Talk:JanuWiki 2019/Archive

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The original proposal and discussion from Talk:Main Page:

A humble proposal

TL;DR
I think the GodWiki's (just about) ready for an event around creating content and bringing new, inexperienced, dormant or aspiring content creators from the general player population across the threshold. I talk about the general concept, getting involved, what needs to happen first, but to cut to the actual plan, start here.

This edit by GodTerezka , nominating Special:WantedPages for the Feature Article, got me thinking.

A huge amount of effort (and thousands and thousands of Talk bytes) has gone into renovating and improving the GodWiki recently, after a long period of neglect as various major early contributors and editors became inactive over the years. A portion of the player base has definitely noticed this reinvigoration, and it might be my imagination but I feel like overall engagement with the wiki has been slowly creeping upwards.

As we know, the majority of active users are still doing one of two things: contributing to their own (guild/god/hero) pages, and contributing to the Omnibus & List pages. But non-trivial contributions to creative content on the GodWiki is less common, even among those of us who use the wiki on a regular or semi-regular basis.

So, here's my humble proposal for discussion and consideration: A GodWiki New Years Resolution — a January Content Drive.

I think the time is ripe for a little fanfare, relaunching a refreshed GodWiki to the player community at large. But first:

  1. There need to be enough people who think this is a good idea that it has enough momentum to carry it through the month (and doesn't rely on any one person too much, as real life always takes precedence);
  2. We need to agree that the GodWiki's ready to have a spotlight shone on it, which I think will need us to reach some milestones; and
  3. We need to agree on what we'd actually do! :)

If it went ahead, I would think of a content drive for January as an experiment, to see if doing this kind of thing regularly might work.

1. Enough people involved. By "involved", I mean in helping me to think through, preparing for (see next), and carrying an event across the month of January: shaking the pompoms and posting updates in the forums, keeping track of created content on a dedicated page (see below), just little things like that. The metric for this would be if folks are participating in this talk topic, to make suggestions, express interest or concerns, what have you (in other words, if you'd like this to happen, say so!). If this idea gets no love, I'll archive it myself and we can carry on with business as usual. I don't expect the sort of thing I have in mind would be very demanding of anyone's time, but if it's being driven by just one person and that person disappears unexpectedly for half of the month (if, say, for example, that hypothetical person were juggling two new jobs, settling into a new home, what have you), well, that would be a failed experiment.

2. Is the GodWiki ready: There are a few projects that are being tinkered with that would need to be in at least a final draft stage (with stable parameters and behaviour), otherwise we'll end up giving new editors a confusing, unstable experience, whereas I'm hoping to give people who're inexperienced contributors to the Wiki a great experience. Here's a non-canonical collection of what I've thought of as preconditions to aim for, in descending order of importance in my mind:

3. Yeah, yeah, what's the actual idea, Djonni? God you write a lot of bullsh... words sometimes: My first thought, though I'm certainly open to other ideas, would be to structure a content drive around a content theme. As I mentioned above, if it went well there's no reason that later content drives couldn't happen for different themes.

Some ideas for a theme for a January content drive:

  • Every heroine and hero's favourite theme: Beer! — Votes from: Djonni (talk)
  • Seasonally relevant: Winter — Votes from:
  • Insert additional ideas here

(Please feel free to expand the list or cast a vote above by adding your name. Pro-tip: Three tildes (~~~) will automatically insert your name.)

I imagine we would put together a wiki page for the event where we list wanted content within the scope of the theme, articles not yet created, stubs, and pictures needed. When someone creates or contributes content for the theme, we (or they themselves) can update the list giving the author recognition (more visible and permanent than the page's history or the recent changes list).

Here's a content survey of the proposed theme:

Beer
Monsters
Artifacts
Equipment
Quests
Other

Probably everything in Navbox taverns:

Loosely related

I imagine a few ways to keep the content drive going through the month.

1. The forums. Announcement of the content drive and, assuming there's any response, regular updates on what's going on. This would probably be restricted to Wiki Questions Thread. I'm happy to take lead on the forum launch, but I'm equally happy for someone else to if you're keen.

