Talk:Main Page/Archive/2018

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Formatting Infoboxes in the mobile view

I'm considering a rather radical change to how the formatting is done to embed Infoboxes in wiki articles. (Infoboxes are the boxes in the upper-right corner of many articles, generated via templates like {{Monster}} or {{Town}}, that present some basic stats common to articles of that type in a structured format.) This change would hopefully be virtually invisible in the desktop view, but it would greatly affect the mobile skin, for reasons I'll explain.

So, because this would be such a big change, I wanted to seek out input and feedback on both the theoretical and practical aspects:

  1. The idea itself
    Do people feel this is actually an improvement, or do they prefer the way it is now?
  2. The implementation
    Any bugs or technical issues that show up for people using different browsers/devices/etc.

Basically, the current mobile skin has a few unusual CSS rules that were thrown into it, no doubt to work around issues with formatting in the app browser. One of them, and IMHO the most problematic, is the one that forces all HTML tables in the article content to fill the entire width of the display. Since Infoboxes are tables, they're all affected by this rule, and the results are IMNSHO extremely poor. But, since it's in the site CSS, there's no way to turn that rule off without admin acces to edit that CSS.

However, I've found that it's possible to work around the rule, by abusing (I'll admit it) the code that handles right-aligned, thumbnail-sized embedded images. Those images are displayed in a very smart bit of code (in contrast to the heavy-handed table overrides) that responds to the width of the display device, formatting them normally (right-aligned, with text flowing to their left) when there's room, and automatically pulling them into the center of the screen with no text on either side if the display is narrower. In my testing I've discovered that the same logic can be activated for Infoboxes, and I feel it looks far better on both wide and narrow devices.

I've put two examples of my proposed formatting change onto a single page, User:FeRDNYC/TestMonster (ignore the name). There you can see copies of the body content for both the Ballpoint Penguin and Herowin articles, but with the Infoboxes updated to leverage the responsive image-alignment code.

If you view that test page on a mobile device, or in the mobile skin on the desktop (by scrolling to the very bottom and clicking "Mobile view"), you'll be able to see how the Infoboxes would be formatted following this change. Both original articles are linked to, so you can compare them to my version.

If anyone has a moment, please do check it out, especially if you have access to any type of mobile device. I've tested it in Google Chrome on my computer, and my Android phone, but I'd love to hear feedback from anyone who looks at it using an iPhone, iPad, or any other tablet device, as I don't have access to any of those devices to test it myself.

My thinking is, if people like this change and it doesn't cause any problems, that all of the Infobox templates across the wiki would be updated to override that width=100% styling and make use of the responsive formatting. Some other templates, like {{Diary}} and {{Diaryquest}} would probably also be included, though they'd default to being left-aligned instead. -- FeRDNYC (talk) 15:09, 1 July 2018 (UTC)

I have noticed problems with infobox formatting on mobile too, and wondered how amenable it would be to improvement. I admire your creative adaptation of existing features into unexpected implementations ;)
I'll have a chance to test it on an android tablet screen and in a handful of desktop browsers in the next day or two, but I've decommissioned all my iOS devices so someone else will need to take up that testing. Meanwhile, I might try to hunt for some of those infoboxes where I found myself cringing on mobile, if I can find them again, and try to view the test examples you've made up in as many various ways as I'm able. --Djonni (talk) 03:14, 2 July 2018 (UTC)
Cool, thanks. For the most part, the ones that have seemed problematic on mobile were probably ones where the forced width causes weird explosions of the table borders. Like, you'll have an infobox that randomly grows a big empty column to the right of its content. There's a bunch of that scattered around the wiki.
If the width is no longer being forcibly expanded (or, if it is, but only within the <div> container that holds it, which is where the width is constrained) that should no longer happen. Honestly that issue is the main impetus for me doing this, as there's no good way to account for a CSS-forced width=100% !important from within the HTML source. -- FeRDNYC (talk) 11:48, 3 July 2018 (UTC)

It's time: Diary and Diaryquest templates now default to new "superhero" style

I've just updated both templates to use the new superhero style by default. As a result, all quest and diary boxes on the wiki should now go from looking like this:

Hero's Stats ↓
Invent the wheel
Hero's Diary ▼
4:20 Wrote something irreverent and snarky about a town or quest or whatever

To looking like this:

Invent the wheel
!Hero's Diary
4:20 Wrote something irreverent and snarky about a town or quest or whatever

You can revert boxes to the old style by adding "style=hero" to the template parameters. -- FeRDNYC (talk) 08:47, 10 June 2018 (UTC)

Larger images in {{Monster}} and {{Pet}} articles

You may notice that Monster and Pet articles show off their subjects a little better now. I've increased the infobox image width from 200px to 300px, a 50% size increase that better fits the infoboxes' 25em width. -- FeRDNYC (talk) 01:29, 3 August 2018 (UTC)

Looks much better now on both desktop and mobile (6" android w/ chrome). The monsters will look even better once the code has been tidied up to remove the dead right-hand column :) --Djonni (talk) 02:04, 3 August 2018 (UTC)

Mobile layout of main page

I'd be great if this wiki could have a "mobile version" or something, but I don't know how to properly check for that. --ElectroChip (talk) 15:10, 9 May 2017 (UTC)

I agree (as do most users, I think) that the main page has some significant layout problems on mobile (mainly around the grey Welcome to the GodWiki block at the top). Reading FeRDNYC's brief summary below of the challenges of setting layouts can give you some idea why, but the root of the problem is that, with no active admin at the moment, there's nobody right now with the powers required to modernise the site's CSS to be responsive to the dimensions of the window. Anything we do in the meantime will be a kludgy hack that might improve some layout issues, but generally we'll have to choose between the front page looking great on desktop or on mobile, not both.
That said, if anybody wants to take a bash at a rebuild of said grey block, please do! I'd suggest pasting any proposed changes into this talk page first so that we can all compare how they go on our various desktop and mobile screens first :) --Djonni (talk) 09:04, 9 June 2018 (UTC)
See User:FeRDNYC/Sandbox — it's very much a WIP, but in my testing it sizes properly (but not "formats" 100% properly, yet) on mobile devices. The gray-box bulleted items are coded as a single bulleted list, which uses a fairly new (past 3-4 years) CSS column-formatting feature to split itself up according to the available space. So, hopefully it's supported everywhere it needs to be. I already have a plan to clean up the strip of links at the bottom of the gray box, and I'm still working out the balancing of the various sections below the gray box so that they don't get chopped up by the column balancing. -- FeRDNYC (talk) 22:35, 2 August 2018 (UTC)
Never mind the struck-out part, I sorted that out. I removed a couple of items from the horizontal list (the Guidebook and the Categories list), because (a) they're both available in the sidebar, and (b) in the case of the Guidebook, I just feel it's a lot dated, and could really use some updating if we want to point people at it.
That part of the box is formatted as four one-item columns, which reduces a little weirdly as it narrows. (It first goes down to three columns, but since there are only four items it only fills the left two of them, leaving a big empty area to the right. Then it drops to two columns and everything balances again.) But honestly, as a tradeoff for it being readable on all screen sizes I think that's acceptable. Please do weigh in if you have any thoughts, though. -- FeRDNYC (talk) 23:20, 2 August 2018 (UTC)
I admit, I had noticed the edits to your sandbox and had a peek the other day. I'm excited about the changes and progress, and look forward to a modernised main page! :) One note — with the 2 columns reflowing in the lower section, on desktop I am currently seeing "Edition May 14, 2018" orphaned at the top of the second column. I'm not sure if there's any sane way to prevent that behaviour, just worth noting at this stage.
And yes, the Guidebook pages need a huge amount of work. I'd mentally earmarked that... for mañana. --Djonni (talk) 02:12, 3 August 2018 (UTC)
Yeah, that issue is what I was referring to, with my (somewhat redundant, as I balance the balanced balancing) note about "working out the balancing of the various sections below the gray box so that they don't get chopped up by the column balancing." It's not meant to do that — and honestly, if it wasn't doing that I'd probably consider it complete, since with the horizontal list "fixed" well enough it's kind of the only issue left — but currently, it still is doing that. And I suspect is going to keep doing that, as long as I'm (ab)using columns for that part of the layout.
I'll probably have to switch that section from CSS columns to a different layout system, possibly CSS flexbox, to make it keep those DIVs intact. Just as soon as I work out how (or if) I can convince flexbox-or-whatever to auto-adjust to width, the way columns does so nicely. (And without requiring any media queries, which inline styling can't use.) -- FeRDNYC (talk) 02:52, 3 August 2018 (UTC)

