User talk:Bibliophile

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Talkheader content

Hello there! ๐Ÿ˜Š

You're partially right in thinking you can't change most of the template text without changing it for everyone. As it's currently written, the template can take one parameter, |title=, which allows you to change the text at the top (which currently says This is Bibliophile's talk page, where you can send messages and comments to Bibliophile.).

There's two options to change it more, though, depending what you want to do.

Option one is that I can add other parameters to the template, allowing you to replace the |left= and |right= text respectively.

If you just want to tweak it though, there's another way. If you change the template to {{subst:talkheader}} and save it once, it will substitute the template in this page with the code that the template produces. You can then edit that to reflect exactly what you want to say. Downside is that any changes or improvements to the {{talkheader}} template won't be applied here (since you're no longer using the template), but it's very stable, and I don't see that that's a big downside. ๐Ÿ˜Š

Let me know by replying here if you'd like me to add |left= and |right= parameters to the template! -- Djonni (talk) 04:20, 9 September 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for the explanation! Thatโ€™s so helpful. Iโ€™ve been reading the guides, documentation, and talk page discussions trying to better understand this wiki works (wiki code, syntax, etc.). I realize it has it some quirks. ๐Ÿ˜Š
I originally just wanted to have something so I could create a talk page. I found the template and then began thinking, โ€œOh, what if I could make this or that change!โ€
So, I think the second method, using {{subst:talkheader}} will probably work best. I like the overall look of the template but want to tweak it. Working with the copy of the code would be great for me. I appreciate you offering to add the parameters, though. -- Bibliophile (talk) 01:54, 10 September 2020 (UTC)
Oh it's a pleasure. ๐Ÿ˜Š I'm happy to help anyone who shows an interest in the wiki.
I'm not sure how familiar you are with wikis in general, but here are a couple of pro tips that might help you play with the template above (or any).
  • The page at Special:ExpandTemplates will let you see the final code that a template will produce on a page. You could use this to preview tweaks to {{talkheader}} without the risk of saving your changes yet, and no risk of messing anything up. (It's actually very difficult to mess anything up around here, ultimately, there's very few mistakes that can't be easily undone.) Now, I might be remembering wrong with this next bit, but if I recall correctly: Special:ExpandTemplates page differs from using {{subst:}} in that ExpandTemplates shows you the final version of the page code, and {{subst:}} inserts the code that's one "step" down (so you should see the {{templates}} used in the template).
  • Pro tip: put User talk:Bibliophile into the "Context title" field to make {{talkheader}} render correctly on the Expand Templates special page.
  • Either way you play with it, you're going to end up with something a lot less neat that simply putting {{talkheader}} on the first line of the page. But if you still want to keep it neat, you can make a subpage to store the code away, and treat it like a template. Nothing especially magic about it, you can just create a page like User talk:Bibliophile/talkheader (or whatever you like), and then use that page as the template: {{User talk:Bibliophile/talkheader}}. Subpages of your User: page can only ever be edited by you, which isn't necessarily a good thing (nobody can help you edit those pages if you want a hand, and user page vandalism is close to non-existent on the Godwiki), but subpages in any other namespace, including User talk:, can be edited by anyone.
I use subpage templates pretty extensively through my user page. Since my subpages are in the Main namespace under Djonni, I need to use the Colon trick to use them as a template (i.e., {{:Djonni/Votes}}). Since your subpage would presumably be in the User talk: namespace, that shouldn't be necessary in this case. -- Djonni (talk) 05:27, 10 September 2020 (UTC)
I donโ€™t have any practical experience with wikis, so I appreciate your tips! Sometimes I get tripped up just by mixing up the formatting used in the game forum/chronicle vs. the wiki. ๐Ÿ˜Š
Iโ€™ve been reading the MediaWiki Help pages linked to in this wiki to better understand some of the terminology and formatting. I also do have experience with other languages used in responsive website development (HTML5, CSS3, and JavaScript). Many of those concepts/syntax are similar in wikis so that it isnโ€™t completely foreign.
From my prior experiences, I admit that coding isnโ€™t my forte. Iโ€™m better at project management and/or coming up with ideas and spotting problems than manipulating code myself to achieve the result I want. It interests me, though, as much as it frustrates me.
I decided to finally create a User: Bibliophile and User talk: page partly as a way to improve my skills since I saw how the God template had parameters that enabled customization. Any changes, such as your helpful suggestions for the template, will be a gradual work in progress.
I hope to contribute more than that to the wiki, eventually. For now, Iโ€™m making minor fixes (typos, dead links, etc.) on the wiki pages I find. -- Bibliophile (talk) 19:22, 18 September 2020 (UTC)

