modernised and made pretty all of the {{Monster}}, {{Artifact}}, {{Equipment}}, etc. infobox templates, and with the lessons we've learned there, it's time to get to work on the big ones: {{Usergod}}, {{Hero}}, and {{Guild}}. This is the first of those to hit the bench.

In the redesign I have tried to keep to several principles:

  • Don't mess up existing pages. The Usergod template is currently used on 203 Godwiki pages. Many of those pages have made very specific choices about colours, styles, backgrounds, etc. This is why, by default, the new Usergod template will be transparent: the old template has been transparent for over 8 years, and it should be entirely up to you, the template user, how your Usergod infobox looks. Which leads to:
  • Allow for a large amount of customisation, as simply as possible. I have investigated quite deeply (I think) how those existing 203 users of the template have used it, and tried to look at what they wanted but couldn't get from the existing template. The replacement has a large and flexible suite of colouring, styling, and creative options there to use, all of which are completely optional. It can be as elaborate and detailed as you like, or just a quick, simple summary of your most interesting and important features. Whatever you want.
  • Try not to force any decisions onto you, including gender norms. Don't want to be called either God or Goddess? No problem, set |title=The Great and Powerful, or =The Divine, or =Furmeister General, or anything you want. Don't want your minion to be called Hero or Heroine? Great, |herolabel=Champion, or =Minion, or =Kōhai, or whatever you like. If you see a way to make the template more customisable, please say so, and if I can realistically do so, I shall.
  • Expect the unexpected. I have not tried to guess everything you'll want to do with the template. Instead, I've tried to make the template capable of doing anything you might want. There are options to create fully customised sections of the infobox, which you could use to: embed your hero(ine)'s details into it; prominently feature forum roleplaying character sheets; proudly display your pets, ark, achievements, skills, pet peeves, anything. People really tried to get creative with the old Usergod template, and it just didn't allow them to. So, this one does.

As implied above, updating {{Usergod}} is phase one; after the new Usergod is finalised and put in place, phase two will be {{Hero}}. Depending on the feedback received, my observations of how the new templates are used (or not used), and the level of interest, phase two may also involve designing some additional related templates: {{Pet}}, {{Lab boss}}, {{Ark}}. Then finally, after a lot of feedback and testing, the {{Guild}} template will be updated. This will be the most difficult and controvertial, as it's the most heavily used template on the Godwiki (at this moment, there are exactly 500 pages using the Guild template), and for many people, their guild page is the only thing they interact with on Godwiki.

Feedback, discussion, and questions about the new template can be given right here, or at User talk:Djonni/Template sandbox. You'll also find some discussion and feedback from early testers at User talk:Djonni and User talk:WardPhoenix/Sandbox if you're interested.

I'm looking forward to hearing from folks about everything that's wrong with the new Usergod template, so that we can make it better together! -- Djonni (talk) 08:43, 3 November 2019 (UTC)

Double Redirect Page Issue

After wandering through the red link page list, I stumbled upon the double redirect page. While I did fix one of them, the second one I'm afraid cannot be fixed without intervention by a database operator. The page in question has the title "Godville_(Town) " (which is the same as the Godville (Town) page just with an extra non-breaking white space at the end of it.)

The problem is that MediaWiki internally strips the extra white space off the end of the page title before actually doing anything with it. This means that from the front end, you can't access the erroneous Godville_(Town) page at all. From what I was able to recreate on my own private wiki, the only way to fix it is going into the "page" table in the database and looking for a row with "Godville_(Town) " or "476f6476696c6c655f28546f776e29c2a0" in the "page_title" column. (The "47...a0" is the url encoded version of "Godville_(Town) " which my wiki automatically changed it to after I manually edited a page on my private wiki to have that name.) A wiki/database operator would have to go in and manually change the page title of the relevant row to remove the trailing space so that we can actually edit/delete the erroneous page, or something. I've spent the past few hours trying to find a solution online and by experimenting on my own wiki and the only way I've been able to fix such an error on my wiki is by manually editing the database.

You can spot the two pages when you search for "Godville (Town)" (eg: this search)

It's not exactly a big problem, but, on the search results it means that two identical "Godville (Town)" pages are listed, one of them redirecting to Godville (Disambiguation) and the other being the page proper. It's more of an annoyance factor than an issue. Though, the million dollar question is how such pages actually managed to come into existence since MediaWiki sanitizes page titles...

