Talk:JanuWiki 2019

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This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the JanuWiki 2019 article.
This is not a forum for general discussion about the article's subject.

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This page has an archive

Old and/or inactive discussions have been moved to the /Archive subpage.

The original proposal and discussion from Talk:Main Page can be found at Talk:JanuWiki 2019/Archive.

Death to boldface-type "headings"

I already changed this yesterday in the Monster preload template, to avoid encouraging even more of it, but it's undeniably TRUE that this is currently a very common pattern scattered throughout our existing article content:

* Stuff
* More stuff

* Crap
* Additional crap

To the point where I'd sponsor a special attahero just for the hero who went through our existing articles and fixed that trash so that headings were headings:

* Stuff
* More stuff

* Crap
* Additional crap

(Those particular sections/headings being only one example of a type, there are many other variations.) Because tedium like this is the kind of stuf that inspires Wikipedians to breed bot accounts. -- FeRDNYC (talk) 15:38, 31 December 2018 (UTC)

The dark deed you requested is done for Monsters M-Z. Wanamingo (talk) 09:01, 3 January 2019 (UTC)
I saw your edits going through, Wanamingo, well done! I've one additional request, as you work: in articles such as Satan Claus, where we have a big section of content and then ==Attributes== becomes the first heading in the article, if there is any further heading (such as ==Pet Taming== there, for example) we end up with a weirdly-placed Table of Contents generated automatically just above the first heading. (The wiki will helpfully create a TOC if there are >3 headings of any level in the article, and since it has no understanding of the content, the most obvious place for this is immediately above the first heading.)
I'll leave it to your judgement how to solve this on a per-article basis, depending which is the most sensible. Here are the three main approaches I'd consider:
  1. Force the wiki not to generate a TOC with the magic word __NOTOC__ at the top of the page (where future editors will see it immediately).
  2. Add a new heading near the top, after a short introductory sentence/paragraph. Something like ==History==, ==Features==, or whatever makes sense contextually in the article.
  3. If you think the page should have a TOC, and that there's no sensible way to insert a heading near the top, you could change the location of the generated table of contents by putting a different magic word __TOC__ on a line in the place where a TOC would make sense (usually near to, but not at, the top of the article).
I'm sure there are other ways to approach it, but those three seem the ones most likely to make sense (in my mind, at least).
Once again, great work. πŸ‘ -- Djonni (talk) 11:52, 3 January 2019 (UTC)

in articles such as Satan Claus, where we have a big section of content and then ==Attributes== becomes the first heading in the article, if there is any further heading (such as ==Pet Taming== there, for example) we end up with a weirdly-placed Table of Contents generated automatically just above the first heading.

I'll be honest... I don't see the problem there, myself. At least, not looking at the Satan Claus example. The TOC is only "weirdly placed" if you feel it needs to be at the top of the article, which I personally don't. It's placed where the sectioned content begins, which is the natural place to index the sections. Putting it higher (farther from the section headings) would be the weird thing. And adding headings so that everything is in sections (thus pushing the TOC to the very top of the article) looks even worse IMHO, at least in articles where there's also an infobox. -- FeRDNYC (talk) 00:49, 4 January 2019 (UTC)
And, yes β€” very awesome, Wanamingo! You have my gratitude. -- FeRDNYC (talk) 00:50, 4 January 2019 (UTC)
Monsters E-L are also done. These edits were made with the TOC in mind. You're welcome! -- Wanamingo (talk) 06:44, 4 January 2019 (UTC)
Monsters A-D are done.
In summary, all boldface-type headings for currently existing Monster pages have been changed to be actual headings.
Once again, with feeling: /watch?v=9FgwKpemKmo
Please feel free to archive this section of the talk page. Have a good weekend! -- Wanamingo (talk) 07:01, 5 January 2019 (UTC)

β”Œβ”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”˜ Brilliant Wanamingo! 430-ish fiddly little repetitive edits... I hope you used some regex/search-and-replace trickery for semi-automation! We salute you, sir!

I won't archive this just yet, for two reasons: firstly, so people can see how you've contributed (because this kind of housekeeping and weeding is just as important to the health and usability of the wiki as great content is). But also so that people can see a concrete example of wiki culture at its best and most functional: discursive, consensus-driven direction (FeRDNYC bringing up the issue, and then he and I articulating differing ideas about tables of contents, above), combined with being bold — you, Wanamingo, going ahead and just gettin' it done, having obviously taken the opinions here into account and doing what you saw needed doing with your own judgement.