Answering some of your questions ๐Ÿ˜Š

I hope you don't mind, but I saw your notes-to-self on your user page, and thought I could help. ๐Ÿ˜Š You have quite a few questions/notes that I can offer information about, so this'll be a bit long! ๐Ÿ˜…

separating or delimitating section with colors or border lines: One easy way to insert a section with a different color or formatting is to use a subbox. This is the method I've used for the temple section in my {{Usergod}}. You can take a look at how it works on my page: look for |customheader20 = {{infobox|subbox=yes|spacer=no to see the start of the Temple subbox. Now, I consciously set up my Usergod template to be a bit of a technical demonstration of things people can do if they choose, so I intentionally didn't use a subbox to change the ark section's formatting: each cell of that section is manually formatted, so you can see what that looks like.

As for border lines, you can certainly set any |customrowstylen=border-bottom: 2px solid color; (for example) if you simply want a strong/different border at the bottom of a row. Or if you like, you can combine a |customrowstylen= with an empty |customheadern=  (note that a truly empty header row wouldn't be rendered; that   forces a single space to appear in the row).

Other than my page, you might also want to look at WardPhoenix's elegant use of custom sections, and Sand Devil's coloring and highlighting. There's plenty of other examples, but that's enough to get a feel for it, I suspect.

The existing template documentation is slightly confusing. Can/how to mix use of custom parameters and existing ones?: Yeah, all of the options that you have when you decide to use the template in a custom way gets a bit complex, and writing clear documentation that isn't a million words long is not easy. If you think it can be improved please don't hesitate to improve it. ๐Ÿ˜Š Or, if you can explain what you'd like to do, and how you'd like to mix them, I can try to explain how to do what you want.

But I donโ€™t think the order of โ€œstandardโ€ parameters change in visual Infobox even if order of params is changed in God Template: Correct. The order thay named parameters appear will always be the same, that's the behaviour of all the infobox templates. If you'd like things in a different order, custom rows are the best way to do this. If this is with reference to mix use of custom parameters and existing ones, you can use the named parameters until the first row which you'd like to change the order of, and from that point on, you'll be using custom rows. If that makes sense.

Everything would have to be custom parameter with custom (sub)header for hero.: As per para above; everything from the first out-of-order parameter down would have to be a custom row, and yes, custom header and section for the hero. More on Hero below.

Chronicles... Collapsed in app but auto expanded on desktop, which makes page look unbalanced IMO.: To for my clarity: is this a comment on the wiki per se, or the differences between the way the in-game God page is rendered? As for limitations of text formatting in game vs. wiki, it's true, in-game chronicles use a super limited subset of the Textile markup used in the forums, which is completely different to wikitext markup. Bit annoying, but ๐Ÿคทโ€โ™‚๏ธ not much that can be done about it, I think. On a fancier mediawiki installation, we could build a plugin that displayed Textile markup correctly in the wiki, but the Godwiki is a very rudimentary wiki.

The {{Hero}} template: So, this time last year I was putting the last touches on the overhauled {{Usergod}}. The intention was to allow it to settle in, get feedback, learn from the way people used it (or didn't use it), and then give {{Hero}} and, eventually, {{Guild}}, a similar overhaul. Then, of course, the world fell apart, player activity and engagement across all of Godville dropped very low, and my own circumstances meant that I've not had the energy to take on a wiki project.

I've started eyeing that Hero template again, though. As you've observed, Is hero template even used much anymore? is a very good question. The original design of the Usergod and Hero templates had some serious user-unfriendly features and problems, which, combined with an overall hostile attitude to new and inexperienced users in the first half of the wiki's lifetime, meant that our poor Godwiki just never became as vibrant and fun a place as it should have been, and is a terrible shadow of the brilliant engagement they have over on the Russian version of the Godwiki. It's a looot of work, and a very slow thing to change, to undo a half decade of negativity, hostility, and bad design, but we're trying.