Other pages with this issue:

Page Redirect? Search link Encoded equivalent
3D Interface redirect search 33445f496e74657266616365c2a0
Equipment redirect search 45717569706d656e74c2a0
Gold bricks redirect search 476f6c645f627269636b73c2a0
Grayscaled Dragon redirect search 477261797363616c65645f447261676f6ec2a0
Ideabox NOT a redirect search 49646561626f78c2a0
Lightasber-Toothed Tiger redirect search 4c6967687473616265722d546f6f746865645f5469676572c2a0
Pets redirect search 50657473c2a0
Probability redirect search 50726f626162696c697479c2a0
Temple redirect search 54656d706c65c2a0
Voice of god redirect search 566f6963655f6f665f676f64c2a0
Trollbridge redirect search 54726f6c6c627269646765c2a0
Godville (Town) redirect search 476f6476696c6c655f28546f776e29c2a0

I found these by searching the source of the all pages special page for "%C2%A0" in the web developer/inspector console in Firefox. these are only the ones in the main namespace, I did see that some pages in the Talk namespace were also affected though. Perhaps I should go in and comb through the talk pages to see which ones are affected in that namespace too if this is actually reported as a bug?

I'm not sure where to go with this, but I felt I couldn't just do nothing after researching it this much. From what I could see in the archive, should I just submit a bug report via the feedback menu in-game linking to this topic? Also, sorry if this topic is a bit bulky or long, or not in the right place -- Emptysora (talk) 04:26, 13 November 2019 (UTC)

That's the same issue already talked about at Talk:Ideabox. Basically, as you said, there is nothing we can do about it without admin access. I dunno if it was already reported as a bug to the admin, I'll leave that question to the oldest member. As for the why, those "phantom clone" exists, I'd take a guess and say they're probably artifacts of the starting years of the GodWiki, where countless of articles where created, and probably a lot of mistakes with it. --WardPhoenix (talk) 13:42, 13 November 2019 (UTC)
Sorry I didn't reply to this sooner, I'm travelling for work at the moment and spending most of my time in an environment with no internet access. :)
Emptysora, I think it's a very good idea to report this to the Devs under the Ideabox->Other category. When submitting reports like this to the devs, be very, very concise. Focus on a short description of the issue, and a clear action to resolve it. If they have any questions or need clarification they'll PM you on Godville (they ask me to explain more detail when I submit bug reps, other, and terrible awesome ideas all the time).
If I understand correctly, the table above that's introduced with Other pages with this issue: means that you've found other malformed page titles in the Godwiki? I added an {{anchor|malformed-pages}} so that if you need to you can link directly to https://wiki.godvillegame.com/Main_Page#malformed-pages when you message the Devs about it.
I've noticed that same issue with the Godville (town)&nbsp; page as well, and it's been somewhere on my mental list of stuff to dig into and chase down to report, so I'm absolutely delighted you've looked into it and really done the research to figure it out. I'm a massive dork and I really love bug hunting, which explains why I have 19 accepted bug reports in my Ideabox->Approved list, haha. I see that you have 1 Gratitude point, if you report this and it's fixed you'll earn yourself another one! 😄 -- Djonni (talk) 21:22, 13 November 2019 (UTC)
Just sent the bug report. I like finding bugs myself, so when I see things like this, I don't usually rest until I've figured out what is wrong. I'm pretty sure my gratitude point is from a different bug report (the extra "%" at the end of the "you need XX%% godpower" message on mobile). Well, all we can do is wait. if they use software like PhpMyAdmin (which my private wiki has) it'll be pretty easy to find and modify the pages, otherwise they'd have to use an SQL console. I noticed that whenever such pages are forcibly edited in, creating/deleting/moving a page (anything that updates the "page" table) causes those titles to become hex encoded. I basically suggested they be renamed on the pattern of "*_(old)" so we could go in later and deal with them if need be. I doubt we'll keep the pages since the last time they have been modified is in like 2010 / 2011. I find it funny, just a few days ago, I was too shy to even create my own user page, and now I'm doing this. Thanks Djonni and WardPhoenix. -- Emptysora (talk) 21:54, 13 November 2019 (UTC)
Great work, Emptysora, I'm glad we have your sharp eyes and detective skills on the case. In my experience, if a bug rep is going to be addressed, it will be done quite promptly, usually within a few days. If it hasn't been fixed in a couple of months, we can try reworking the report to be more succinct, or persuasive, or have a clearer resolution and call to action, and resubmit. But I expect we'll see this old problem cleared up pretty promptly now thanks to your work! -- Djonni (talk) 21:58, 13 November 2019 (UTC)
Yeah, if it doesn't go through, I'm going to email the support address directly since email can support images. Images can't be sent via the bug report form after all. That's kind of why I put the search links in there too. I hope it's resolved soon, that #PhantomPage as it was called on the Talk:Ideabox page was bugging me. -- Emptysora (talk) 22:03, 13 November 2019 (UTC)
Well, I guess I have good news. The bug report I submitted is listed in my "approved submissions" page, and I can't find the "phantom" pages anymore. Seems like I have to admit that the devs are awesome (although, we already know that), and thank them. Problem Resolved. -- Emptysora (talk) 17:11, 14 November 2019 (UTC)