2. A tracking page. Designed and probably maintained by a handful of us. Text about the content drive, establishing expectations, emphasising wiki values (Be Bold, be respectful, write to your best ability — I don't want to exclude people for whom English isn't a first language, etc), pointers to how to get started (see guidelines and manuals Todo, above), and a table tracking progress. Perhaps use {{diaryquest}} for some dressing.

I imagine a table that might look a bit like this (up for discussion, of course):

January Content Drive (as at ~~~~~)
Type Article Created By
Monster Beer Golem
Monster Beerburglar GodDjonni (U • C • T)  ⚜️ The Forsakens Lament 
...

Other columns ("Additional edits by", etc) may become relevant as the month proceeds, but no need to overcomplicate it to begin with.

3. Stimulate some friendly inter-guild rivalry. I think there are some guilds that would be pretty enthusiastic about waving their banner on this! And so I think a guild leagues table would be fun. This might need some points system, perhaps loosely emulating the Pantheon of Adventure, details to be worked out. Something like this at the top of the page might be enough to get a few guild councils talking, and a few guild leaders rabble-rousing.

Guild Leagues (as at ~~~~~)
Guild Points Emblem
⚜️ Guild 1  100 [[File: Emblem from guild wiki page|5em|link=Guild wiki page]]
⚜️ Guild 2  80 [[File: Emblem from guild wiki page|2em|link=Guild wiki page]]
... 2em

4. Partial hijack of the Main Page. I thought that a hijacking of {{Mainpageintro}} for the month would help too, for those who come to the GodWiki but don't frequent the forums and don't read Talk pages.

Anyway, this is more than enough words for now. If you like the general idea, and would like to see it go ahead in any form, let us know here. Here, I'll make it easy — copy this: 👍 -- ~~~~, click this, and paste it at the very bottom of the page!

Side Job

As suggested by GodSourceRunner  here, there may be a side job to reward editors for quality edit[s] to improve articles written by others in the content drive.

  • This would probably require allocating articles to editors, to avoid collisions and give fair chance to those not always online/checking
  • What constitutes a quality edit is the sole discretion of the judge, GodSourceRunner , but guidelines will be clear
    • Preserve authors intent, respect authorial voice
    • Spelling, grammar, punctuation
      • Do we need an official style guide?
    • Technical edits (just fixing templates, categories, whitespace/layout, etc) are separate to these edits
    • Edit summaries are required
  • Contributing editors, participating editors, whatever we call them, would volunteer and nominate themselves
  • An author may request a review of their article, or an article may be chosen (by whom? SourceRunner, myself?) for review
    • Perhaps a {{Sign}} or two might be needed...

Perhaps other Side Jobs might stimulate some creativity (as well as some guild points and bragging rights). Some possibilities:

  • Create one full new article with image in each of the Monster, Artifact, and Tavern groups
  • Write an article that makes reference to 3 other content drive pages that you have either created or improved

Comments

  • I didn't get through nearly all of this yet, because it is very long, but also part of the reason is that I'm on my phone and it kind of sucks to read there. In the spirit of drawing people in and making things accessible, please reformat:
    • That box next to the intro, because 50% of the width of a phone screen is tiny and ugly
────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────
Tick.png Done, hopefully, ironically I'm also on my phone right now so can't properly check desktop 😇 --Djonni (talk) 00:38, 7 December 2018 (UTC)
────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────
  • The tables, which end up with columns too narrow to read.
────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────
Started, will look again in the morning --Djonni (talk) 00:38, 7 December 2018 (UTC)
────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────
I will sit down and read this later when I'm at my computer, but a lot of people only access the wiki via the phone app. -- FeRDNYC (talk) 00:04, 7 December 2018 (UTC)

Navbox and other technical details

A draft navbox for content drive pages, intentionally eye-catching:

🍺 JanuWiki 2019 🍺
🍺 En-Lager-ing the GodWiki 🍺
Complete article • ✒️ Stub • 📷 Picture required
Monsters Ale-chemist 🍻 Boozerker 🍻 Barbeerian 🍻 Beer Cub 🍻 Beer Golem 🍻 Beer Hunter 🍻 Beer Mugger 🍻 Beerburglar 🍻 Beerkat ✒️📷 🍻 Beerserker 🍻 Beerwolf ✒️📷 🍻 Boartender ✒️📷
Artifacts Bar tab 🍻 Beer-battered beer 🍻 Beer-scented soap ✒️📷 🍻 Bottle of beer from a wall 🍻 Bottle of domesticated beer 🍻 Bottle of holy ale 🍻 Dungeon brew 🍻 Exclamation pint 🍻 Fairy ale 🍻 Flask of witch's brewski 🍻 “Free beer” ticket 🍻 Instant beer tablet 🍻 Pint of no return 🍻 Portable beer cooler 🍻 Pot of strange brew 🍻 Strange brew 🍻 Vanishing pint 🍻 “Wish you were beer” postcard
Equipment Bartenderizer 🍻 Beer goggles
Quests Deliver some sour gnomish beer to the dark elves 🍻 Find out how to turn a golden brick into a pint of beer 🍻 Sing all of “99 bottles of beer on the wall!” 🍻 Sit in a tavern and write fake diary entries 🍻 Brew a storm in a teacup
Skills Beer belly ✒️📷
Taverns All Inn The Battle Toad Boatmurdered Caravanserai The Den of Iniquity The Drunken Clam Dunquestin The Glass Cannon Khaki-colored Dragon The Mended Drum Molotov's Cocktail Bar Progress Bar The Rumor Mill The Rusty Goblin Shepherd’s Stuff Space Bar The Sword & Sandal The Whinery

-- Djonni (talk) 07:35, 11 December 2018 (UTC)

A draft navbox for content drive pages, intentionally eye-catching

Well it's certainly eye-catching, I'll have to give you that. -- FeRDNYC (talk) 21:39, 14 December 2018 (UTC)
P.S> Are eyes supposed to bleed when caught? Asking for a friend. -- FeRDNYC (talk) 21:40, 14 December 2018 (UTC)
In all seriousness, though, due to the extremely high number of red links, specifically, I'm really not sure "yellow-tan-ish" is the best background color for the list cells. That's kinda hard for me to read, I can't imagine how it looks to someone with color-impaired vision. -- FeRDNYC (talk) 21:43, 14 December 2018 (UTC)
Message received! You make a good point about vision impaired users. Reprised the draft to tone down everything but the title area — still, I think, attention-getting without being so... exsanguinary. -- Djonni (talk) 17:44, 15 December 2018 (UTC)
Woohoo! Oh, contrast, how I've missed you! -- FeRDNYC (talk) 18:23, 15 December 2018 (UTC)

────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────

Draft hatnotes for works in progress or under review:

75px-WrenchTF2.png

JanuWiki Article Under Construction

🍺

This article is the target of the creative efforts of {{{author}}} as part of the JanuWiki 2019 Content Drive. If you have a [[technical edit]] to make, please write a clear edit summary (beginning with "Technical edit:"), or speak to a [[contributing editor]].
Last edit: 13 days ago by Djonni. See history.

Stub sign.png

JanuWiki Article Under Review

🍺

This article by {{{author}}} in being reviewed by {{{editor|editors}}} as part of the JanuWiki 2019 Content Drive. If you have a [[technical edit]] to make, please write a clear edit summary (beginning with "Technical edit:"), or speak to a [[contributing editor]].
Last edit: 13 days ago by Djonni. See history.

Perhaps another for completed articles whose points have been counted towards totals, so authors can easily see that they've been credited for the work. This type of this might be a nice image for that (or for some other use in the event), though the file at that link is not free for reuse (so can easily make something similar). -- Djonni (talk) 12:56, 16 December 2018 (UTC)

Main page banner

With the infobox rollout well underway and the preview versions no longer needed, I've repurposed User:FeRDNYC/Sandbox with a copy of the Main Page content plus an added event banner. Feel free to take a look, and if you have any specific content you'd like me to fill in, let me know. -- FeRDNYC (talk) 03:23, 17 December 2018 (UTC)