One of the things that has been so great to see as a side-effect of JanuWiki is how many people are clicking their way around the wiki, finding pages and articles that they're enjoying, and just going ahead and doing stuff. Flagging stubs, adding infoboxes, editing typos, improving accuracy, looking for (and finding, or asking for) features they want and need in the tools they're using. I couldn't be happier with how JanuWiki has gone so far, and it's only day 5! -- Djonni (talk) 07:52, 5 January 2019 (UTC)

My inattention, and thanks :)

Just wanted to drop a little message here saying thanks to everyone who's tidied up my mistakes here (you know who you are, thank you) and for everyone keeping the balls bouncing while I've been a bit distracted and inattentive the last few days. :)

Some folks have asked me by PM if they should allow me to do updates to things like Help:Requests assignments or JanuWiki 2019#Progress updates -- absolutely not! :) The only thing I'd suggest is best not to update your own scores (but you all have been following that instinctively anyways), but please don't hesitate to keep things up-to-date and accurate (especially when someone I do an inaccurate update! πŸ˜…)

Thanks again to everyone who's participating in JanuWiki, whether you're writing, finding/creating pictures, a volunteer editor, fixing and updating the wider wiki and its content, or even if all you're doing is reading and grinning along with the fun, the response to JanuWiki has been so, so much better than I had hoped, and wildly better than I had feared. :)

Oh, another thing I should mention/apologise for, I haven't been keeping any commentary or updates up over at Wiki Questions Thread... since day 1. Perhaps it's not completely necessary (especially after the super positive dev blog mention! THANK YOU, GodGodville !) but if anyone wanted to put a little summary over there for those who dwell only in the deepest darkest forum threads, every little JanuWiki teaser has brought more activity and vibrancy to the wiki. :)

Now, it's after midnight where I am and I have to be up really early for travel, so... G'night! -- Djonni (talk) 23:15, 4 January 2019 (UTC)

Some folks have asked me by PM if they should allow me to do updates to things like Help:Requests assignments or JanuWiki 2019#Progress updates

...Meaning, they've asked whether they should not do those things, and instead leave them to you? (Just making sure I, and everyone else, understood correctly.) -- FeRDNYC (talk) 02:34, 5 January 2019 (UTC)
Yep, that's what I meant. To rephrase, I have been asked if I want to take the sole responsibility for those things, and the answer is "certainly not" :) -- Djonni (talk) 04:45, 5 January 2019 (UTC)
Thumbs up pig.gif -- FeRDNYC (talk) 20:48, 5 January 2019 (UTC)

We, uh... we actually need more JanuWiki items 😲

Well it's day 5 of JanuWiki and, uh... we're almost out of monsters.

Honestly, I did not anticipate that.

So, I need help! JanuWiki needs to expand, and I need advice on how we do that.

  • We can scour the monsters list for drink-related monsters not yet included. This would probably add a small handful, get us through another few days at this pace (!). Off the top of my head, things like Drinkerbell... uh... actually that might be it?
  • As was pointed out by one of our creators, User:Terezka, bear is just one letter away from beer. So we could include the contents of Template:Navbox ursidae, which connects all the bear-related articles. At a glance that would add 14 red-linked monsters to our JanuWiki stable, almost tripling the Monsters roster.
    • Actually, we could re-frame JanuWiki as "Lagers and Tigers and Bears, oh my!" There are I think at least 8 more monsters to be found amongst lions and tigers, and about twenty more that are cats (Looks like we need a cats navbox!). I haven't done a survey to see what's red, blue or stubbed in those yet.
  • Or, there's Beer and Loathing in Godvegas (though let's workshop that name πŸ˜…): there's plenty of monsters with words like "Enemy", "Villain", "Anti-", etc. that could be included, and still a lot of stubs among the new towns introduced since April.

Those are just a couple of initial ideas that I've thought of, it'll be another couple of coffees before I'm running at full speed. Thoughts and suggestions welcome! :) -- Djonni (talk) 08:39, 5 January 2019 (UTC)