────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────Okay, checkout User:FeRDNYC/Sandbox again, which I think is now ready as a complete reimplementation of the Main Page that works at all display widths, including on mobile. It depends on two new-er technologies, CSS columns and CSS flexbox, but support for both of those was sorted out long enough ago that everything seems to support them now, including the Godville app's browser (at least on Android). So, it should reflow to a comfortable layout everywhere, on screens both wide and narrow. On very narrow screens, note that the Intro to Godwiki section actually places itself before the Featured Article section, an enhancement made possible by flexbox. (The top row is actually a two-item flexbox, flowing in row-reverse order, and the Intro section is the first item in that part of the page.) -- FeRDNYC (talk) 02:07, 6 August 2018 (UTC)

So, all of this nonsense with the new infoboxes makes me realize that I'll need to check how User:FeRDNYC/Sandbox looks in the WPTouch skin, in addition to the other two (Vector/desktop and Minerva/mobile). Not looking forward to that, so I think I'll put it off until another day. -- FeRDNYC (talk) 21:10, 7 August 2018 (UTC)
While on hold on my phone (sigh) I took the time to check this all out and it looks just fine to me. I mean... for given value of fine.
It looks fantastic on desktop and mobile browser (Vector & Minerva) and I think it should go live immediately. The only thing worth considering is to add a note to the bottom with the magic link for WPTouch users. Perhaps:
Enable [ mobile-friendly view].
or something similarly straightforward would be enough? --Djonni (talk) 06:00, 13 August 2018 (UTC)
Yeah, I was thinking I'd look in the CSS for a class that might only be visible in WPTouch, in which case that link could be hidden behind that. There might not be one, but it can't hurt to look. It just means I have to dig through the three governing CSS files, which I haven't done yet.
As far as bringing it live... based on your screenshots (thanks!), I may be able to improve the WPTouch rendering a bit, first. Like, the squished-together lettering of the title is clearly a line-height issue, I should be able to specify a value to get it to stop doing that, so let me see if I can squeeze that in.
I don't know why the random image isn't... like... randoming. Or image-ing. One of those. But I'll try to figure it out. (Just, not very hard, because I care thiiiis 👌 much TBH.) -- FeRDNYC (talk) 06:40, 14 August 2018 (UTC)
OK, significant changes. I fixed the line height for the first two parts of the gray-box header. And, this?
"I was thinking I'd look in the CSS for a class that might only be visible in WPTouch..."
Believe it or not, I found one. Or, a combination of a class and an ID, each of which is hidden in either Vector or Minerva, but neither in WPTouch. So, by abusing those together, I've set it up so that at the far, far bottom of the page, a link to switch to the mobile skin should appear only when the page is viewed with the WPTouch skin.
Haven't really looked at the random image thing all that closely, yet. It seems to be mostly working OK for me, so it's possible nothing's wrong, and you just caught a bad image pull when you took the screenshot. Possible. (Unlikely.) -- FeRDNYC (talk) 09:02, 14 August 2018 (UTC)
Oh, DUH. Actually, there was nothing wrong with the randomimage in your screenshot, it just happened to catch that tiny "fast-forward" type icon, so the caption squished underneath it. Well, that'll happen. (I actually could move the text out of the image caption, now that I've got the page resizing properly, and it wouldn't do that anymore. I'll mull it over. Wouldn't really make too-small image pulls all that much prettier, anyway.)
So, I guess this is maybe ready already, now? Hmm. -- FeRDNYC (talk) 09:05, 14 August 2018 (UTC)
What the hey. Taking live. If it breaks anything I'm sure we'll hear about it. -- FeRDNYC (talk) 05:33, 16 August 2018 (UTC)
I got rid of the text in the random image box entirely, BTW. It's already titled "Random Image", so the caption was really kind of redundant. And it had a tendency to format poorly with different sized images, and/or different sized screens/skins. -- FeRDNYC (talk) 06:40, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────My goodness it looks SO good. Haven't checked it in WPTouch (because yech) but certainly on all my devices in both of the other stylesheets it looks outstanding. Though a part of me kinda misses how inaccurately named the Featured Article of the Week was 😋 --Djonni (talk) 17:37, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

Yup, even on yech WPTouch it looks fantastic (and is even more noticeable in contrast to how it was). One thing I've only just realised — on the mobile skins there's no link to Talk:Main Page. It lacks the normal "Discuss" button at the bottom. I'm so used to coming here from recent changes that I'd never even noticed that before. Makes it harder for folks on mobile devices to find this, or even know it's here. #mobileproblems --Djonni (talk) 17:54, 17 August 2018 (UTC)
Heh. "Though a part of me kinda misses how inaccurately named the Featured Article of the Week was" — I'd actually changed that last week, on the old version, so that predates this update.
I had, at some point, noticed that there's no link here from the main page, making it an especially poor place to use for announcements and such. Oh well. I'm developing a very zen ability to just not really care about mobile's foibles, as there are so many. -- FeRDNYC (talk) 20:22, 17 August 2018 (UTC)
I added a note at the bottom of {{Mainpageintro}} about the main page's Discussion area, with a link to it for mobile users. Which makes the Intro box quite a bit longer than the Featured Article box, but... meh. Now we have the option to feature longer portions of the selected article, if we want. -- FeRDNYC (talk) 04:37, 18 August 2018 (UTC)

New shortcuts for numbers with superscripted ordinal (e.g. 1st)

I just borrowed the {{Ordinal}} template from Wikipedia, and created convenience templates {{1st}} {{2nd}} and {{3rd}} for anyone who wants to write numbers all fancy, like:

Code Output
{{1st}} 1st
5{{2nd}} 52nd
-10{{3rd}} -103rd
{{Ordinal|57}} 57th

NOTE: Please do not use these shortcuts in links or template calls. "1st" is not the same as "1st", and they cannot be interchanged in code, i.e.:

  • The 1st Line of Defense guild article cannot be linked to with [[{{1st}} Line of Defense]].
  • If you wish to get extra-fancy, you can write:
[[1st Line of Defense|{{1st}} Line of Defense]]
which produces: 1st Line of Defense.

Also, be aware that unlike Wikipedia's Ordinal, ours only does superscripts. They're always enabled. -- FeRDNYC (talk) 06:10, 10 July 2018 (UTC)

I've put this neat little template to use in my page's infobox! Very nice :) --Djonni (talk) 08:54, 2 August 2018 (UTC)

First two mobile-friendly infoboxes are live! (Please test!!)

Everyone, the first mobile-friendly Infobox (see "Formatting Infoboxes in the mobile view") is now live. All Pets articles that use a Template:Pet infobox (that would be all of these) will now have an infobox that will adapt to your screen size when viewing the page.

Update: As of 23 July 2018 02:45 (UTC), Template:Town is also upgraded with the mobile-friendly layout , so on any page that uses {{Town}} the infobox should adapt to the screen size automatically. -- FeRDNYC (talk) 02:50, 23 July 2018 (UTC)

I'd like to ask as many users as possible, if they have a chance, to look at as many Pet articles as they can, and on as many types of devices as we can get sampling from. Whether it's a tablet device, any model iPhone or Android phone, heck even an old Palm Pre or whatever. And if you just want to check it out but don't have access to any of those, you can use the Mobile view link at the bottom of any page in the Godwiki to switch into the mobile skin from your desktop browser. In fact, that can be some of the best testing, because then you can change the window size and see how the page responds.

What you should see, if there are no problems, are:

  1. Right off the bat, the infobox is cleaner in ways you probably won't notice, but trust me, it's there. While I was updating the code I corrected a lot of structural errors that were causing lots of extra table rows, double borders, etc. All of that should be gone.
  2. Other than that, in the desktop browser view there should be no visible difference whatsoever.
  3. In the mobile view, what you should see is a page that keeps the normal formatting with the infobox on the right and text flowing to its left, unless the window/screen becomes too narrow, in which case the infobox will center itself on the page and push the text down below it. This should happen pretty seamlessly in a web browser (in mobile view) as you narrow the window.
  4. On a phone, most likely the page will start out with the centered, no-text-alongside infobox, as it's meant to.