Hey that looks great! :) Love the big 🍺 floats! Might adapt that in hatnotes! :)
Taking a look on mobile, what are your thoughts on having it above the Welcome to the GodWiki panel? On most mobile screens it won't be visible in the first screenful, and I think if I didn't know it was there I'd scroll right past it without looking. But having it right at the top might be a bit too obnoxious...? -- Djonni (talk) 06:42, 19 December 2018 (UTC)
Eek! Thanks for prompting me to look at it on a mobile device — when developing I tested it using Chrome's responsive testing features to simulate a mobile browser, which has its limitations. One is that, while the width is representative, depending on the mode the height won't necessarily be, so it's hard to judge that stuff. I'll play with it a bit, see how it looks on the desktop interface if it's moved above the gray box. A third option is moving it inside the gray box, perhaps directly under the welcome sentence. (Another-other option is shrinking the welcome sentence, which I did a bit with the page redesign but it really is rather excessively large. Like, a third of the screen on my phone.)
But there's a bigger issue with the current design that I only caught when I looked at it on my phone: I intentionally designed the heading of the box and the emoji to be able to overlap each other, since it saved a bunch of space, let the heading format wider so it didn't wrap like crazy, and in my testing it all looked great. But on my phone, the combination of a completely different font and the much darker emoji Samsung uses turned out to be... poor. EXTREMELY poor.
So, I'll have to solve that, too. I may just apply some transparency to the emoji so they're less pronounced — either that, or put a semi-transparent background behind the text, one that'll be invisible against the box background but help the text stand out if it ends up overlapping the beer mugs. I'll figure something out. -- FeRDNYC (talk) 18:36, 19 December 2018 (UTC)

Going ahead

Following some great discussion about this on the forum, I've started the JanuWiki 2019 page with some draft layout and content! -- Djonni (talk) 07:48, 19 December 2018 (UTC)

Responses

  • As far as new infoboxes (I saw something go by about that), I can have those ready in, as you say, "final draft" form within 3-5 days at the outside. (Also add {{town}} to the list, because there's no point in a redesign without our most consistently used infobox.)
Regarding the main page, though, rather than changing the intro box, I'd suggest adding an additional banner above the featured/intro boxes, something that'll obviously stand out as different and changed. I honestly don't think most wiki visitors would even notice if the intro box changed. I can put structure together for that with only a day or two notice, if the content is relatively straightforward.
That's all I caught in a quick skim, like I said more later. -- FeRDNYC (talk) 00:13, 7 December 2018 (UTC)
So, I've had some positive responses, mostly through direct messages. I'm not sure if that bodes well enough to go ahead, but I'm going to continue the preparation just in case. I mean, what if it's a big flop and we create a better GodWiki for nothing?
Since there was no commentary or suggestions about the theme, I'm narrowing down on Beer. I think it offers a nice variety of article types, and is such a strong theme throughout Godville that, hopefully, everyone has an opportunity to contribute. With the theme including so many different kinds of monster, artifacts, even taverns, I don't think a creator needs to be a beer drinker (or a drinker at all) to find inspiration there. (If you don't think it offers you a chance to contribute, speak now or forever hold your peace.)
I've expanded the beer list above with a handful of extra items I'd missed, and pared off the list of winter items for the sake of focus. I'm going to work on guideline articles and concept for the tracking page. (If anyone has ideas or suggestions for either, they're welcome.)

I've trimmed the text above just a bit. Any comments on this plan are still welcome below. -- Djonni (talk) 07:35, 11 December 2018 (UTC)

Responses take 2

👍 -- SourceRunner (talk) 02:40, 19 December 2018 (UTC)


New article templates

So, GodFeRDNYC  has started drafting a template that could be used for new articles at User:FeRDNYC/Template Sandbox.

If I understand right, the intention is that a new article could be created with just {{subst:New artifact article}} (or similar) copy-pasted in, and the creator will then have a pre-fabbed skeleton that they can put flesh on. There's a bit of a tightrope to walk, of course, between giving people something to work with and making people feel like they need to stick to a formula, but that aside I'm really excited by this idea!