Be Bold! Why not a bit of everything? As for names:
  • Beer and Liquor in Last Resort - To make it fully event & Godville related.
  • "Lions and Tigers and Bears, oh my!" - The original has the bonus of them all being brands of beer.
I'll have a look through the categories for anything we can add as well. -- S624 (talk) 11:12, 5 January 2019 (UTC)
I really like the "Lagers and Tigers and Bears, oh my!" idea. I'd also be happy to look into making the cat navbox, if that would help. It would be a bigger one, from just looking into the list of monsters I could find at least 20 monsters that would fit. Quite a lot of them would be red links, I think.
Also, dogs and wolves might deserve their own navbox, which would again be a bigger one. Terezka (talk) 11:55, 5 January 2019 (UTC)
Equipment A to G went through & possible candidates: Ancient cork, Cocktail umbrella, Cup of woe & Goblet of fire. -- S624 (talk) 13:00, 5 January 2019 (UTC)
Equipment H to Z went through & possible candidates: Liver warmer, Milk moustache, Oktobervest, Old barrel & Tropical punch. -- S624 (talk) 15:36, 5 January 2019 (UTC)

β”Œβ”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”˜ The best place to work off for picking article subjects, in terms of impact to the wiki, is Special:WantedPages. Top-to-bottom. That'll eliminate the most redlinks. -- FeRDNYC (talk) 19:20, 5 January 2019 (UTC)

Hah... so, I posted this just this morning, added two monsters (that probably should have been included from the start), and we're already back down to one monster left. Monsters are crazy popular.
GodS624 , good finds on those equipment items, that was a super-thin section. Can you throw them up on JanuWiki 2019 and Template:Navbox JanuWiki 2019 for us? Split equipment and taverns into separate tables if you want.
A quick glance at the top of Special:WantedPages gives us the boss-monsters followed by the existing JanuWiki content (cause, y'know, lotsa red links). Then down the page of the top 100 comes other things in navboxes, which includes the bears and, as I type this, the cats navbox is going up on all pages cattish (great work GodTerezka !). So, I think I might call an audible on this now:
Lagers and Tigers and Bears, Oh My!
  • Lagers: Beer related items, already covered.
  • Tigers: All things cat-like
  • Bears: All things bear-like
  • Oh My!: Boss-monsters!
Priority 1: Getting the redlinked monsters from Template:Navbox ursidae, Template:Navbox cats, and Template:Navbox bosses up on JanuWiki 2019, as well as into Template:Navbox JanuWiki 2019
Priority 2: Sorting through stubs/pictures needed on same
Priority 3: Tracking down artifacts, equipment, etc related to cats, bears, or bosses
Priority 4: Finding the stubs and emblems needed amongst Template:Navbox towns (Let's put towns on the list, why not?)
I'm gonna try to get no. 1 done straight away, before I fall asleep... -- Djonni (talk) 19:44, 5 January 2019 (UTC)
Well, got as far as adding a table of redlink cats to JanuWiki 2019#Pick a subject..., which is a lot of juicy red links for people to chew on for a while. Bears and bosses can come soon.
Haven't updated the navbox but, y'know, it's bedtime, so. G'night! -- Djonni (talk) 20:02, 5 January 2019 (UTC)
Equipment: Can you throw them up on JanuWiki 2019 and Template:Navbox JanuWiki 2019 for us? - Tick.png Done & Tick.png Done -- S624 (talk) 20:06, 5 January 2019 (UTC)
Priority 3: ... equipment, etc related to cats, bears, or bosses - 9 equipment items found (felidae/ursidae): Awkward paws, Bear arms, Cardboard box, Eye of the liger, Eyepatch of the tiger, Flea collar, Latex catsuit, Lion's mane & Nekomimi. Currently in dungeon so not able to add to JanuWiki 2019 and Template:Navbox JanuWiki 2019 right now. -- S624 (talk) 20:39, 5 January 2019 (UTC)
Doing.png Doing... Tick.png Done I've finally finished fucking around with my GIF upload, so I'll take care of it. -- FeRDNYC (talk) 20:57, 5 January 2019 (UTC)
I also subgrouped the Monsters section of Template:Navbox JanuWiki 2019, added all of the "Tigers", and moved Bear Minimum to "Bears". -- FeRDNYC (talk) 21:36, 5 January 2019 (UTC)
For clarification GodFeRDNYC , it's Eye of the Liger in the equipment & omnibus list but added as Eye of the Tiger. Will edit this back unless you want to do it. -- S624 (talk) 21:43, 5 January 2019 (UTC)
Fixed.png Fixed, but in the future please be bold and just fix mistakes you spot. No reason to keep them around waiting to communicate their existence to other parties. Thanks. -- FeRDNYC (talk) 21:57, 5 January 2019 (UTC)