Please report any issues you see, either here or on my talk page. I'd like to get the rest of the infoboxes updated next week, if there are no concerns about the Pet articles. -- FeRDNYC (talk) 02:54, 21 July 2018 (UTC)

I just fixed a couple of issues with the {{Pet}} infobox sizing on mobile, one that blew out the frame too wide on narrower devices, the other that made the box too _narrow_ on wider screens (like tablets). -- FeRDNYC (talk) 10:20, 22 July 2018 (UTC)
I checked on your update to the pet template, and on my iPhone 5S, the box is blown out to the left. It does look a lot better, minus the shift to the left -- Holy Spirit of Hell (talk) 01:08, 24 July 2018 (UTC)
Hmm, thanks. I'll take a look. Not immediately showing up on my phone, but I'll poke around with the mobile browser skin, and some device simulators if need be. Did you happen to notice if it was the same on every pet page (or, if you looked at more than one, all of those)? -- FeRDNYC (talk) 03:29, 26 July 2018 (UTC)
Sorry, H.S.H., I can't seem to replicate. I tested the site in Safari on an emulated iPhone 5 and an emulated iPad Air, as well as in both Safari and Firefox on a real iPhone 6S (thank you, BrowserStack free trial!), and in every case the infoboxes looked as expected in both device orientations.
I captured a screenshot of the Terror Bull article on every one of those platforms/browsers I mentioned, in both orientations. There's a gallery post showing all of them here: — can you take a look and let me know if anything there fails to match what you're seeing on your 5S? -- FeRDNYC (talk) 04:28, 26 July 2018 (UTC)
In re-reading your comment, H.S.H, I realized I should maybe define "blown out" as I used it to describe the old infoboxes. The issue with the existing Infobox templates (the ones I haven't updated) is that the wiki mobile skin forces them to 100% width on any smaller-width screens. That can cause the columns of the infobox to become stretched wider than intended in ugly, weird ways. For example, here's the Bully Mammoth article on my Galaxy S6, in landscape orientation: . You can see that there's a large box to the right of the infobox, because the table that contains it is forced to be the entire width of the screen.
With the new infobox changes, that won't happen. (or, it's not supposed to, unless there's a bug in my changes.) Instead, what's supposed to happen is that the box will keep its specified width and just center itself on the page. If you're seeing boxes shifted to the left, but not distorted (improperly sized)... well, I'm not sure what's going on there, since as I said in my previous post I wasn't able to reproduce it in Safari or Firefox on BrowserStack's emulator farm. But, since I wasn't running the Godville app on iOS, it's possible that browser is slightly different. Still, if you can give me more details on the issue you were seeing, I'll try to look into it further. Thanks. -- FeRDNYC (talk) 06:15, 29 July 2018 (UTC)
It's now been a week since Holy Spirit of Hell's report of iPhone issues with the new infoboxes, and still no word back. H.S.H. doesn't appear to have been around the wiki much in that time, though... I guess I'll wait to the end of the week, and then decide how to proceed if I still haven't heard anything. -- FeRDNYC (talk) 01:30, 2 August 2018 (UTC)
GodHoly Spirit of Hell , when you say "on iPhone", are you using the Godville app's built-in browser for viewing the wiki? And, if yes, have you told the built-in browser you want the "desktop" view?
I ask because, for unfathomable reasons, the app's built-in browser's 'desktop' view uses totally unique CSS that is just awful and breaks a lot of basic Wiki formatting. What you describe sounds like standard SNAFU behaviour in that use case. --Djonni (talk) 08:51, 2 August 2018 (UTC)
Apologies for (re)joining the conversation on this late, I've been organising a move to a different hemisphere and it's taken more cognitive budget than I had available on a daily basis. While I'm not finished, I've passed enough milestones that my brain has a little more space again!
Taking a look at the Pets and Towns infoboxes live across a sampling of pages they look good so far on a 6" device (Chrome on Android) and a 5" device (Chrome on Android). All my other mobile devices are packed into storage, sadly!
I'd say it's ready to be rolled out further, pending HSH adding further information above! --Djonni (talk) 08:51, 2 August 2018 (UTC)
Well, no word back from Holy Spirit of Hell after a week and a half. I left a talk page message (only just now), hoping that might get their attention, but I'm inclined to go ahead with this as-is. I'll convert the rest of the infoboxes when time permits, and if we do hear anything back I'll look into it. -- FeRDNYC (talk) 02:15, 6 August 2018 (UTC)
Done, see below. -- FeRDNYC (talk) 11:19, 7 August 2018 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── Over on Holy Spirit of Hell's talk page, H.S.H provided this screenshot of the Terror Bull rendering, which is definitely not how it's supposed to look. Still investigating. I've requested a survey of how various other Infobox configurations render on the same device, now that they're all upgraded with the new code, so I can hopefully get a handle on exactly what circumstances lead to that glitch. Hopefully that'll get us closer to figuring out the "why", and then we can work out how to prevent it. -- FeRDNYC (talk) 19:50, 7 August 2018 (UTC)

Ohhhhhhhh, I see what's happening!
The rendering that H.S.H screenshot only occurs if you view the wiki using the desktop skin on a phone-sized mobile device, which isn't really wide enough to render that skin properly. If you view the pages using the mobile skin, they look fine.
One complication seems to be, if you switch to the desktop view in the Godville app mobile browser, it doesn't look like there's any way to get back to the mobile skin! The links that would normally be shown at the bottom of the page aren't there. However, this link should return the browser to the mobile skin: Switch to Mobile Skin.
I'm not sure how to prioritize solving the rendering issue with desktop-skin-on-mobile. My initial inclination is to not really worry about it (and instead focus on getting people switched back to the mobile skin). -- FeRDNYC (talk) 20:11, 7 August 2018 (UTC)
The issue, in a nutshell, is that the Godwiki can be rendered in one of three skins:
  • The standard desktop-browser skin, Vector
  • The mobile skin, Minerva
  • The desktop-site-requested-on-a-mobile-device skin, WPTouch
Without access to edit the site/skin CSS itself, it's generally possible to optimize for one or, at most, two of those, at the risk of causing issues in the third. Which is what we're seeing here. -- FeRDNYC (talk) 20:52, 7 August 2018 (UTC)
This is what I was trying (without much success) to refer to above. That switch to mobile skin link you found/crafted GodFeRDNYC  is pure gold, I and many others have had to delete and reinstall the app to fix that! That deserves its own (pinned) Talk topic here on this page, honestly. That skin (WPTouch) causes lots of layout and formatting problems, all over the place. Hitting switch to desktop on the GodWiki in the GV app's built-in browser effectively breaks the wiki, with no (until now!) way to switch back. --Djonni (talk) 02:21, 9 August 2018 (UTC)

Remaining Infoboxes updated with mobile-friendly code

I've just finished updating the {{Monster}}, {{Artifact}}, {{Beastie}}, and {{Guild}} Infobox templates with the same mobile-friendly code that was already in place on {{Town}}, {{Pet}}, and (the so-far-unused) {{Equipment}}. That covers every article-space infobox in the system, the only remaining ones are {{Hero}} and {{Usergod}}/{{Usergoddess}}, which I may get to at some point in the future, but they're lower priority.

Along the way, I cleaned up the code in all of them, to varying degrees (dependent on how bad the existing code was). And, some specific items of note:

I fixed the auto-categorization for the specialty categories (Category:Bold Artifacts, Category:Healing Artifacts, Category:Activatable Artifacts), which was completely broken as it was dependent on nonexistent parameters.
It now works off the |type= parameter, case-insensitively and ignoring whitespace, as follows:
Also, | monster = something will cause the article to be placed in Category:Monsters' Artifacts. (This is in addition to always placing the article in Category:Artifacts.)
This means that it should no longer be necessary to manually place Categories in Artifact articles at all (if they are using {{Artifact}}), and when editing an article that uses the template it is preferable to remove redundant manual categories. This is so that, if there is a mistake in the template data that changes the category when corrected, there will be no conflict between the categories exported by the template and the categories placed in the article.
This template got the biggest changes of all. In addition to massive code cleanup (it was a MESS)...
  • I completely re-wrote the processing of the multiple |founder= (plus |founder2=...|founder5=) parameters, to create a bulleted list of all the provided founders.
  • I re-wrote both the |friend1=...|friend8= and |foe1=...|foe5= processing, so that both Allies and Rivals are displayed as a bulleted list taking up a single cell, instead of one-row-per-entry like the previous code.
  • I increased the infobox width to 25em. I felt that was a better fit with the new bulleted Founder(s) list, as it tends to be wider.
  • |position=left is no longer available for this template, due to the mobile-friendly code change. That's true of all the infobox templates, post-change, but this template seems to be the one where position= was most used. Any guild pages designed around left-aligned {{Guild}} infoboxes will need to be redesigned to accommodate the right-aligned infobox. I apologize for the inconvenience, but I'm afraid it's a necessary tradeoff to get proper formatting on mobile screens.

If any of my changes tonight are going to be problematic for people, it's likely the changes to {{Guild}}, either technically (there might be bugs) or philosophically (you might object to the decisions I made). In either case, please bring up the issues here and we'll come to a resolution. -- FeRDNYC (talk) 11:18, 7 August 2018 (UTC)

Template:Navboxboss-monsters renamed to Template:Navboxbosses

The name {{Navboxboss-monsters}} just struck me as long and awkward to type, so I've renamed the template to {{Navboxbosses}}. The old name is now a redirect, so existing calls will still work and you can continue to use the old, longer name if you prefer. -- FeRDNYC (talk) 09:22, 14 August 2018 (UTC)

Reformat List of Quests?

Tick.png Done — The table is now a single-column list of quests and quest type. -- FeRDNYC (talk) 21:52, 11 September 2018 (UTC)

So, after determining that List of Quests looks basically awful in either mobile skin, with all of the columns squished into narrow oblivion, I'm considering reformatting it from the current doubled-up format to a single-column table like all the others. It'll make the page seem longer (and in truth they will be slightly longer in the desktop view), but that will be offset to an extent because all of the rows that are currently wrapping to two lines would flatten out to a single line. So, it won't actually be as much longer as it may seem.