Talk about the specifics of the template is best done at User talk:FeRDNYC/Template Sandbox, but since it's relevant to the experience of new users for JanuWiki, and very relevant to the text used on the JanuWiki 2019 in the getting started section, I wanted a talk topic in it here as well. -- Djonni (talk) 15:15, 21 December 2018 (UTC)

Help resources

Along the lines of recent conversations about points of contact, the page currently lists one principle as "Do your best and ask for help". The earlier "Be Bold" entry even links to wikipedia, but "ask for help" is just left to hang there. I think that should come with some strong guidance as to how.

Whether it's a pointer to Help:Requests, a pointer to this talk page, or whatever... doesn't matter, just something. (And probably only one something, since too many options can be worse than none at all, and it'll be easier on everyone to keep things centralized at wherever place they end up.) -- FeRDNYC (talk) 15:28, 21 December 2018 (UTC)

Yeah, I think Help:Requests will be the best possible clearinghouse for all such "I need help" stuff. That opening part of the page is one of many I've not had a chance to flesh out yet... 😅 -- Djonni (talk) 19:26, 21 December 2018 (UTC)

Main Page banner

So take a look at User:FeRDNYC/Sandbox now. I had to wrestle endlessly with it to get it looking right on mobile, and ended up having to dump the "large emoji behind the text" idea since nothing I tried worked out readable in mobile browsers. But the placement coupled with the reduced size of the intro text (which I feel is overdue anyway) gets it visible without scrolling on my phone, and personally I'm comfortable with putting it there. I need to reduce the second-line gray box text a little more simply because it's too close to the first-line size now and they compete more than they should, but other than that it feels ready. Just needs whatever content should go inside.

(Not that there's any rush, still over a week left before the start. Though we could place the banner a few days early, basically as soon as the event page is complete. Which I guess is still in flux mostly because it (needs? might need?) page-creation links / preload content somewhere? As you can tell I'm completely 100% up on the details of this plan!) -- FeRDNYC (talk) 09:09, 22 December 2018 (UTC)

I think making the banner live a few days early is a great idea :) I've been thinking about content a bit.
Banner idea
  • JanuWiki 2019 content drive starts January 1!
  • We're getting creative around the theme of Beer!
  • Join the fun, see what's happening, and let the creative juices flow!
If we want to get cute with it, a countdown timer something like this:
11 DAYS TO GO!
which can double as a countdown to the end of JanuWiki too. 😊 -- Djonni (talk) 07:54, 23 December 2018 (UTC)
Mmm, "creative" two bullet points in a row feels repetitive, I'd re-word one of those two, and tone down all the exclamation points. Other than that I think it's great. Countdown seems like a cool idea, too. Preliminarily implemented (with days + hours) at User:FeRDNYC/Sandbox.
  • Come January 1, 2019 the timer will automatically switch to "Ends in:" with a green countdown after it instead of the current red one.
  • The timer will display things like "2 days 1 hours", "1 days 1 hours", and "0 days 1 hours"... and I am personally fine with that. (Especially since the last one will only be visible for 1 hour.)
I have to decide what to do with the production version of this, now. I guess I'll put it in a generically-named template {{Godwiki event banner}}, so it can be reused/repurposed instead of being stuck undeletable long after the event's over. -- FeRDNYC (talk) 22:32, 23 December 2018 (UTC)
Tick.png Done The banner now lives in that template, and can be updated there. My Sandbox page merely transcludes it into its copy of the Main Page content.
P.S: The countdown will format alongside the bullet list on the desktop (with enough width), below the list on mobile/narrow. -- FeRDNYC (talk) 22:40, 23 December 2018 (UTC)
It's probably worth writing a formatting template that handles plural-vs-singular, and even omission for the 0 case. (So {{something|N|day}} might output "2 days " for N > 1, "1 day " for N = 1, and "" for N = 0.) But it's not important enough to be an urgent need, and that template feels worth taking the time to design correctly instead of just rushing in and slapping it together haphazardly. Questions of exactly how to properly handle spaces, commas, and pluralization all make it deceptively complex to design correctly. The Other Wiki might have something we can borrow that's already been (over)designed to account for all that. -- FeRDNYC (talk) 14:52, 24 December 2018 (UTC)
To continue the caching conversation from the forum, I just realised that the Main Page is re-cached frequently, whenever the random picture changes. So it's worth us trying the banner in situ there before making any decisions about how the countdown timer is working :) -- Djonni (talk) 15:53, 25 December 2018 (UTC)
I've made changes to adjust the hour, day, and year by 2 hours to meet UTC+2 (at least I think I've got it correct), and to switch between singular and plural for "day/s" and "hour/s"... Pending my logic and implementation being correct (ahem), I feel like this could go live on the Main Page any time :) -- Djonni (talk) 16:29, 25 December 2018 (UTC)

