Template talk:Warning

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This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Template:Warning page.

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Proposal to remove old warnings

Hi folks.

We have recently been reminded that in times past, this template was used to leave messages that many users found to be discouraging and far too harshly worded.

This template is currently transcluded on 78 talk pages (74 of those are user talk pages), the most recent of which was left in 2012. I would like to go through and remove those old warnings, but I don't really think I should make that decision without consulting people.

I'm also not sure if the messages should simply be removed, or if a short message should be left with an explanation. Opinions? -- Djonni (talk) 16:56, 8 November 2019 (UTC)

Those message could probably be removed (since they are kinda agressive and not representative of GodWiki current mindset), but wouldn't that be against Rules#2? Even though, I guess the concerned people aren't there anymore and that wouldn't cause drama in theory... --WardPhoenix (talk) 14:00, 13 November 2019 (UTC)
Mmm, I wonder if this is a reasonable way of breaking Rule 2, if we agree that it's a good thing to do. But you're right, I would feel like removing another person's talk comments would usually be unacceptable.
I'm going to {{talkback}} Delta493 on this talk topic. I hope {|||s}he won't mind, but as one of the people who had one of these messages left on their talk page, I'd like to hear their opinion on removing them. -- Djonni (talk) 21:37, 13 November 2019 (UTC)
Thanks for including me! I was going to leave mine up because ultimately, it happened, and taking it down won't change that. It's a bit like an old scar. I won't be offended if you take it down, but I don't want people to forget that this sort of thing did used to happen. Making a commitment to prevent something from happening again inherently requires one to remember that it happened the first time.
That said, leaving the warnings up may not be the best way to go about doing that. I think a middle ground is possible here. For example, the warnings could be replaced with a message promising that things have changed, thanking them for the contributions they did make, and saying that they're welcome to come back whenever they want. Djonni's message was very respectful and made me feel better about the wiki as a public, collaborative space. I personally would be in favor of making an exception to Rules#2 for this purpose. -- Delta493 (talk) 20:47, 18 November 2019 (UTC)
Since you asked for everyone's opinion. I think those messages should stay or should be removed by their respective owner. Can't rewrite history, it'll make someone feel their experience was trivialized. Following up with an apology that we no longer work that way would be better. Although, I do like the above suggestion of middle ground. It still acknowledges what happened with a visible reminder why we need to be better. --Sand Devil (talk) 21:12, 18 November 2019 (UTC)
Thank you all for your opinions and suggestions. I think I've got an idea about how we should go ahead with this. 😊
Instead of removing or replacing the notices, how about we draw a literal box around them and recontextualise the message, something like this:
Imbox notice.pngThe following message was left here a long time ago:
Warning signThis is a mean old message! Grrr.

The message above does not represent the values we share and promote here on the Godwiki today. We no longer allow new users to be discouraged or treated unfairly, and we are very sorry that you were spoken to this way in the past.

We want you and everyone to know that all are welcome here, and that these days, advice and support are offered with positivity and encouragement. Help is available for anything Godwiki-related at Help:Requests, and we would love to see you return and contribute to the Godwiki any time.

Sincerely,

All of us.
I need some input on the wording (I lifted much of it from my original message to Delta493) and perhaps it's too long? But aside from those details, what do we think of this was a way to handle these and any mean old messages we find in our travels around the Godwiki? If we like this approach, I suggest we make the edits, post a brief explanation on Talk:Main Page pointing to this conversation, and perhaps a short message on the forum which may encourage others who were scared away to come take a fresh look. -- Djonni (talk) 06:33, 19 November 2019 (UTC)

β”Œβ”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”˜ I'd like to revive this old discussion of the warning template. 😊 -- Djonni (talk) 08:16, 26 October 2020 (UTC)

To be fair, from what I think now, we could use the presence of rules and recommandations to say "well we don't want this kind of content and mindset to be on Godwiki" and thus just remove the warning template and content with the Rules on our side.
Though , if you want to keep the original idea to keep it for history and say "see this? this is bad" you're example from above is good enough to me. --WardPhoenix (talk) 16:22, 26 October 2020 (UTC)
Okay, I've had to do a pretty big (but necessary) rewrite of both {{sign}} and {{warning}} so that it will actually work πŸ˜† On the upside though, our hatnotes across the wiki will now be waaay more robust and less likely to be broken by unusual content or formatting wikicode.
But anyway. I definitely hear what you're saying about simply relying on the rules and guidelines from here on, but I really feel like there's value in recontextualising the old messages that still linger. Over the years, players have had these left on their pages, which in many cases has left them with lingering bad feelings about the wiki. If those messages simply disappear without notice, it doesn't do anything towards altering that bad feeling. I think we should be active about inviting people back, and we should advertise to them and anyone who stumbles across these old messages that things are different.
So I think I'm going to be bold and go ahead with a message like that above, slightly tweaked. Please feel free to improve or adjust it in any way that seems good. 😊 -- Djonni (talk) 07:26, 28 October 2020 (UTC)
Well okay, I decided not to be too bold πŸ˜… This is the final draft I came up with, last chance for anyone to offer an opinion before it goes up:
🌈The following unfriendly message was left here a long time ago:
Warning signWarning

Leaving hostile messages like this isn't how we do things now. The values we share and promote here on the Godwiki today are friendly, inclusive, and helpful. We no longer allow new users to be discouraged or treated unfairly, and we are very sorry that you were spoken to this way in the past.

We want you and everyone to know that all are welcome here, and that these days, advice and support are offered with positivity and encouragement. Help is available for anything Godwiki-related at Help:Requests, and we would love to see you return and contribute to the Godwiki any time.

Sincerely,

— All of us.
If there's no objections I'll make this change in a couple of days. -- Djonni (talk) 07:39, 28 October 2020 (UTC)

β”Œβ”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”˜ Looks good to me. -- WardPhoenix (talk) 18:35, 28 October 2020 (UTC)

Wow! Just saw this now, and as someone who recently coached several people through cyber bullying, this is an amazing response to the issues that had existed on godville. I would say maybe add an emoji or two to the message, it makes it more friendly and less official sounding. I think that the message as is seems to come more from godville itself (whoever that is) as opposed to the community (all of you friendly peeps out here). It makes the message slightly more personal and feels more real. We want to promote acceptance of people instead of criticism as Djonni has been so good at showing, and a virtual hug means so much to people who have been on the receiving end of a virtual punch in the gut. Great work! --His portliness (talk) 21:59, 28 October 2020 (UTC)