And more to the point, it'll be vaguely readable in the mobile skin(s), which seems worth the extra length. Plus, it'll allow for column sorting and other niceties that the current format ruins.

I'd do the actual edit with a regular expression find/replace algorithm, downloading a copy of the page source and then re-uploading the reformatted version, I'm not crazy enough to do all that by hand. So, it wouldn't be too much of a chore. Still... any thoughts or feelings one way or the other? -- FeRDNYC (talk) 20:19, 26 August 2018 (UTC)

The silence was deafening, so I've asked at Talk:List of Quests as well. If I don't hear anything there in a few days, I'll just go for it. -- FeRDNYC (talk) 13:56, 1 September 2018 (UTC)
All sounds good, I say go ahead. —Holy Spirit of Hell (talk) 00:51, 3 September 2018 (UTC)

New Template:Equipment

I admit, it's not super necessary, but it just felt weird that we didn't have a Template:Equipment to go with all of the other infoboxes. So, now we do. It's very simplistic, but with 117 articles in Category:Equipment it felt right to start standardizing them. I'll probably try to go through and apply the template to those 117 articles starting next week.

Three items of note:

  1. This template is unique among the infoboxes in that it uses a generic image, if one is not supplied in the template call. (You can see the image on the template page.) However, it's definitely preferable to supply a specific image to override the generic one.
  2. I included the "Durability" stat that I noticed was already listed on many existing Equipment articles, even though TBH I'm not really sure that actually means anything. (Meaning, I suspect that equipment items can be found at any durability level. But, I could be wrong!)
  3. This template uses the new infobox code for mobile browsers.

As always, please report issues, either here or at Template talk:Equipment. -- FeRDNYC (talk) 01:15, 3 August 2018 (UTC)

The absence of an equipment infobox template has occured to me as odd more than once, and I love the default image (both in principle and in the specific choice). I feel like a default image is worth considering for other infoboxes, it's a quick way to add a little polish to stubs. Perhaps the default image field might include a caption with a link to upload a {{PAGENAME}}.jpg...? We've discussed #ifexists being expensive before, and it's probably unwise to include them in template defaults, but it sure would be elegant if a template found an existing PAGENAME.jpg file. Just brainstorming :) --Djonni (talk) 01:58, 3 August 2018 (UTC)
I'd be reluctant to do that (the {{{PAGENAME}}}.jpg thing) for two reasons. No, three. None of which have anything to do with the code performance.
  1. The images might not be JPGs. They might be .PNG files, or GIFs.
  2. It's preferable to let people use their own filenames for uploads.
  3. The previous is especially true when replacing images.
Say someone uploads a Terror Bull.jpg image. That image may be used somewhere in some other article. Now, if someone wants to replace the image in the Terror Bull infobox, the way to do it would be to upload a new image (with a unique filename), and update the template call. If they're given the impression the image "should be" named Terror Bull.jpg, and they upload their new image to overwrite the old one, then it gets changed everywhere, which may not be desirable to anyone who's used that image elsewhere.
I think we could have generic, "default" images for the other infoboxes, but they should be just that: A generic image that's used unless an image filename is specified. Typing a filename into the template call isn't particularly onerous. -- FeRDNYC (talk) 02:38, 3 August 2018 (UTC)
Mmm, you make good points there, particularly about replacing images. Perhaps just something like <small>[[Special:Upload|Upload]] an image.</small> would be enough. And a [[Category:Pictures needed]] might be clever, come to think of it? --Djonni (talk) 08:47, 3 August 2018 (UTC)
I think showing an upload link makes sense — good idea. Right now {{Picture}} only shows a page-edit link, which is only useful if you've already uploaded the file. Guiding people to Special:Upload as the first step in adding photos is probably more useful.
In fact, it might be possible to auto-template the page as {{Picture}}-needed if the default image is used. (Or just whenever the |image= parameter is missing, even in infoboxes that don't have a default image.) Whether or not that will actually work depends on whether the Godwiki css includes some form of the same classes that Wikipedia uses for message boxes, that forces them to the top of the page no matter where they're placed in the article source. Which, come to think of it, I bet it doesn't. ...Still, I can just stick the {{Picture}} template before the infobox code, and it should end up in the right place.
I'll take a swing at adding that (along with a parameter to override it, I guess, just for peace of mind) to some of the infoboxes, starting with {{Equipment}}. And also have them do auto-categorization into a sub-Category:Infobox picture needed on the same criteria. (Although {{Picture}} will auto-categorize the page into the general Category:Pictures needed, so maybe both is overkill.) This way, the modifications to the add-an-image flow (pointing to Special:Upload before / instead-of the edit link) can be made in the {{Picture}} box instead, and they'll benefit all pages it's used on. -- FeRDNYC (talk) 10:55, 3 August 2018 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── Yesss, putting {{picture}} at the head of the infobox is a very clever approach. And I don't hate having a special category for infobox pictures, I think that's a good category to have available when one's looking for some quick improvements to make. I personally would say that an infobox without a picture rises to a higher priority than a general stub without a picture, I don't think having it categorised both ways is overkill.

This is one of those times that having already updated the Guidebook would be helpful — {{picture}} could point to an upload-and-edit guide. Maybe it's worth touching that specific part of the guidebook up immediately. Doing.png Not now... (TODO) --Djonni (talk) 05:35, 4 August 2018 (UTC)

It's good enough, I think, to have {{picture}} point into Creators_Manual#Images without rewriting. Notwithstanding that it could be improved there. --Djonni (talk) 05:57, 4 August 2018 (UTC)
For the general case of "this article needs pictures", agreed, but actually for the Infobox case specifically it's kind of overkill, because they don't actually need to worry about any of that. To add an image to an infobox all you do is upload the file and enter the filename, you're spared having to worry about the intricacies of [[Image]] linking.
(And even when it comes to the syntax, if only the explanation at the top of Special:Upload actually demonstrated [[Image]] syntax instead of [[File]] and [[Media]], I might say it's as good as the one in the Creators Manual.) But, regardless, because infobox image-adding is even simpler, maybe we should have a special version of / path through {{Picture}}, where we just instruct them to upload a file and paste the filename into the template as an | image= parameter, rather than dumping all the rest of that noise on them? -- FeRDNYC (talk) 10:08, 4 August 2018 (UTC)
Limited on time right now, but wanted to say: 1) Yes, actually, that makes sense (not to point editors to the Creator's Manual just to add an infobox image). Perhaps a short, sweet ===Adding an image to the template=== should be in each Template:XX/documentation page, with a link in the default image table cell (e.g., <small>[[Special:Upload|Upload]] an image and [[Template:XX/documentation#Adding_an_image_to_the_template|put it here]].</small>)? --Djonni (talk) 02:34, 9 August 2018 (UTC)
Oh yeah, and point 2) I will (I will I will) start adding {{equipment}} to existing pages, aaaany day now. --Djonni (talk) 02:35, 9 August 2018 (UTC)
Tadah! --Djonni (talk) 08:03, 13 August 2018 (UTC)
And already up to 9 pages now, woo! 🤩 I shall honor your diligence by being lazy and continuing to not do any of those myself. 😏 You're Welcome™! (But maybe I'll get to that {{Picture}} stuff we discussed... after I sort out those last issues with the new Main Page.) -- FeRDNYC (talk) 08:12, 14 August 2018 (UTC)
Hey... hold off, if you can, before doing any more of these. I just had an idea. -- FeRDNYC (talk) 13:08, 14 August 2018 (UTC)
Never mind, idea implemented! -- FeRDNYC (talk) 16:12, 14 August 2018 (UTC)
Also, BTW, I didn't realize I'd broken the parameter check so that you couldn't include a blank image parameter without breaking the default image, but I've fixed that now. So, feel free to make an empty | image = part of your boilerplate, it'll work fine! -- FeRDNYC (talk) 16:14, 14 August 2018 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── Tick.png Done The auto-{{picture}} templating we'd discussed is now in place on {{Equipment}}. For the moment it just uses the standard Template:Picture, that can be adjusted later on if we develop any specific new flows. I've already taken the liberty of removing the manual (now-redundant) {{picture}} transclusions from the Equipment articles where you'd already added it (there were only a couple). -- FeRDNYC (talk) 04:11, 15 August 2018 (UTC)

The automatic {{picture}}ing looks better than I feared, looks seamless. If I notice any funny edge cases or anything as it gets rolled out I'll bring it to your attention but I can't imagine what. 👌 --Djonni (talk) 17:42, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

Many GodWiki pages need to be deleted

There are a lot of junk/clickbait pages that just redirect to the main page. Perhaps a moderator/administrator could look into removing them? --ElectroChip (talk) 16:22, 9 May 2017 (UTC)