Collapsible table captions

Because of the way they collapse, collapsible tables with captions kind of suck (MediaWiki's fault) — just try collapsing one with a multi-word caption (especially) to see what I mean. (But it sucks even on the one-word captions.) It can be made tolerable, by adding a style="min-width:20em;" (or so) on the table, since the caption will collapse to that width if it's set — just have to be careful to keep it under people's mobile screen width, so typically 30em or even better 25em max. That being said, all of the collapsible tables (the lists of "target" articles) here are pretty short, enough that the value of making them individually collapsible is debatable... just dropping the mw-collapsible wouldn't be all that bad either, IMHO. -- FeRDNYC (talk) 15:16, 30 December 2018 (UTC)

In a recent edit (lost track) I took the suggestion and removed the mw-collapsibles. If you spot others that I missed, delete 'em :) -- Djonni (talk) 20:56, 30 December 2018 (UTC)

Some quick docs feedback

Some thoughts, purely IMHO for your consideration and to do with as you see fit.

  • JanuWiki 2019 is already getting sort of terrifyingly long, and may scare people off. It's worth considering whether that needs to all be on the same page, or which of it needs to be there at all. (That TOC is especially intimidating. Altho mobile users don't see it, which is a double-edged sword.)
  • By the same token, JanuWiki 2019#Technical Stuff's links section is verbose enough to lose people, and probably needs more tabular examples rather than in-prose examples. They're tricky to follow.
  • Please don't even cover <strike>...</strike> in the formatting discussion. Anyone who doesn't already know how to do it doesn't need to.
  • The FAQ answers could also be way more brief. One sentence is a perfectly acceptable length for an answer to a question, if it can be answered in one sentence. And, like, there's no point in overexplaining things like The only requirement to join in on JanuWiki is a heroine or hero of at least level 15, which is when you gain access to the GodWiki. — it is not relevant or important to the content drive. -- FeRDNYC (talk) 23:00, 23 December 2018 (UTC)
Noted, and agreed. I've been writing stuff in small chunks and it's easy to lose track of how small chunks snowball. Will do some machete-ing and cut it to size. :) -- Djonni (talk) 16:33, 25 December 2018 (UTC)

That TOC is especially intimidating. Altho mobile users don't see it, which is a double-edged sword.

I've been thinking. At one point you found a CSS class that would appear only on mobile (or was it the other way around...?). In short, is there a CSS class that find be used to manually make a highly simplified TOC four mobile views? 🤔 It's certainly not vital, but you're right about that double-edged sword, and perhaps one of those edges could be bluntened... -- Djonni (talk) 09:16, 27 December 2018 (UTC)
That's a good question, I'd have to check whether that's still possible with the death of the default mobile skin. (And I will, shortly.) Though, another option would just be to set the page up __NOTOC__, and use the manual TOC for all skins — that way, people wouldn't be seeing different TOCs depending which of the various skins they're using. -- FeRDNYC (talk) 04:35, 29 December 2018 (UTC)
Mmm, nope, I was afraid of that. The default mobile skin is now Vector, same as the desktop skin. It just uses some media queries to format things differently on narrow screens. But there are no longer any classes present on mobile but not desktop, or vice versa. (Except when using the WPTouch skin, my "switch back to mobile skin" trick still works there since it's the only skin that's different from the other views.) So, my suggestion about using the manual TOC for all skins/views would be the only option, probably. -- FeRDNYC (talk) 05:21, 29 December 2018 (UTC)

Event hatnotes

I've been contemplating these (ref Talk:Main Page#Navbox and other technical details), and I think it's the right way to manage JanuWiki content pages. I'd like to get them up so that we can start incorporating them into magic links.

