User talk:Uni34

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This is Uni34's talk page, where you can send messages and comments to Uni34.

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Great changes to Navboxes!

Hey there Uni34!

It's great to see a new user throwing themselves enthusiastically at a Wiki project like you are with the Navboxes! Keep it up, because it's great! I just wanted to give you a heads up that I might undo some of your changes, and explain why. 😊 I don't want you to feel like you're doing anything wrong, because you're not!

The content of the Godwiki is focused around the game world of Godville, not the real world, and that game world works by different rules. One of the biggest aspects of the Godwiki world is, of course, the puns and jokes. That's reflected right through the Godwiki, where a good pun or joke is pretty much always more important than accuracy. On the Godwiki, creativity always wins.

So, to give you a more specific example: one of the changes you made which I'm going to undo is this one, where you: Merged cats and kittens (there’s not much point in separating them.). I'm afraid I disagree with you there! The point is that people like kittens, and there are enough of them in the game to justify them having their own category. And there was a joke which perhaps you missed: the group name was "Furspherae", which is mock Latin for "furballs." Which is, y'know... A bit funny and a bit cute. So, yes: in the real world, kittens are just immature cats, and nobody would reasonably separate them. In the game world, they're different if we say they're different, and they don't grow up into anything. They are, ipso facto, not categorically the same, if we say they aren't. And, for the sake of cuteness and a mock Latin pun, we say they aren't the same. 😊

I want to repeat that I encourage you to continue with improving and contributing to things on the Godwiki, including Navboxes! I'm excited to see you at work! But it's important to remember, we aren't here to accurately catalogue the real world, we're here to create funny, interesting content about the game that the entire game community enjoys just for fun and a giggle. Fun, humour, and creativity always comes first, and we work hard to encourage it in every way we can on the Godwiki. So just keep it in mind as you keep going, and keep an eye out for jokes worth preserving... and even better, jokes worth making at the expense of verisimilitude! 😄 -- Djonni (talk) 08:00, 4 November 2019 (UTC)

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Hello, Uni34. You have new messages at Talk:Main Page.
Message added by Djonni (talk) 12:12, 4 December 2019 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} template.

Whoa, that's a whoooole lotta redirects...

So, I'm starting to feel a bit weird about leaving you a lot of messages without any responses. I really encourage you to join the conversations, especially where they're concerning things you're interested in or working on. We are all on the same team here, working to make the Godwiki better, friendlier, and cooler, and communication and agreement are crucial parts of teamwork 😊

But, to the point. I really need you to pump the breaks on creating redirects. You may be used to how the other wiki works, or used to how things work on some other mediawiki installation(s), but things here are very different:

  1. Redirects are NOT filtered out of search results or autocomplete results. So now, typing "Template:F" into the desktop search bar returns pretty much nothing but junk.
  2. Nobody here has the power to delete an unneeded page after it's created, other than the Devs, and from their perspective, if they need to get involved it means some user of the wiki has created a problem that wastes their time (which is, frankly, precious), and that often results in some kind of discipline against the user, such as a temporary wiki editting ban.

I definitely wouldn't like that to happen to you, because I (we!) want your contributions and ideas here, just as we want everyone's.

I have some frank suggestions for you, alright?

  • Before you create a new page which isn't for a documented game item that exists on an established list page, I want you to really think twice before creating it, and then think thrice. Before you create a new page, answer these questions to your own satisfaction:
  1. Who's going to use this? Who is this page for, and what are they going to do with it?
  2. For redirects: Why would someone use this instead of the original? Do I have any evidence that this page title is needed as an alternative for the original?

And in support of the above, I strongly suggest that for the next little while you focus on:

  • Improving all the existing Godwiki content;
  • Observing the way things are happening here on the Godwiki; and
  • (I really can't emphasise this enough) Participate in the conversations where we are discussing the way we want things to be, seeking each other's opinions, feedback, and advice, and planning together what we do next.

If you're in doubt about something you're thinking about doing, talk about it. If you see something that looks like it's intentional but didn't quite seem right, talk about it. If you see a conversation about something you have an interest in, talk about it. If you see me or someone else doing something you don't agree with, talk about it. Yeah? This game, all of its content, all of the Godwiki, all of the Godwiki's content, all of the community, the forums, the guilds, this whole thing is made up entirely of just words. That's the only way anything works around here. :)

So, anyway, yeah. Back to the point. I'm going to have to try to get aaallllll those redirects deleted without anything happening to you, okay? I know your intentions were to make things better or easier, but please consider why you don't see a bajillion redirects created for every minor template. The only people using {{Floatable index}} or {{Floatable index full}} will be experienced editors who already know it exists, who will place it on an existing list page once and never need it again. So, the only users of those templates absolutely do not need a ton of redirects, and in fact having those there make it much harder to find the templates we need. If we start doing that for every little template we have, well, the Template namespace will just become completely unusable.