There are certainly a lot of dead pages on the Wiki, which sadly right now doesn't have an active administrator other than the actual Godville Admin team who spending all their time hard at work on improving the actual game and its content for us all.
For now, we all can help a hypothetical future administrator do a deep clean of the wiki by adding the {{delete}} template to any page that you think an admin should remove one day. It's probably wise to provide a reason why you feel a page deserves deleting too, by doing something like {{delete|This page violates CP-symmetry and may cause vacuum decay, ending the Universe.}}
All pages that have the {{delete}} template on them appear in Category:Marked for deletion. This list will be one of the first stops, I expect, for any future admin to do a clean-out. (Hello hypothetical future admin, please know, if you're reading this, that we understand the very large pile of work you've been left with and deeply appreciate your hypothetical future work!)--Djonni (talk) 09:04, 9 June 2018 (UTC)
Just as a point of information, the pages that ElectroChip is talking about that "just redirect to the main page" most likely have been deleted, which is why they redirect to the main page -- without adminship, other users can't delete pages, but they can replace spammy/inappropriate page content with a quick #redirect[[Main Page]] to obliterate everything except the page title. I know that BlueStapler, and probably others, have taken the initiative to wipe out page-level spam and vandalism in that way, when necessary.
For truly deletion-worthy articles that just shouldn't be here at all, that's probably a better approach than setting the delete template since, right now, there's simply no expectation that'll ever be responded to.
The delete template still has its purpose, as it's a good way to indicate things like Templates that are no longer useful, or userspace subpages that the user no longer needs (since we can't even delete pages from our own userspace, annoyingly). -- FeRDNYC (talk) 14:43, 1 July 2018 (UTC)
I actually find it a little disorienting when an otherwise blank page simply redirects to the Main Page, particularly on mobile where redirects aren't breadcrumbed. Perhaps it's a preference-driven thing — I'd rather a clear {{delete}} tag on a dead page than an unexplained redirect to an unrelated default page. I also imagine a Hypothetical Future Admin finding a straightforward (if large) list of pages marked for deletion a little simpler than having to also go through the list of pages that redirect to the Main Page, though perhaps I'm too optimistic about the advent of the HFA. I seem to be an HFA Adventist, come to think of it, and act as if I believe that I can immanentize the coming of the HFA by preparing the Godwiki for His or Her manifestation... Hmmm. --Djonni (talk) 03:29, 2 July 2018 (UTC)
I won't dispute that it's disorienting, but how frequently does this really come up, in normal wiki use? Meaning, if you're not someone poking around behind the scenes?
Those articles shouldn't be linked to from anywhere, so the only way they're likely to be found by normal users is in search results. For those users, landing on a {{delete}} page dead-ends them while showing no useful information. They don't care that a page is flagged for deletion. OTOH, being redirected to the main page means they can continue browsing the wiki. For the average user with no interest in the administrivia of the wiki, that's likely the preferable outcome. -- FeRDNYC (talk) 12:29, 3 July 2018 (UTC)

Defunct Guild pages

A very large proportion of dead, short, unlinked, uncategorised pages are stubs that were created for guilds that no longer exist. I'm in two minds about how these pages should be treated, but I have a proposal.

  • I think we should have a new Dead guilds category (as sub-category of Category:Guilds)
  • I think we should have a new {{deadguild}} template that:
    • Uses the {{delete}} template as a basis, with similar design;
    • States that this guild is "not widely known on Godville";
    • Gives a link back to the so it's easy to check if the guild remains dead at any time;
    • Categorises the tagged page as a dead guild, obviously.

That way these pages aren't necessarily marked for deletion as such, but they are ready for a hypothetical future admin (HFA) to do a spring clean if the HFA decides to slough off that particular kind of dead weight. (Hello HFA, thanks again for your hypothetical future work!)

I would likewise propose that a page only be a candidate for tagging with {{deadguild}} if:

  • The URL for the guild states that it is "not widely known on Godville";
  • There have been no edits to the page for... lets say, 6 months? 12 months? This would allow baby guilds to grow enough to have a stat page.

The guild page could easily be checked by editing the candidate page, inserting the template, previewing the edit, and clicking the link in the template before saving your change.

Specifically, as an example:

RIP-gravestone grey.pngThis article is for a guild that doesn't appear to exist.
The guild stats page matching this article states that The “Alcyone” guild is not widely known in Godville. If you are a member of this guild, or can confirm that the guild now exists, please remove this template.

Any thoughts on this from anyone? --Djonni (talk) 00:40, 10 June 2018 (UTC)

HTML layout and the width attribute

It's months old, but I'm manually reversing one of Holy Spirit of Hell's good-faith edits to the layout of the main page, because it blew out the width of the page beyond the right edge of the viewport. In doing so, I wanted to drop a quick note about dimensions in HTML layout and the width attribute. (This isn't meant to shame you or call you out, Holy Spirit of Hell, and the whole reason I'm posting this info here, instead of on your talk page or similar, is that I'm sure there are multiple people who could benefit from it.)

Also, let me say that the following is at the very least vastly oversimplified. (Yes, even considering how long it is.) You should really be getting this sort of knowledge from good sources like Mozilla Developer Network (MDN) or even "meh" sources like w3schools, not from me. Hell, I'm sure at least one thing I'm about to say is just plain wrong... I just don't know which one(s)!

Specifying dimensions for layout elements in HTML is generally fraught with peril. But there are different levels of peril:

  • Specifying exact pixel dimensions (e.g. width="640px") is evil and should be avoided at all costs, it's one of the main things that makes pages lay out improperly in mobile browsers, just for starters. (Image dimensions are somewhat of an exception to this, though even there it's problematic if images are placed at fixed sizes with no regard for how they affect the content layout on different size screens.) Point size dimensions (width="10pt") fall into the same category, as points are a fixed-size unit that doesn't scale.
  • Specifying dimensions in em units (width="10em") is slightly better, as ems are related to the font size the content is displayed at, so they'll be autoscaled to match the device's base font size (as long as the font size isn't overridden using a pixel or point size!) Still, while these dimensions autoscale to fit the display size, they're frequently not predictable enough to use for layout. There is also the rem unit (width="10rem") which is relative to the root font size, making it slightly more predictable since it means the same thing everywhere on the page, no matter what font size is set for that content.
  • Specifying dimensions in percentages, if one must specify dimensions at all, is best, and for the most part it's how Godwiki is laid out. But it's important to know what those percentages mean.
    • A percentage width in HTML is interpreted relative to the width of the element's container.
    • For that reason, width="100%" is by far the most commonly-used dimension in HTML layout, and it simply means "expand to fill all of the horizontal space available to me".
    • Percentages less than 100% are used when elements are placed side-by-side within the same container, to adjust how how the available space is allocated among them. Generally, if percentage widths less than 100% are used, they should be specified on multiple elements laid out horizontally, so that they all add up to no more than 100%, and ideally to exactly 100%.
    • Percentages greater than 100% tell an element to grow larger than its container, which is almost never what you want to do and will cause all sorts of problems, from elements overlapping to elements sticking out past the edge of the screen. Browsers will try to correct for some of this (by autosizing child elements to smaller than the >100% container size, for example) but at the very least you'll end up with a jorizontal scroll bar for no good reason.)

So, that's why changing two width="100%" elements to width="110%" and width="90%" will never look as intended. The percentages still add up to the same (200%). The total width of the elements is nearly the same. (If their containers are different widths it won't be exactly the same, though. Observe: 110% of 600px is 660px but 90% of 400px is 360px, so the total width increased from 600+400 = 1000px to 660+360 = 1020px.) But instead of two balanced elements, we've now got one element that doesn't fill its container, and leaves wasted space alongside it, and another element that sticks out of its container and disturbs the layout of the surrounding content. The correct way to adjust the width of width="100%" elements is to find which of their containers define the respective widths (using something other than width="100%", either smaller percentages or specific units) and adjust those dimensions, while leaving the elements in question set to width="100%" as, again, that just means "fill my available space".

Oh, and last but far from least:

  • Best by far is when we can avoid specifying widths at all, and allow HTML to flow the elements automatically. The width of block elements will automatically expand to fit the content they contain, up to the size of their containers. That's usually what we want. width="auto" makes this explicit, and specifying it can be useful if explicit widths were set elsewhere that need to be uninherited. width="auto" is also better than width="100%" because it accounts for things like padding and margins, whereas setting 100% width can force elements into those spacers (or force those spacers beyond the screen borders) under certain circumstances.

-- FeRDNYC (talk) 14:04, 3 December 2017 (UTC)

I'm actually going to amend this, some, to say that when talking about the entire page width (or, the entire content-area width, not counting things like sidebars), percentage widths are also some of the worst things you can use. In those contexts, "real" dimensions like em widths are far better than percentages, because those widths scale intelligently with the screen size, whereas percentage widths don't.