User:FeRDNYC was clever to put {{Godwiki event banner}} into a generic name that can be reused for future events. I think it's wise to do the same for the event Hatnotes. So: {{Event construction}}, {{Event review}}? Is there a better name to use for these? -- Djonni (talk) 17:02, 25 December 2018 (UTC)

Decision made: {{Godwiki event construction}} and {{Godwiki event review}} created and hopefully ready to use. Will write a brief explanation and instructions on the page tomorrow! -- Djonni (talk) 21:04, 26 December 2018 (UTC)
Hey, speaking of, I just thought to take a look at those on mobile, and they might need some adjustment. The large image/emoji end up being kind of overpowering there. (Same problem I ran into with the main page event banner.) If you want I can rebuild them as flexboxes, so the graphics and the text block will stay separate from each other instead of all wrapping together. (Most likely it'd go left-graphic, textbox, right-emoji, stacked vertically under the heading.) They'd still be a bit long vertically, tho. -- FeRDNYC (talk) 04:56, 29 December 2018 (UTC)
Mmm, you're right, the {{God}} template and the right-float emoji also lead the top area text to be sparse and broken up. Trying them as flexboxes might work, the text can be trimmed if they're too long. We can also just reduce the emoji size, like you did on the banner. -- Djonni (talk) 17:08, 29 December 2018 (UTC)
Yeah, given that it's using {{Sign}} which isn't trivially flexbox-able, I'd suggest shrinking the left-hand image a little (even using |imgwidth= if need be), and making the emoji small and part of the title. Then the text can fill the width. I'd also set the width to 100%, since for mobile it'll need all the space. -- FeRDNYC (talk) 00:51, 30 December 2018 (UTC)
I made some edits to {{Godwiki event review}}, see what you think (or feel free to revert). Naturally, on my phone the title is still juuuuust too-wide enough that the emoji ends up wrapping onto a second title line all by itself. You can never win with web-formatting. -- FeRDNYC (talk) 09:28, 30 December 2018 (UTC)
(And I'd meant to offer: If you want me to make those same changes to {{Godwiki event construction}}, or to update both with any edits, let me know.) -- FeRDNYC (talk) 12:13, 30 December 2018 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── Yes please! Your mobile width is sightly less than mine, which I think makes it a better test for these. The changes look good — if you think the title text could be trimmed (or shrunk) such that layout is better for a narrower width, go ahead.

I also realised that for reasons unknown I actually hadn't used {{god}} in ... review}}, which would have been confusing as I kept insisting that was the justification for {{subst:ing the revision author 😅 Fixed that, and added |plain=yes to reduce ugliness. -- Djonni (talk) 12:27, 30 December 2018 (UTC)

I just updated {{Godwiki event construction}} to match {{Godwiki event review}} in terms of sizing / image placement / etc — with the shorter titles you set, both juuust make it without wrapping on my phone, so that's cool. (The "Last edit" line still wraps depending on the length of the username — yours no, mine yes — but that's not so bad.) So I think they're good now.
The size/length seems fine on mobile, "construction" is about half the screen height in Chrome (meaning the page canvas, not counting browser headers and etc.); "review" is just over 1/3. I think that's reasonable. -- FeRDNYC (talk) 14:53, 30 December 2018 (UTC)
One thing that did occur to me, reading {{Godwiki event construction}} — it kind of switches from hatnote to instructions like halfway through, which is a bit unusual. IOW, the first sentence is a notice for people reading the article, to let them know what's going on... and then the next sentence/two are instructions for the editor of the article, instead of the readers. ...I don't really have any thoughts on that, I just wanted to point it out since it struck me when reading it with my "wiki reader" hat on. -- FeRDNYC (talk) 14:57, 30 December 2018 (UTC)

Side job quest boxes

In case it's useful (just because I noticed some Side Jobs in the JanuWiki material), {{Diaryquest}} now finally has that Side Job mode I've been procrastinating on for months. -- FeRDNYC (talk) 20:02, 30 December 2018 (UTC)