One of the design goals I have in mind for an overhauled Hero template is that I'd like it to be easy to drop it in as a custom section of another template (the Usergod, in particular, but the Hero template wouldn't know/care what it was embedded in). I think if it has that feature, it kind of addresses some of your questions above. (And, if it works, there's no reason why there shouldn't be a set of {{Temple}}, {{Ark}}, {{Lab}}, {{Playershop}}, {{Playerboss}}, whatever, all of which work as a standalone or subbox infobox.) Now, as mentioned, user engagement is at a low point right now, but we are coming into the norhtern Winter which is, historically, a time or increased activity on Godville in general and in the Godwiki in particular, and there's a handful of new, more active wiki users such as yourself. So, maybe this is a good time for me to start on the {{Hero}} rebuild... ๐Ÿค” If I were to do so, I'd be looking for people to help me with feedback, and testing, and advice. (It's neither realistic nor a good idea for one person to design something like that for the whole community on their own, that's how all the original bad decisions were made in the first place.) So, if you'd like to help me to reshape the {{Hero}} template into an attractive and user-friendly way for people to decorate their Godwiki pages, I would absolutely appreciate the input in whatever form it takes. ๐Ÿ˜Š

Anyway, as usual I've written a novel instead of a note. Hope this all isn't too overwhelming. Don't hesitate to ask clarification about anything that isn't clear, or tell me I've completely missed the point if I've completely missed the point. -- Djonni (talk) 06:56, 26 October 2020 (UTC)

Problem with saving your preferences

From Talk:Main Page#Facelift:

Not to get too much off the main subject, but I canโ€™t change any preferences on Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-editing or the other preference sections. Either in-app browser or mobile browser. Whenever I try to save, I get a lovely error message like: cbf25ed92a09b357d99092e0] 2020-11-03 23:16:02: Fatal exception of type "MWException". Is this impossible on mobile? -- Bibliophile (talk) 00:33, 4 November 2020 (UTC)

Huh... I just tried it myself on mobile, just to be sure, and I can save my Godwiki preferences fine. If you don't mind, I'd like you to report this as a bug to the devs (Ideabox -> Bug). Give them as much information as you can, obviously at least as much information as you've given above, but be sure to include what phone and browser you've used. If they have questions or they would like you to try anything they'll usually PM you directly to ask about it. Part of the trouble is that that error, "MWException", is completely generic and gives no information at all about what actually happened, so they may in fact need to enable detailed errors as described here on stackoverflow, and then ask you to repeat the error and give them the detailed description of the issue. ๐Ÿ˜Š -- Djonni (talk) 06:09, 4 November 2020 (UTC)

Had another thought: do you get the same issue if you go to the preferences page using the link at the bottom of the wiki (where your name and links to your user page, talk page, preferences, etc are), instead of using that link that takes you directly to the editing section? -- Djonni (talk) 06:22, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
I get the same result by using the preferences link at the bottom. Thatโ€™s actually how I usually access preferences. Iโ€™ve attempted it several times over the past months, but always get that error. Very puzzling. Later today or (probably) tomorrow, Iโ€˜ll attempt it all again with the different ways to retrace my steps and get all my facts together before reporting it as a bug. Thanks for the advice ๐Ÿ˜Š
You know, I think I read that StackOverflow link at one point when trying to research the error. I was like, โ€œUgh! That sounds like a pain.โ€ ๐Ÿ˜‚ Seriously, though, it has been going on long enough that it is obviously not a temporary glitch for me. -- Bibliophile (talk) 20:34, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
Yes, obviously not a temporary glitch, and if it's affected you, there's an excellent chance that it's affected an unknown other number of people who were trying to get more involved with the wiki. ๐Ÿ˜Š So, if you are able to report it and get it resolved, you'll have made a concrete and permanent contribution to improving the wiki forever!
It's more important that it's reported, than that it's reported with every scrap of information. My advice is to take one or two screenshots of it happening, and in the bug report say that you have screenshots if they're helpful. If they are, Godville will PM you and suggest you send them to (I may have done this once or twice before... I think I'm up to 31 accepted bug reports now, heh.) -- Djonni (talk) 06:01, 5 November 2020 (UTC)