Some of the biggest problems we've had with formatting the wiki to be mobile-friendly have been with content formatted with something like width=60% or whatever. The problem is that the same content is going to take up 60% of the width of any screen it's displayed on — which is probably fine, for a desktop browser, but clearly is going to be a problem in a phone browser.

In fact, it was only by setting the width of {{Diary}} and {{Diaryquest}} to pixel values that I was able to make them readable on mobile browsers. (And I'm experimenting now with changing those widths to em widths, to better scale to different pixel densities.) By the same token, updating the Main Page sections to use em widths instead of width=55% and width=45% was a big part of creating the new mobile-friendly layout. (The other part was formatting them with CSS flexbox, so that they'll automatically rearrange themselves vertically if there isn't enough room on the screen to fit them side-by-side.) -- FeRDNYC (talk) 10:04, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

{{Diary}} and {{Diaryquest}} now both specify their minimum width or width (respectively) as 18em, to better scale with different screen dimensions and pixel densities. That has almost certainly changed the size of your existing boxes, and may even have changed it differently on different screens. Sorry, but OTOH this can also serve as a reminder that the Web is not a desktop publishing platform, and is not intended to be laid out like a magazine. Web content will always be resized and reformatted to serve the needs and interests of the reader, not the author — and this is as it should be. -- FeRDNYC (talk) 15:22, 20 August 2018 (UTC)

New mobile-friendly Main Page

The Main Page of the wiki is using a new layout that should automatically size itself to your screen, even on mobile devices. Please kick the tires, but if we get a flat it's your fault! 😜

The page will look not-great-at-all in the "Desktop" mode on a mobile browser. That skin is just terrible and nothing will ever look very good in it. However, in the interest of saving people from its awfulness, when you are viewing the site with that skin (only), the bottom of the main page will now include a link to "Switch back to the mobile skin". -- FeRDNYC (talk) 05:51, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

Right now, the ‘desktop skin’ for mobile is much easier to navigate around, due to the smaller font, the mobile version has a lot of scrolling around. For any further improvement, I’d suggest making the mobile fonts show up smaller if possible —Holy Spirit of Hell (talk) 03:52, 25 August 2018 (UTC)
Hmmm 🤔 I'd be pretty hesitant to permanently reduce font sizes on a particular platform like that (and without an admin, I doubt it's feasible). But you might find that opening the page in your phone browser, rather than the app, gives you more control over font sizing. I know in Safari on iOS it's pretty straightforward, less so on Chrome or Firefox, but still possible.
Considering how many Godville users are using low-cost devices with small screens, or have a vision impairment or other accessibility need, making text size and touch target size smaller than default seems a little problematic to me. --Djonni (talk) 06:18, 25 August 2018 (UTC)
I agree there are certain areas where the fonts are a little oversized, though the most glaring ones are things like section headings which we especially have no control over. We could change the body text size, but I'm not sure how much benefit there would be, and as Djonni says it could cause issues for other people using the wiki.
And when I say that, I mean we totally couldn't change the body text size, either — except by doing something completely insane, like editing every individual page to add some code. But even if we could (which we can't, realistically)... -- FeRDNYC (talk) 19:15, 28 August 2018 (UTC)
But it's true, the WPtouch skin definitely packs more text onto the screen, though I personally feel it's at the expense of comfortable navigation. Lists, in particular, are squeezed way too tightly together, making it difficult to tap on any individual item without potentially hitting an adjacent one. The mobile skin adds extra space between each item to help stave off that problem, and though I don't feel it's done in the most attractive way I do appreciate the effort.
I don't know if you've explored the mobile skin lately, H.S.H, but IMHO it's a lot better now that basically all pages reformat themselves to fit the display so there's no horizontal scrolling. Like I said, it definitely isn't as compact and space-efficient as WPtouch, but I feel it makes the right choices for the most part. Especially when you're browsing by touch, there is such a thing as too compact. The way the Godwiki mobile skin renders is pretty much equivalent to standard Wikipedia's mobile rendering, in terms of font size and etc., and I trust them to have looked at the issue and come up with the solution that works for the majority of people.
One big difference between Godwiki and Wikipedia mobile sites is that on Wikipedia, tapping the Desktop link at the bottom of the page switches you to the real desktop-browser interface: impossibly tiny text, huge page layouts, the works, exactly as it looks in Chrome or Firefox on my computer. Personally I'd prefer that for Godwiki, if the user really wants a desktop interface they should get it. Better than this halfway-measures WPtouch abomination. But, again, that's completely out of our control I'm afraid. -- FeRDNYC (talk) 19:01, 28 August 2018 (UTC)

New convenience template for referencing Godville Blog posts

Since the Godville Blog is one of the few outside resources we ever cite as a reference on this wiki (see History, especially), and in the interest of encouraging more of that (where appropriate), I've created a new convenience template {{Cite blog}} for creating links to Godville Blog posts.

Just give it a post number, and it'll create a link to that post. If you leave out the post number, it'll just provide a general link to the blog (as seen in my opening paragraph):

Wikicode Renders as
{{Cite blog|117}} Godville Blog, post 117
{{Cite blog|116|To the Point}} Godville Blog, post 116: To the Point
{{Cite blog}} Godville Blog

More documentation, including an example of how the template can be used in creating citation references in articles, can be found on the template page. I may add additional parameters, like the ability to provide a title for the linked post, if there's any interest. -- FeRDNYC (talk) 13:50, 1 September 2018 (UTC)

Worth mentioning that GodDjonni  later added the ability to include post titles as well, for even nicer citation formatting. See the second example in the table above. -- FeRDNYC (talk) 23:04, 14 November 2018 (UTC)

Main Page styling tweaks

I just tweaked a bunch of style/layout code on the Main Page, all minor changes individually but they add up to a perceptible difference, hopefully for the better. In case anyone notices there have been changes and is curious what they were, details of the changes made:

  • Styling of section boxes cleaned up:
    • The heading is now "attached" to the border on three sides, and shares its color; hopefully that looks a bit cleaner
    • Some boxes had mismatched header/border colors, I've fixed all that up
    • The inner spacing/margins was also inconsistent between boxes, now they use identical outer margins and (except for 'Random Image') identical internal padding
  • Section colors updated:
    • 'Random Image' now matches: purple header/borders, light purple background (the background and borders were light blue, before)
    • 'Did You Know?' now has a color scheme of its own, in shades of orange (just because)
    • The blues of 'Intro...' are bluer, the greens of 'Featured...' are greener
  • The boxes no longer touch each other (it always looked weird with the different border colors)
  • 'rem' units are used much more extensively (rather than 'em' or 'px'), which should give more consistent scaling

I should really make a "Godwiki Announcements" template/page for this stuff, instead of stuffing it on the Talk page. -- FeRDNYC (talk) 00:51, 8 September 2018 (UTC)

Deprecation of Template:Pet

Following some discussion, we've decided to retire the {{Pet}} template, and instead use {{Monster}} for all Monster articles (including Boss-Monsters and Pets), so that improvements will be shared among the various types automatically.

I've placed the following notice at the top of the {{Pet}} documentation:

Important.pngThis Template Is Deprecated — USE {{Monster|pet=yes}} INSTEAD
{{Monster}} can now create Pet infoboxes (since all Pets are Monsters), it should be used instead of this template. The syntax is exactly the same, simply add |pet=yes to the code. So, for example...
OLD: {{Pet|image=example.jpg |description=A beast |levels=12-32 |totem=A Guild}}
NEW: {{Monster|image=example.jpg |description=A beast |pet=yes |levels=12-32 |totem=A Guild}}
See Template:Monster for full documentation.
This change will allow Pet articles to benefit from any improvements made to {{Monster}}.

I'll go through and convert the existing Category:Pets articles that use {{Pet}} over to {{Monster|pet=yes}} when I can (except for Alpha Centaur which is already converted), but please use {{Monster|pet=yes}} on new Pet articles (or updated ones), and feel free to convert any uses of {{Pet}} that you happen to come across. Thanks! -- FeRDNYC (talk) 00:52, 18 September 2018 (UTC)

Oh, and just for the record, |pet= can actually be set to any common positive-state value, so |pet=y, |pet=true, |pet=1, |pet=on, etc. are all just as good. -- FeRDNYC (talk) 00:55, 18 September 2018 (UTC)

Yellowtick.png Partly done — I'm now about 2/3 of the way through the Pet articles, 15 more to go. -- FeRDNYC (talk) 00:46, 19 September 2018 (UTC)

Tick.png Done — As of now, there are no articles on the wiki containing {{Pet}} transclusions. All Pet articles which feature an infobox are now using {{Monster|pet=yes}}. Please stick to that format when updating or adding new Pet articles. {{Pet}} should no longer be used. -- FeRDNYC (talk) 21:00, 20 September 2018 (UTC)

New, reformatted Omnibus List

Tick.png Done - The new Omnibus List design is live.