I saw the edits, was going to take a closer look if it's ready to use! (Judging from the edit comment I figured it was somewhere from readyish to ready enough.) It'll... probably come in handy? Haven't seen that far ahead yet, heh... I'll make sure User:SourceRunner knows it's there too! -- Djonni (talk) 20:55, 30 December 2018 (UTC)
Yeah, I think it's now 100% functional, that "come back to this" edit-comment is a code issue (I just copy-pasted a whole block of code into two different {{#if:}} blocks, because getting the conditionals right was too hard for right then), nothing to do with functionality. I mentioned it at Talk:Side Job too, so if anything is not ready with it, hopefully someone will point it out. -- FeRDNYC (talk) 21:48, 30 December 2018 (UTC)

Preloads

Re: the current version of the {{Monster}} preload, which reads:

{{monster
| image = <!-- An image filename (e.g. Example_picture_name.jpg). If the filename doesn't exist, this gives you a link to upload it. -->
| class = <!-- Monster's class. E.g., Humanoid, Troll, Giant mecha -->
| description = <!-- Brief description of the monster -->
| habitat = <!-- E.g., Subterranean swamps, Cookie jars, Behind waterfalls -->
| latin = <!-- Optional Latin-style species name. E.g., Exterreri exsomnum -->
| boss = <!-- Optional, 'yes' if this is a boss-monster -->
  | boss-type = <!-- Type can be: above, 1ab, 2ab, 3ab, tb, dig, quest, or dungeon. Look at Template:Monster for more info. -->
}}

"Instructional" comments might be better than "documentation" comments. I'd say lose all the "Optional"s, for starters.

  • The |image= info is pretty good
  • But with |boss= and |pet= I'd go with Insert 'yes' if the article is about a (boss|tamable) monster.
  • With "|boss-type=", maybe Insert one of: above, dig, quest, 1ab, 2ab, 3ab - see Template:Monster for details. (They don't need to know the alternate/other options.)
  • I don't know if "description" really needs a redundant comment at all. Maybe literally just Briefly.
  • Ditto "Class", "Habitat"... they'll figure it out, or leave it blank if they don't.

-- FeRDNYC (talk) 20:28, 30 December 2018 (UTC)

If we want to stress that fields are optional, the intro block-comment can always make a blanket mention that leaving any infobox field blank is OK. -- FeRDNYC (talk) 20:30, 30 December 2018 (UTC)
Please, be bold! :) I'm not precious about owning all this, I'm more than happy for another set of eyes/fingers/neurons to improve my efforts. -- Djonni (talk) 20:51, 30 December 2018 (UTC)
OK, cool thanks. It was more a matter of not wanting to trample on your fingers as you're actively still writing (and also because you are still writing additional preload subpages)... I'll make a pass over all of them in a couplethree hours, look for opportunities to harmonize/consolidate. -- FeRDNYC (talk) 21:42, 30 December 2018 (UTC)
BOLD like a brand new magic marker. I made some pretty sweeping changes to JanuWiki 2019/Monster preload, still deciding myself what I think of them. So, in return, Be Savage — and once we decide we're closing in on what we want it to be, I'll edit the Equipment and Artifact preloads to fit the same basic mold. -- FeRDNYC (talk) 03:23, 31 December 2018 (UTC)
To see how it went, I simulated your expansion of monster into artifact. The text is definitely clearer, my concern is that it's too much reading now... I'm worried that "THIS is a QUICK start?? Forget it!" could be the first reaction.
I've run out of time for now, but we should try some fresh eyes and cut it down as much as possible, I think. Probably useful to point people back to the text on JanuWiki 2019 as much as possible. -- Djonni (talk) 10:43, 31 December 2018 (UTC)
I completely agree, and I'm almost tempted to say there should be two versions of each preload: The "beginner" version with copious inline comments, and an "advanced"/"normal" version with **JUST** the boilerplate content and NO comments. Because there's just no way for one preload [per type] to be all things to all people. But how to choose? Upon which side of that divide is it better to err? These are the questions which only the audience for these could answer, but almost by definition... aren't really able to answer, either. -- FeRDNYC (talk) 15:27, 31 December 2018 (UTC)