Whelp, this is ridiculously long now, sorry for the essay. Please keep looking for ways to helpfully contribute, and please continue to feel welcome as part of the community. 😊 -- Djonni (talk) 10:51, 6 December 2019 (UTC)

There is no guarantee that everyone who uses these templates is going to know which exact capitalization to use and whether to include spaces. That's why redirects are needed. If you use Category:Templates you won't see the redirects. Therefore, they can only get in the way if you use the search. For some reason, this wiki has not been configured to filter out redirects from search results. That really is a shame, as it means that either the search results are loaded with redirects or there aren't enough redirects. Wikipedia is not like this. It's not that the redirects need to be deleted, it's that the search needs to filter out redirects. --Uni34 (talk) 07:01, 7 December 2019 (UTC)
P.S. Use the {{delete}} template to mark pages for deletion. --Uni34 (talk) 08:00, 7 December 2019 (UTC)
Hey there! Glad to hear from you!
Erm, I do know how to mark things for deletion, thank you. Doing that has no impact on the above, I'm afraid. And I understand what you're saying about the search filters, because that's actually what I pointed out to you above.
Regardless, the fact remains that that isn't the way things are configured here, and so it's therefore a very bad idea to have a huge number of unused redirects. I don't really need to restate why, I think — if you're not quite sure why this is the case, please go ahead and reread the above again more carefully.
The crucial point is that, in order to use any template you must know a priori that that template exists, which really does tend to indicate that that user would know the name of the template. And we try our best to make template names sensible and clear (admittedly, this isn't, and hasn't always been, the case), such that a bunch of space and intercaps variations are not useful.
And one might assume that category: templates is complete, but that's a bad assumption. For example, when you created {{Floatable index}} and {{Floatable index full}}, you forgot to add any category tags — an easy mistake that I've made myself plenty of times, and so might anybody. So relying entirely on category: templates is not only a bad idea, but it's a horribly inconvenient one which vastly outweighs the puted merit of a large number of unused redirects.
We ought to be relying on evidence like Special:WantedTemplates to justify the creation of a template redirect. But even then, the better solution is to fix the incorrect template call in the page, or allow that editor the opportunity to learn the template they're using better. (Though please don't go creating templates for the three entries currently in Special:WantedTemplates, those are on abandoned User pages from times when the wiki didn't have people trading care of it, and are just straight up errors.)
Great to hear from you, and I'm glad to see you making edits. -- Djonni (talk) 11:38, 7 December 2019 (UTC)

Page capitalisation

So, page capitalisation is something that we're trying to agree on guidelines for over at Talk:Creators Manual#Capitalisation guidelines. And we haven't yet come to agreement on that, but I would like to point out that every single page here on Godwiki which is not a game object uses title capitalisation... so, unless we agree to change that convention (at Talk:Creators Manual#Capitalisation guidelines), title caps is the de facto correct capitalisation here.

Godwiki isn't Wikipedia, and though many of Wikipedia's style conventions make great sense, they may not always be correct to apply here. The page capitalisation conventions, for example, are counter-intuitive if you aren't familiar with Wikipedia's guidelines on them, and the vast majority of our users have absolutely no experience with any wikis at all, much less Wikipedia. For most of our users, seeing page titles that aren't in title caps will be wrong, instinctively.

So, if we're going to change the title caps convention to match Wikipedia's capitalization conventions, it needs everyone's agreement, and it needs to be consistent across the whole Godwiki — and that's quite a big project.

So... no more moving pages for Uneccessary capitalisation, when the page's capitalisation meets the de facto standard, yeah? We do need a proper capitalisation guideline, there's no doubt about it, there's always been inconsistency and a lack of clarity about how some articles should be named (especially things which are capitalised inconsistently in the game and dev blogs, like auras and pantheons). But I'm afraid that the List of articles are, at least for now, absolutely consistent in being title caps. That's just how it's always been done here, since the dawn of g.e..

Moving pages over an existing page on Godwiki has always been finnicky, but I'm going to try to reverse the moves gracefully. If we all agree on a new naming convention, then we can move all the title capitalised pages at once, and fix the huge number of double redirects that moving such highly-linked pages causes. But for now at least, our capitalisation practice is to use title case for articles like those. -- Djonni (talk) 04:16, 17 December 2019 (UTC)

Monster Euler Diagram.png

That diagram's good! It's much more visually clear than the truth table that's currently at Category:Monsters with conflicting type parameters. I think you should add it to that page, alongside the table, as another way to show people what combinations are possible. 😊 -- Djonni (talk) 06:14, 20 December 2019 (UTC)

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Hello, Uni34. You have new messages at Template_talk:Quote.
Message added 10:38, 30 December 2019 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} template.
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Hello, Uni34. You have new messages at Template talk:Navbox guidelines#Diary Guideline.
Message added 11:07, 30 December 2019 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} template.