Previous update
See today's announcement at Talk:Omnibus List regarding a new version of the Omnibus List that's now in testing. It uses a modernized, responsive (size-adaptive) layout, to better fit screen sizes both large and small.
A testing/demo version of the new Omnibus List can be found at: User:FeRDNYC/Sandbox
Please leave any/all feedback at Talk:Omnibus List. -- FeRDNYC (talk) 01:00, 22 October 2018 (UTC)

-- FeRDNYC (talk) 13:42, 29 October 2018 (UTC)

Templates for he-or-she in articles

I had a bad idea, which I didn't think through, and took too far. So, here you go: a set of templates to allow The Great Random to choose the gender of the pronouns in your GodWiki writing!

In brief:

  • {{He or She}}: You'll get either He or She, chosen at kinda-random.
  • {{he or she}}: You'll get either he or she, chosen at kinda-random.

If you're with me so far, I'll assume you can extrapolate to understand the following templates too:

Every one of these can take the optional parameter |or=anything at all (as in, for example, {{he or she|or=1}}). If |or=anything is present, you'll instead get either he or she or she or he instead.

These are safe to use inline with combining forms. As in: Now {{he or she}}'s the winner! will produce the expected Now he's the winner! or Now she's the winner!.

There's more information (and an important note about an error I can't fix, which could cause you to panic unnecessarily) in the documentation for {{he or she}} (and if you can fix that error, brilliant!).

Great, Djonni, but what's the point?

Rather than every single wiki page using he (or even he or she) as a default choice, this can allow you to have the choice made for you as to what gender will be used in an article. These templates will consistently choose the same pronoun for a given page; you can be sure that it will consistently choose the same he, him, his, hero, etc, and won't switch unexpectedly between them. Then, if you copy-paste the same wiki-code into another page (or transclude it), it will be consistent with that page. Or, if you prefer, just use it to set an article gender once, and follow that gender choice through the rest of the text, whatever you like. It's a 50/50 diceroll for the gender of a page, to use however you want.

If you want more

I'm done with this collection of templates for now (it was a much larger set that I first expected already), but if people indicate they would like to use templates like this in a more use cases, these further templates could be made pretty easily:

  • {{God or Goddess}} and corresponding lowercases, plurals, and possessives (a full paradigm of 6 templates altogether)
  • The inverted order templates, for when you want to (e.g.) refer to a secondary character, he, that your primary protagonist, she, interacts with. These would be structured as {{She or He}}, etc. That set expands out to another 10 templates, plus 6 more for {{Goddess or God}}

I'll do the work if there's an indication that anyone likes this idea and would want to use them! :)

Dude, they're still binary genders.

Yeah, I know. All of Godville is binary gendered, and it's out-of-scope for me to fix that with a couple of cute little templates. Sorry. If you can propose a sensible way that I can promote inclusion of non-binary gender anywhere then I'm honestly all ears, I don't have any ideas, good or bad. But this at least offers something to erode the monotony of male-gendered content on the GodWiki. And hey, since I haven't built the {{she or he}} counterpart templates, I guess by default I'm also not promoting heteronormativity, so... Yeah, there's that.

Okay, I'm gonna go do something else now. If you have questions, comments, criticism, or requests, please let me know, here, here, or by direct message on Godville. -- Djonni (talk) 13:46, 1 November 2018 (UTC)

I've used the {{he or she}} family of templates in today's update to the Featured Article on the main page. It should read fairly seamlessly, and give a concrete example of how it might be used. You'll also note that when appearing on the Main Page and in the original Template:Featured page the templates render as he in both places. So speaketh the Great Random!
If there are any issues with these templates in the Featured Article at all, I encourage you to undo the edit where I put them in, and to explain the problem here for us. -- Djonni (talk) 10:56, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
Ideaicon.png Idea: It wouldn't be difficult to implement a parameter |daily=anything that will switch the gender every day. I kind of like that idea, it's perfect for use cases like the Main Page etc. -- Djonni (talk) 11:18, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
Tick.png Done The existing set of templates now support a parameter, |daily=anything, which switches the gender for the text each day. If you want to see it in action, the current (at the time of this note) Featured Article snippet on the Main Page is now using it, and so each day when the cache of the Main Page is refreshed, the text of the Featured Article will change gender. (I am here assuming that the cache is refreshed daily. That may not be the case; a couple of days observation will reveal the real behaviour.)
Smiley.png Thank you! Also, after some effort by the talented GodFeRDNYC , the error described in the docs is no longer an issue. I'll update the docs to explain how the template behaves before a new page is saved.
Finally, both of these changes make the creation of the inverted template set ({{she-or-he}} et cetera) a must. So I'll get to work on that too. (Probably before I update the docs, so I only gotta do that once.) I think I'll make them as essentially wrappers for the current set, though, using a new |reverse=anything option, so that improvements are less arduous. (Perhaps I should simply implement a master function ({{m-or-f}}?) which takes |male=him and |female=her text inputs? Then behaviour changes would be completely consistent to the entire set. Hmmm.) -- Djonni (talk) 13:15, 3 November 2018 (UTC)
Tick.png Done Instead of making an entire set of {{she or he}}, each of the gender-selection templates now supports the |invert=anything parameter to switch the focus of the gender when required to write sensible sentences. More detail and examples are given in the documentation for the {{m-or-f}} template which is now the basis of the whole set (and can be used to construct your own God-or-Goddess or any function you like. More info in the docs.)
Oh, and while writing the docs I realised I'd missed the possessive adjectives, so I've added {{his or her}} and {{His or Her}} to the set. So now, he can hold her hand in the moonlight, and make sense.
I'm going to start subtly including these templates in some key places around the GodWiki, especially for content in highly-visible places like the Main Page. But they're there for everyone's use, so if you want to, enjoy!
Please leave any relevant comments, questions, or requests here. For now, I consider this little template project concluded. :) Cheers -- Djonni (talk) 17:05, 3 November 2018 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── If you can propose a sensible way that I can promote inclusion of non-binary gender anywhere then I'm honestly all ears Personally I've become pretty big on singular "they" (and equivalent forms), for the general case of genderless pronoun usage. And it doesn't even require any templates! 😉

You do have to get used to reading things like, "The hero brushed themself off and continued on their way," which parses pretty weird at first. Also, holy wow do some people get irrationally pissed off at that usage, accusing you of everything from PC capitulation to eroding the fabric of society. But I say screw those people, since they insist on being {{dicks-and-or-vaginas}}. -- FeRDNYC (talk) 13:07, 4 November 2018 (UTC)

(Note that my example also requires the reader to consider "hero" a genderless noun, which is a topic about which there has been plenty of debate, and strong arguments made on both sides.) -- FeRDNYC (talk) 13:21, 4 November 2018 (UTC)
Oh I absolutely agree on "they", but as you also pointed out, it's not, erm... universally agreed upon. ;) The genderlessness of "hero" is also interesting, but since all of Godville differentiates between heroes and heroines, I feel like defaulting to 'hero' in the Goville context is defaulting to male-focussed language.
But! If any editor wishes to, they are welcome to use any language they like when describing or failing to describe the gender of any characters. Of course. :) -- Djonni (talk) 14:09, 4 November 2018 (UTC)
Cross.png "Not that there's anything wrong with that!"
Tick.png "No, of course not!" -- FeRDNYC (talk) 19:57, 5 November 2018 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── Whoops! Thanks for fixing that up WardPhoenix, not sure what happened with that heading while I was editing the transclusions. -- FeRDNYC (talk) 03:15, 19 February 2019 (UTC)

Guild infoboxes now automatically link to guild pages

Djonni had the excellent idea to have {{Guild}} generate links to guild pages automatically, instead of requiring a |stats= argument to provide the URL. So, that's now in place, and a lot of Guild articles should contain Guild Page: links that didn't have them before.

If for some reason you would prefer not to have that link shown on a guild article, passing a |stats=no argument to the {{Guild}} template will disable the automatic link generation.

And if the automatic link is generated wrong for some reason, |stats=url still works to manually supply a URL. (This also means that older guild articles that include a |stats=url argument will continue to function same as always. But |stats=url is no longer necessary to have a Guild Page: link show up.)

For most Guild articles, |stats= should not be included in the template arguments anymore. It's easier to just let the template generate the link automatically. (It's up to the editors of existing guild articles, whether you remove |stats= if it's already set.)

The other link parameter, |forum=url, is still required if you want to display a forum link. There's no way the template can automatically determine the correct URL for guild forums. -- FeRDNYC (talk) 12:53, 4 November 2018 (UTC)

A new link template for Guild pages

A new linking template, {{Guild link}}, has been added to the wiki. Use it to conveniently link to the official Godville page for the named Guild.

The same way: {{God|God name}} => GodGod name

You can now use: {{Guild link|Guild name}} => ⚜️ Guild name

(Hopefully the emoji shield in front of the Guild's name shows up everywhere. If not, in particular if you see an empty rectangle or any sort of question-mark symbol, please reply and let me know — include the details of what browser, device, operating system, etc. you're using.)