β”Œβ”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”˜ I also added all of the remaining redlinks from {{Navbox bosses}} to the event navbox, as the "Oh My!" monsters subgroup. (That would be: Exoskeletor πŸ‹οΈ Gastronaut πŸ‹οΈ Godbuster πŸ‹οΈ Grimelord πŸ‹οΈ Scaretaker πŸ‹οΈ Thug-of-war πŸ‹οΈ Wraptor). Adding those to JanuWiki 2019 now. -- FeRDNYC (talk) 22:04, 5 January 2019 (UTC)

I’ve been adding some monsters to the β€œLagers” section. To make the β€œcreate” links (whomever created those preloads, you are a wizard and I could kiss you) I have been carefully copying the relevant one-word or two-word link style from another monster and substituting the new monster name in the obvious spots. It seems to be working OK when I test the preload link, but... is there anything else I should be doing? β€” SourceRunner (talk) 01:51, 6 January 2019 (UTC)
You did exactly the right thing, SourceRunner, great work. You even used {{urlencode:...}} for names with spaces πŸ‘
The Navbox looks great, the JanuWiki page seems healthy. There's currently an article assigned for review to every editor, and more marked for review waiting, and about 10ish under construction. Lots of content coming down the pipe!
Now, strategic question: with so many red links now, should we hold off on adding the bears and keep them up our sleeve, or give everyone all the choices now? -- Djonni (talk) 09:06, 6 January 2019 (UTC)
I'd say throw them on now. If we need even more, there are 26 red links & a few stubs in {{Navbox dogs}}. -- S624 (talk) 18:34, 6 January 2019 (UTC)
Thank you for the check/confirmation, Djonni.
I’m partially inclined to agree with S624 about adding the bears now, but I’m partially thinking that we should wait a week to tease people. Sort of an β€œAchievemnt Unlocked: You gain Bears” situation. β€” SourceRunner (talk) 19:46, 6 January 2019 (UTC)

β”Œβ”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”˜Leaving the bears question open for now, looking at stubs amongst the boss-monsters makes me feel like there's just too many stubs there to sanely feature them all (that navbox is already having trouble buckling its belt after a meal). Open to suggestions as to how we encourage people to go hunting for stubs to expand themselves, like User:WardPhoenix did with Adminotaur? -- Djonni (talk) 12:19, 8 January 2019 (UTC)

Two Three more points:
  1. Yes, obviously, the navbox takes off its pants to eat dinner. Doesn't everybody do that?
  2. On the topic of engorged navboxes, at the end of JanuWiki I entend to pull from the navbox anything that remains undone, so that it's just featuring things that were completed during the month. That bloated behemoth can't stay afloat like that for longer than it absolutely needs to.
  3. Yes, bloated behemoths wear pants and belts.
--Djonni (talk) 12:23, 8 January 2019 (UTC)
And float! -- FeRDNYC (talk) 08:21, 9 January 2019 (UTC)

Quick start links

Once an article has been claimed & created, should we remove the quick start links as redundant? -- S624 (talk) 10:06, 8 January 2019 (UTC)

I've thought about the same thing myself, but the checklist for completing an article is already pretty long and I didn't want to add to it!
I think the answer is "Sure, why not?" :) It could be replaced with an {{m|done}}, or something like that. If you'd like to be bold and do that, it seems like a good idea to me. In the event that an article is un-claimed like Red Bull, we can replace the link with the text changed to Edit "Article name". -- Djonni (talk) 12:15, 8 January 2019 (UTC)
Will do later today. -- S624 (talk) 12:36, 8 January 2019 (UTC)
Tick.png Done (or Doing.png Doing... for those still in construction mode. -- S624 (talk) 21:43, 8 January 2019 (UTC)
Yeah, one of the things I specifically tested for, when we were setting those up, was the question of what would happen when a preload link is used for an article that does exist. Happily, MediaWiki simply ignores the preload information completely, so the link basically becomes a standard Edit link. Which means that there's no great urgency to removing them, as they can't hurt anything by sticking around. That being said, there's also no longer any reason to keep them around, so I think it makes total sense to update the tables accordingly. -- FeRDNYC (talk) 08:27, 9 January 2019 (UTC)

Suggestion regarding "Pick a subject" section

This section is essential for Januwiki obviously, but with time, a lot of entries are being done and the first thing we see in that section is a list of Done subject. And the overall list is fairly long already, especially on a mobile screen.

Since the reviewers kept the progress updated constantly, we have a redundant redundancy of done work (even more with the help request page). So maybe we could clean the already done work from the list, leaving only the not done (and maybe doing) entry on it?

On a side note the progress list is also growing big, but will be more problematic to reduce of course. WardPhoenix (talk) 01:01, 15 January 2019 (UTC)