For example: {{Guild link|Bobius}} => ⚜️ Bobius 

There's also a plaintext mode, just add |plain=yes. {{Guild link|Eternal|plain=yes}} => Eternal .

(That's used in the {{Guild}} infobox template, to generate the Guild Page: links.)

Full details, including available parameters and more examples, are in the documentation at {{Guild link}}. -- FeRDNYC (talk) 15:53, 11 November 2018 (UTC)

And a new link template for Pantheon positions...

... just to complete the set!

{{Pantheon link}} can now be used to create a nicely formatted (or plain) link to a Pantheon on the Godville game page, and can optionally link directly to a specific position in that pantheon. It is expected to be used primarily on God or Guild pages, though be aware that if your pantheon position is volatile you may prefer not to link directly to it.

So now, just as {{God|God name}} => GodGod name
and {{Guild link|Guild name}} => ⚜️ Guild name,

now {{Pantheon link|pantheon}} => 🏆 Pantheon of Pantheon

And, more usefully, to link to a specific pantheon position:
{{Pantheon link|pantheon|15}} => 🏆 Pantheon of Pantheon: 15th.

As with the shield in {{Guild link}}, hopefully the trophy emoji appears correctly on any device. Should it not, reply here and let us know, with what browser, device, operating system, etc. you're using.

Some quick examples:

{{Pantheon link|taming|237}} => 🏆 Pantheon of Taming: 237th
{{Pantheon link|savings|20|text=short}} => 🏆 Savings: 20th
{{Pantheon link|wood|1102|plain=yes}} => Pantheon of Arkeology: 1102nd
{{Pantheon link|storytelling|51|text=none|plain=yes}} => 51st
[[Pantheon of Gratitude]]: '''{{Pantheon link|gratitude|123|text=none|plain=yes}}''' => Pantheon of Gratitude: 123rd

More details and examples are in the documentation at the {{Pantheon link}} page. Take a quick look there to see how to use it with any pantheon you'd like (though it best suits pantheons where your position is quite stable, as it can't update itself magically with your current position). If you have any questions not covered in the documentation, please feel free to ask, either here or on Template talk:Pantheon link. -- Djonni (talk) 13:16, 13 November 2018 (UTC)

Decorations were hung on the artifacts with care

Note: this template has since been renamed more generally as {{Decorate item}}

Inspired by the Halloween 2018 article's extensive use of example pumpkin-decorated artifact names, and by the fact that just writing e.g. "🎃golden pumpkin🎃" doesn't quite look right (the pumpkins are too close to the text), I've created a new set of templates specifically to produce these "decorated" strings, but with nicer formatting and line-wrapping protection.

The general-purpose template is {{decorate artifact}}, but more convenient wrappers have been created for known Godville decorations:

  • {{pumpkins}}: for decorating Halloween artifacts, e.g.
{{pumpkins|[[golden pumpkin]]}}🎃golden pumpkin🎃
  • {{party}}: for decorating celebration-related artifacts (like the anniversary specials), e.g.
{{party|[[3000-days gold coin]]}}🎉3000-days gold coin🎉

Templates for additional standard decorations will be added as they appear, or upon request. -- FeRDNYC (talk) 15:39, 7 November 2018 (UTC)

  • {{turkey}} was aded for Thanksgiving, and produces the first one-sided decoration:
{{turkey|[[roasted turkey]]}}🦃roasted turkey -- FeRDNYC (talk) 04:13, 4 December 2018 (UTC)

Default picture and auto-templating for Artifact and Monster infoboxes

Just like {{Equipment}} since its inception, {{Artifact}} and {{Monster}} now have default "generic" images that they will use whenever an image is not supplied via |image=filename. They will also (again just like {{Equipment}}) auto-template those articles as {{Picture}}-needed, adding them to the Pictures needed hidden category.

To avoid double-templating, I removed the manual {{Picture}} templating from any {{Artifact}}-using articles which already had it. (There were only two, Orange bag and Heart warmer.)

I tried to also get all of the {{Monster}} articles which contained manual {{Picture}} templates. There were far more of those, and I can't promise I didn't miss any. If you see any articles with two "Pictures needed" hatnotes (that's a message box at the top of the page), please edit the article source to remove the "{{Picture}}" template, as the infobox is now automatically supplying it. -- FeRDNYC (talk) 02:45, 23 November 2018 (UTC)

A humble proposal

This proposal and discussion has been archived to Talk:JanuWiki 2019/Archive.

Navbar line on navboxes

Now that we have a {{Navbar}} template (which I imported for use with the new {{Infobox}} code, though that isn't ready yet), we can have our Navbox templates show links to make them easier to modify. I've installed a Navbar on just {{Navboxauras}} for now, as an experiment. It's the three letters (for View • Talk • Edit) in the upper left corner that let you access the navbox template more easily:

Standard Auras Abstinence • Audibility • Baiting • Bliss • Confusion • Curiosity • Hoarding • Huckstering • Hunting • Immortality • Pacifism • Rage • Saving • Spookiness • Totemism • Trail
Event Auras Censorship • Overcensorship • ██████████‎
Historical Auras Reviving

Navbars on infoboxes tend to have fallen out of favor on MediaWiki sites (and I may still end up disabling them on our new infoboxes, before they're released), because they lead to people who want to update infobox data trying to edit the template code, when they should be editing the template transclusion in the article they're reading.

But with Navboxes, there's nothing to edit in the article, and you do need to edit the template code to modify them. So, it's a little different. There is still the danger, though, that the links will lead to inexperienced people messing up the Navbox templates more frequently. So I guess that's one reason for experimenting on just one template, first, to see if {{Navboxauras}} becomes the target of increased problem editing.

Let me know if anyone has any thoughts or objections. -- FeRDNYC (talk) 05:25, 25 November 2018 (UTC)

How about we have a version for Infoboxes that simply omits the 'edit' option? I think there's definitely merit in a clear link directly to the documentation and talk pages for an infobox. -- Djonni (talk) 16:16, 25 November 2018 (UTC)
Hmm, that's definitely an option technically, so yeah that could be one way to go. -- FeRDNYC (talk) 05:27, 26 November 2018 (UTC)

Preview Rollout of new Infoboxes

For a while now, I've been working on adapting the master {{Infobox}} code from the English Wikipedia for use here at the GodWiki, with the aim being to reimplement our Infoboxes. Using {{Infobox}} as the base template gives us access to more advanced features and formatting, and gives the infoboxes a more modern and cohesive look.

For this first round I'm focusing only on the three main infoboxes — certainly {{Town}} would also be updated, and most likely {{Guild}}, the user infoboxes, etc. as well, but that would all come later.

There's some initial discussion between Djonni and myself at Talk:Djonni#Preview Release! for anyone interested, but the real point is that I feel like the effort has progressed far enough to seek commentary and input from a wider audience.

Anyone interested is welcome to take a look at User:FeRDNYC/Sandbox, which contains a series of Artifact, Equipment, and Monster articles showcasing different possible forms of the new infobox templates for those articles. Where there are differences between them, or different versions of the same thing, it means that I'm trying out different possible formattings. As it says in the intro to that page, any and all input is welcome and encouraged — there's a link to the associated Talk page if anyone has any thoughts, positive or negative, on any or all of the infoboxes shown there.

Most helpful to me, at this stage, would be firm preferences of the form, "I like (this formatting) much better than (that formatting), you should definitely go with the first one." But, as I said, any input is welcome. -- FeRDNYC (talk) 03:50, 29 November 2018 (UTC)

Started.png Started
The new {{Town}} is now live. I spot-checked a bunch of articles and saw no obvious problems, but if you do, please feel free to use the "T" link in the bottom-right corner of the infobox to access Template talk:Town. You can report problems or anything else there.
If all goes well, I'll hopefully take at least {{Artifact}} and {{Equipment}} live later today, with {{Monster}} to follow shortly after. Thanks especially to GodDjonni  and GodSourceRunner , who provided invaluable feedback and advice during testing. -- FeRDNYC (talk) 17:59, 16 December 2018 (UTC)
Doing.png Doing...
{{Artifact}} and {{Equipment}} are also now updated. -- FeRDNYC (talk) 02:43, 17 December 2018 (UTC)
Tick.png Done
With the deployment of {{Monster}}, the four main article infoboxes are now updated and live. Please use the 'T' link at the bottom of any of them, to report problems on the associated Talk page. Other wiki infoboxes (guild/user-related) will be updated time permitting. -- FeRDNYC (talk)
The new infoboxes look SO GOOD in the wild! You put a lot of work and thought into them and it really shows. Thank you so much for your effort on these.
Amazing what a nice fresh coat of paint will do around the place! -- Djonni (talk) 06:26, 19 December 2018 (UTC)